Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Dorek]

"Starting to believe" =P. So, no factual basis, just hope.

And maybe it is, who knows, that would be cool. Didn't somebody throw out the possibility of Jurassic World sets? Given that sort of corporate synergy, it seems likely. But, you never know...

[Jakura Nuva]

How wasn't it?

Anyway, I just heard that more Lego sites are starting to believe that the October reveal will be BIONICLE!!!! I really, really, really, really hope that this is true. But still, October is so far away....

It was a serious question - I haven't seen it yet. And anyways, we were told to discuss this in another place, not here.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I've accepted that the evidence points towards a reboot, but I'm still not rooting for one, nor have I dismissed the possibility of one. A time skip would be nice.

I agree that the evidence points towards it, and I won't be too bothered, but I'm still hoping we're wrong.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Oh, sorry Jakura Nuva. I thought it was a sarcastic question.

But yeah, these new sets could be Jurassic World. But still....something in my gut is telling me, no matter how much I try to disprove the Bionicle theory, it will be Bionicle.

[Jakura Nuva]

Oh, sorry Jakura Nuva. I thought it was a sarcastic question.

But yeah, these new sets could be Jurassic World. But still....something in my gut is telling me, no matter how much I try to disprove the Bionicle theory, it will be Bionicle.

It's fine, bro ;)

I also voiced that the sets could be Jurassic World. It certainly will have an appeal to fans, so it could be what they're unveiling...

[davidr]

I still see a huge problem with reboot - they revealed the greatest mystery in old Bionicle. We know that these new sets are original Toa Mata/Nuva. But they shouldn't be in Matoran Universe, because we already know that it is a huge robot. This was a central point in the story and it would inevitably have to play some role in a reboot, it is just too huge to ignore. TLG would have to create a completely new location in order to just avoid any plot parts where this could be brought up. We know that Mata Nui studied alien planets, but Toa were only in MU and on Spherus Magna. Possible continuation will naturally be on Spherus Magna, this world is almost unexplored. In a reboot they can use either some alien planet, which then needs some good explanation, Matoran Universe, which is both explored (so new locations will be necessary) and already known to be a giant robot, or the last possibility I see is Spherus Magna, but this possibility is not favoring a reboot because they can simply make a distant continuation without making difficult explanations why they are here.

Toa in general should normally be in MU, but MU is much less interesting place than it was before 2008 (to some degree less interesting), new locations inside MU are necessary, but it doesn't adress the point that MU is a giant robot, it will be kind of like reading a thriller and knowing identity of the murderer from list of characters.

• The characters resemble their original forms (including Kanohi, colors, and several of their tools/weapons).
  
• They are accompanied by small "defenders" (resembling Matoran) and are facing a primal force of destruction/corruption (the skull spiders, which seem to play a similar role to Krana or infected masks).
  
• The art we've seen, along with the golden masks included with each Toa, suggest a mask quest. A reboot makes more sense business-wise, since the bloated story of the original was one of the biggest factors contributing to the theme's decline, and connecting the new story with that would surely result in the same effect over time (don't forget that Bionicle's attempts at a soft reboot in 2004, 2006, and 2009 were largely unsuccessful at staving off that decline).
  
• Greg Farshtey has stated that he would personally rather have a reboot than a continuation, and while his inclusion on the new theme's story team is uncertain, it would not be unlikely given his ties to the original theme's story as well as his position as one of TLG's top employed writers.
  

That all points to a reboot. Meanwhile, we've seen nothing that would hint at a continuation. So while either option is still possible until we actually know exactly what the story will be, I think expecting a continuation at this point is just setting yourself up for disappointment.

Toa look like their Mata forms, because TLG wants them to look like that - they will look nostalgic, this is the only reason there, any story explanation is secondary to this as was the case of Tahu Stars. TLG wants them to look like this, so some story explanation will be crafted why they look so.

The point about small sets doesn't really make much sense to me, because in 2001 there were only Matoran from promo action in McDonald's and since then there were normally sold small sets in 2002/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 and Stars which were the only sets in 2010.

I don't understand business, but they already named it Bionicle and main characters are Toa Mata/Nuva, which itself creates connection to the old Bionicle. These soft reboots could've been unsuccesful because they didn't have the mysterious spark that 2001-3 had, 2009 was close to it, but they cut it off as soon as it started and we didn't get any Bionicle dinosaurs as we deserved.

From my understanding ,GregF said that picking the story up where it ended isn't a possibility. But he can be inclined to a reboot, that Q&A topic grows faster than I can read it.

I hope this post makes sense, I am obviously biased, but I hope you can see my point.

[Still Raindrop]

NOOOO!! We all haven't agreed on a reboot!! A time skip would feel to strange. I get that the Bionicle characters live for thousands of years, but come on. This needs to be restarted, so that Lego can learn from the mistakes of the original story. Not just say, "Oh, it all happened, but it doesn't matter. Just forget it." THAT"S BASICALLY THE SAME THING AS A REBOOT!!!!

It's been said before, but I think the difficulty with a hard robot would be that they'd have to find a way to make it fresh, possibly even changing the setting. I mean, it doesn't seem likely that they'd reuse the "island on top of a giant robot" again--the cat is out the bag. I'm sure they could make something great, of course; I would just wonder how they would change it. But, really we have absolutely no way of knowing either way at this point, with just one leaked picture to go on.

Plus, I hardly think that it's necessary for everyone in this thread to agree on what we think/hope will happen. Speculation is part of the fun at this point, I think--especially since, without speculation, we'd have nothing to talk about at all. It's not as though our agreement would have any effect on how the story actually goes, anyway.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Mariko

[Lind Whisperer]

• The characters resemble their original forms (including Kanohi, colors, and several of their tools/weapons).
  
• They are accompanied by small "defenders" (resembling Matoran) and are facing a primal force of destruction/corruption (the skull spiders, which seem to play a similar role to Krana or infected masks).
  
• The art we've seen, along with the golden masks included with each Toa, suggest a mask quest. A reboot makes more sense business-wise, since the bloated story of the original was one of the biggest factors contributing to the theme's decline, and connecting the new story with that would surely result in the same effect over time (don't forget that Bionicle's attempts at a soft reboot in 2004, 2006, and 2009 were largely unsuccessful at staving off that decline).
  
• Greg Farshtey has stated that he would personally rather have a reboot than a continuation, and while his inclusion on the new theme's story team is uncertain, it would not be unlikely given his ties to the original theme's story as well as his position as one of TLG's top employed writers.
  

Almost all of your points could fit just as well into a continuation as well as a reboot.

• The characters resemble their original forms (including Kanohi, colors, and several of their tools/weapons).
  
• 
  
• They were wearing Adaptive Armor. Armor that can adapt. And, if LEGO is trying to make a success of this, it makes sense that they would start out with armor that matches the original success.
  
• 
  
• They are accompanied by small "defenders" (resembling Matoran) and are facing a primal force of destruction/corruption (the skull spiders, which seem to play a similar role to Krana or infected masks).
  
• 
  
• Well, why would there not be Matoran in a continuation? Bara Magna was a bit of a desert, sure, but but it certainly had plenty of Glatorans and Agori running around. And skull spiders? Sounds just like something out of the barely-even-touched-upon pen jungle moon/chunk of shattered planet Bota Magna.
  
• 
  
• The art we've seen, along with the golden masks included with each Toa, suggest a mask quest. A reboot makes more sense business-wise, since the bloated story of the original was one of the biggest factors contributing to the theme's decline, and connecting the new story with that would surely result in the same effect over time (don't forget that Bionicle's attempts at a soft reboot in 2004, 2006, and 2009 were largely unsuccessful at staving off that decline).
  
• 
  
• Agreed, there is most likely a mask quest. Probably centered around the Mask of Life. Which Mata Nui's spirit is still inside of. And it wasn't that the story was bloated, it was that they thought that their core audience had grown up. Which they mostly had. And, I'll be fair, the Glatoran saga was interesting, but they were clearly starting to need ideas faster than they had them. All these years later, they've had plenty of time to come up with new ones. Although I could say something about spiders and originality...
  

My apologies if I come off as being abrasive, it's been a long day.

[dviddy]

• Agreed, there is most likely a mask quest. Probably centered around the Mask of Life. Which Mata Nui's spirit is still inside of. And it wasn't that the story was bloated, it was that they thought that their core audience had grown up. Which they mostly had. And, I'll be fair, the Glatoran saga was interesting, but they were clearly starting to need ideas faster than they had them. All these years later, they've had plenty of time to come up with new ones. Although I could say something about spiders and originality...
  

No, TLG employees at conventions have actually used the word "bloated" and "confusing". It had nothing to do with the original audience growing up- the whole cyclical nature of the main characters existed almost solely to grab a new audience of kids each time. Fans were constantly aging in and out of the line (which is why target audiences tastes changed so much from 2001 to 2009 as well).

[Clone 01354 Productions]

I would love for a reboot, because the start of Bionicle, as I said before, felt primitive, tribal in a way. Out in nature, no real cities, just forts and huts, with magical guardians to ward off evil spirits. Not people shooting monsters.

[TheGreatSpirit]

We interrupt this debate to bring you some classic Bionicle Media

[NOSTALGIA WARNING]

Edited August 31, 2014 by TheGreatSpirit

[bacem]

I would love for a reboot, because the start of Bionicle, as I said before, felt primitive, tribal in a way. Out in nature, no real cities, just forts and huts, with magical guardians to ward off evil spirits. Not people shooting monsters.

but, that was actually the essence of bionicle? i'm sure that if it's a reboot, the concept won't be too far from that.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

It was the essence of Bionicle. This was a toy line that broke away from others, which used guns and lasers and spaceships. What we got was a race of primitive, alien beings, and it was great. Also, that is one problem that I agree with, in terms of a reboot: we know all of the important things. We know that they were inside a robot, that the Matoran lived inside of Mata Nui to keep him running. The original feel can never be preserved, knowing that that is what happens. Really, I'm torn. Continuation would seem pretty lame, and would just feel like them trying to stretch out the story. But a reboot could only work if it is very different: new characters, new storyline, new motifs. And if any of those are changed, then it is not Bionicle.

By the way, I am furious, because in early June, I sold my entire Bionicle collection, of around 45 guys, for only $70. All of my Rahkshi, my Lhikan, my Hordika, all gone! In all fairness, 12 of them were Glatorian, but still. And then, one month after I sold them, I read about its likely return. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!

[Chimaninja454]

but, that was actually the essence of bionicle? i'm sure that if it's a reboot, the concept won't be too far from that.

but, that was actually the essence of bionicle? i'm sure that if it's a reboot, the concept won't be too far from that.

Me too, because it would be fresh.. :)

[Lord-Vorahk]

I always thought that the tribal aspect was a little awkward. They always felt much more at home in Metru Nui, and, of course, that was wholly intentional.

[SneakySqeaky]

I've been out a few days. I get the sense that I mised some updates. Can someone please fill me in on what's news we got in the last two or three days? Thanks ^_^

[Kalhiki]

I've been out a few days. I get the sense that I mised some updates. Can someone please fill me in on what's news we got in the last two or three days? Thanks ^_^

Not much, really. The only thing that's new is that we have prices. Defenders are all $10, Gali is $15. I don't think we got prices for the other sets, but we can infer Pohatu and Lewa are $15, and the others are in the $20-$25 dollar range.

Oh, and Lego will be revealing a new theme at New York Comic Con. They handed out tickets to BZPower. Being it's the largest Bionicle fan site, people are speculating the new theme is Bionicle. But then it was suggested it could be Jurassic World sets, which would make more sense for Comic Con.

[Still Raindrop]

Also, that is one problem that I agree with, in terms of a reboot: we know all of the important things. We know that they were inside a robot, that the Matoran lived inside of Mata Nui to keep him running. The original feel can never be preserved, knowing that that is what happens. [/size]Really, I'm torn. Continuation would seem pretty lame, and would just feel like them trying to stretch out the story.

One of the possibilities that has been suggested is a continuation set far enough in the future that the 2009-2011 stuff doesn't matter. This would be similar to a hard reboot, yes, but it would also mean that you wouldn't have to deal with the problem of setting--we were, after all, given an entire planet to explore, and it had a much less advanced sci-fi feel than the Matoran Universe. Who knows--maybe a group of Matoran/Agori found an island to live on and named it Mata Nui, keeping the Mask of Life there. The description wouldn't need to have anything more than extremely minimal backstory (if any at all, other than that the Great Spirit is housed in a mask), giving a fresh start. This isn't likely to be what we'll get, but it does show that a continuation doesn't need to mean what you think.

[Chro]

A continuation could be done if past content was "dumbed down", retconned or even simply ignored.

Continue the story but ignore the story that it's continued from?

Oh, and by the way, I hope that the special armor on all of the Toa is gold, not yellow. Because yellow on Kopaka, Toa of Ice? Ewwww.....But anyway, the yellow just stands out way too much.

It is gold.

Uh, I'd find poorly executed jokes a lot more offensive than some of the best years of BIONICLE, but hey...

I concur.

[Jakura Nuva]

Continue the story but ignore the story that it's continued from?

It is gold.

I concur.

Uh... Yeah. You can continue the story while ignoring the past. It's not that difficult.

Example: the six mighty Toa, once brave warriors from another land, now face a greater menace than ever before (etc.)

See? New story a continuation without paying a huge amount of attention to the old one. Now, I never said it would be the preferred or even logical course of action, but it's still a possible one.

[davidr]

About the prices. What if they will be multiples of 4, not 5? So it will be 8€, 12€, 16€, 20€ (or dollars, simpler to write € on my keyboard). 12 and 16 seems like a better price point for Toa than 15 and 20, when all previous 20€ sets were visibly much bigger than normal Toa sets can be. And defender sets can certainly fit in 8€ price. LOSS looks like he can be both 20 or 25€ though, I can't see enough details.

Only franchises I dived deep into are Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Bionicle. So LOTR will be my example now. The creation and begining of LOTR world is described in Silmarillion, creation of the world by a "god" (Eru Ilúvatar) and "angels" (Ainur), the process of creating the land itself, then fights between evil and good before time began, then Elves were created and First Age started, humans were created, greatest evil was defeated (several times), in the final battle a huge chunk of Middleearth was destroyed. Then you have The Hobbit which is about 5000 years later. Pretty much nothing what happened in Silmarillion is relevant to Hobbit and LOTR, the big bad guy in LOTR was only a servant to the main evil guy from Silmariillion, but so what it matters to LOTR story? (In LOTR he acts independently on anyone.)

[GK733]

Oh, and Lego will be revealing a new theme at New York Comic Con. They handed out tickets to BZPower. Being it's the largest Bionicle fan site, people are speculating the new theme is Bionicle. But then it was suggested it could be Jurassic World sets, which would make more sense for Comic Con.

I thought it would be Jurassic World too, but now users on BZP have mentioned this is the first time when Lego has given them tickets for Comic-Con.

Edited August 31, 2014 by GK733

[Chro]

the six mighty Toa, once brave warriors from another land, now face a greater menace than ever before (etc.)

And what's the point of doing that? You're just hinting at something which you then continue to ignore. In that scenario it makes loads more sense to simply get rid of it altogether. (If it's a reboot, I don't mean that they'd retcon the previous Bionicle story, just that they'd start totally fresh with this new one.)

I'm just trying to say that it would be totally pointless to have a continuation without including what it's being continued from. Rebooting the story would be simpler than saying "there existed an entire story previously which we are now disregarding"... right?

Only franchises I dived deep into are Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, Bionicle. So LOTR will be my example now. The creation and begining of LOTR world is described in Silmarillion, creation of the world by a "god" (Eru Ilúvatar) and "angels" (Ainur), the process of creating the land itself, then fights between evil and good before time began, then Elves were created and First Age started, humans were created, greatest evil was defeated (several times), in the final battle a huge chunk of Middleearth was destroyed. Then you have The Hobbit which is about 5000 years later. Pretty much nothing what happened in Silmarillion is relevant to Hobbit and LOTR, the big bad guy in LOTR was only a servant to the main evil guy from Silmariillion, but so what it matters to LOTR story? (In LOTR he acts independently on anyone.)

The problem here is that it's reversed. If I'm not mistaken, LOTR and The Hobbit were published first, and while it was clear that there was a lot going on in that universe that hadn't been explained, it didn't need to be explained for those stories to make sense and be understood. Then the expanded prequel stuff came later, and built on what we already knew.

Now, as for Bionicle, the prequel stuff already exists, and Bio 2015 would be... basically The Hobbit, by your analogy. I do not believe that this would work out well for Bionicle.

With Bionicle, there's already all of this convoluted backstory, and we can't just forget it exists and continue the story within the same unrebooted universe without complication arising... while with LOTR, the backstory simply didn't exist yet, so there was nothing convoluted there in the first place for LOTR or The Hobbit to have to deal with.

Sorry if my arguments are poorly organized or don't make sense. I'm trying to do too many things at once right now.

[Jakura Nuva]

Again, I never once said that it was a wise or even logical course of action; but it's still a doable one. I know I wouldn't want to see it happen, but it's not impossible.

Edited August 31, 2014 by Jakura Nuva

[Chro]

Oh. I thought you were arguing in favor of that. My mistake.