mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Alright, sorry Nathan, you're wrong. I checked when the pieces of the code were posted in the day 3 thread. What was pinging me was Seamus knowing my piece (the highest number). But it's all legit. Here's why: Then, I replied with "hope we both survive the night to discuss in public tomorrow" and he sent me (5 hours after the initial PM) "Agreed. And I am glad I woke up in the middle of the night over here. Here is your part of the code: The highest number is the tracker." That's the first time I'd posted my piece anywhere. I never shared it over PM. I got +2 Someone got 1 and 17 Another person was told order of confirmed in the C&D thread, higher number is the tracker. The third and nineteenth people to confirm. Clem and Laura. Here's Seamus with his summary that pinged you. Of the essential code Vasquez got one part (1 and 17). Seamus got one part (+2). Bock got one part (confirmation page, order of confirmed). The other ones, 4 of 2, Nathan and Paul each got a part with 2 of the ones getting the code, so it would be taken up in public. This was assuming Clementine and/or Laura was scum, and to rule out it being ignored or turned around in case I had sent the code to scum. They also got a list of the concerns that needed to be raised, but I decided that I could post them in public without revealing anything. Vasquez was murdered, so it didn't work at all. Also I did not get killed, and one of the concerned(read the PMs I posted) got killed but turned up town. But here is the main parts being shared, BEFORE Seamus' post. You missed this in your analysis. 4 of 2, didn't you tell us you were given the key? Which would've been "confirmation page..." So, why would you agree with his analysis? That's not the piece I was given, and I didn't say I agreed with his analysis, I said thanks and then went to check it for myself like I said I was going to. And everything you said was already public knowledge before you said it, so Nathan was wrong.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Also, the code is a bunch of convoluted garbage, the tracker was dead and Zipzop was still alive anyway so if I was Scum, what would killing Vazquez gain? You are reading things that are not there. Try to read my above post explaining everything about the code. Where did you get 2 identical codes from? 4 of 2, you said you were told "The higher number is the tracker", corrcet? I think I finally figured it out. It wasn't two sets of identical codes where one person had the key, it was this: 1. Seamus is told "1 and 17" 2. 4 of 2 is told "the higher number is the tracker" 3. someone else is told "the lower number is X" 4. someone else is told "confirmation thread" 5. someone else is told "order of confirmed" 6. someone else is told "+2" So no two people could've figured anything out by that and only 4 of 2 even suggested doing so, even though Zipzop had survived the night. But, nice attempt at pinning Vazquez's death of me, Nathan. * on
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Now, the real question is what to make of Nathan's analysis - a townie who missed finding the post from Zipzop that gave all the details and so made a bad analysis, or a scummy attempt to lynch Seamus? I'm leaning the former, since it's the start of the day. If it was a deliberate misleading attempt, there was too much time for someone to catch it like I did.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 If it was a deliberate misleading attempt, there was too much time for someone to catch it like I did. Was it hard to remember what part of the code you were given?
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Was it hard to remember what part of the code you were given? What are you talking about? I have no idea what this is about. I was given the "highest number is the tracker" piece. That's all I've ever said I had.
MagPiesRUs Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Where the hell are you getting that? I never spoke with Vazquez and neither 4 of 2 or Bock ever told me their part of the code. Zipzop told us in thread the numbers were 1 and 17. Alright, sorry Nathan, you're wrong. I checked when the pieces of the code were posted in the day 3 thread. What was pinging me was Seamus knowing my piece (the highest number). But it's all legit. Here's why: Oh, I guess I missed that. I was looking at the second time Zipzup explained who got what codes, I hadn't realised he had posted it before. Though it pinged me that Seamus said someone got the 1 and 17 codes, not Vasquez when this was public knowledge. Which is why I voted for Rip. Why would I vote for someone I hadn't made a case about? I would've hammered Bock to make sure we had a lynch. I certainly don't say anywhere that I think Bock is Town. But you kept saying you'd hold off on voting until the end so that you didn't influence anyone and implied you could vote for either candidate, yet you repeatedly said that Rip was a better lynch anyway. I'm aware that you never said Bock was town though, that would be a silly thing to say about someone unconfirmed, and an even sillier thing to say if you were teammates. That's the first time I'd posted my piece anywhere. I never shared it over PM. Your piece of info is pretty much useless anyway though. If the scum got to the two correct numbers (3 and 19), they would have been able to guess which one was the tracker since Clem had already claimed a different role. Also, the code is a bunch of convoluted garbage, the tracker was dead and Zipzop was still alive anyway so if I was Scum, what would killing Vazquez gain? I never said you were responsible for Vazquez's death, I said you were responsible for Laura the tracker's death. I think all of this is telling me I need to get some sleep. I'll be in my bunk.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I had 1 and 17. Where does anyone say Vazquez had that info? megablocking code. But you kept saying you'd hold off on voting until the end so that you didn't influence anyone and implied you could vote for either candidate, yet you repeatedly said that Rip was a better lynch anyway. I'm aware that you never said Bock was town though, that would be a silly thing to say about someone unconfirmed, and an even sillier thing to say if you were teammates. I explained this multiple times, Nathan, if that is your real name. People were throwing all of this attitude (as happens often in these games) how, if I like it or not, I have influence on the vote. So, and I've tried it before and it made Rufus's Scumdar go insane, I decided to hold off on my vote for Day Two to see what people did and sure enough, it went to Claw after I voted for him. So, when someone, I think it was Clem, started being right dawdy about how I have influence, I pointed out that I waited and said...twice...Nathan, come on now, read...that I wasn't going to vote until last. Then I didn't say much about Bock because the day became all about Minga claiming she was Town because she pulled a prank and the two Scummiest players publicly claiming to save their megablocks. There was a lot of work to be done there. Sorry I couldn't be more thorough about the person I didn't hammer but said I would've because the leader of the Town block asked us to choose between two people. So, let's see. Here's what I say about Rip: I want to look more into these middle–ground players. It's a common space for Scum to hide and easy for them to shrug off suspicions. Nathan, aye not Nathan, why did I think Nathan? Because he's in this range too? No, Rip. I mean Rip. Rip starts the game with the bold call for Dr. Wen's head and if he's Scum he's borrowing a page from the Scubacarrot manual of Mafia–play: Act really bold and confident and people will mistake the confidence for Towniness. Remember that opening statement too, I'll come back to it: "I can't leave for an hour without everything crazy going on..." He proposes that Dr. Wen is a detriment to the town no matter what his affiliation is. His "perspective" is that he's either Town, Scum or Neutral... That's some great sleuthing skills there. Maybe he's also a Mafia player? An EB member? An AFOL? And then his vote is carefully worded, "he's a detriment to the Town." This is basically saying "when he flips Town, I still said I just didn't want him here because he's a detriment to us no matter what he was." How dare a noob act like a noob and play like one on top of it? I voted for Dr. Wen as well but it's because I thought he was Scum. Lynching someone because they're a bad Townie doesn't seem to me to be a very Townie thing to do. Again, he's making a Scuba–esque bold claim for the "blocker" not to protect Clementine. It's weird in and of itself as the protector could protect the backup as it's not only the only "role" the Town knows to protect, it's also possibly the only "role" the Scum know to kill. Why wouldn't the Scum want to take out a backup if they don't know the identity of any other role. But, let's see how Scum perspective effects this bold statement. He thinks the blocker protects. That's a weird mistake to make. Blockers probably...hmmmm...block? And the protection is given by....I think the protector. It struck me as odd at the time and I couldn't pinpoint why and today I thought of this. If the Scum don't have a protector, how do they protect themselves? Trying to block the vig or SK, that's how. Scum Perspective. And again, that one started with "It's late so..." blah blah blah statement, remember that one too. Scum Perspective: suspect to the Scum. The Town is looking for Scum suspects. For Rip to think of Scum as having suspects must be how he views his job as Scum. Good thing 4 of 2 knew what he was thinking. This is a long way to explain why he's not voting for the person he went after all day. Then he says he'll go read the day threads and look for evidence. So, I erased the best example and I'm running out of time for now but somewhere he says "You people type so fast!" That combined with the other statements I've asked you to remember (I'm so tired, I can't post much, everything went crazy while I was gone) are fun ways of saying "I'm online but I'm not reading the Scum writeboard, I'm slow and tired." Then he promises to find us some evidence and never comes back. Thinking back to the best examples I can remember of this type of middle–ground Scum play, the entire Scum team in Harriet Slutter and fhomess in Unrest in the Forest, the accused Scum always says something like "Well, I have been busy or tired or sad or grumpy and I do type really slow, is that so Scummy? Sorry I can't be as active as __(fill in the blank, usually me)__ do you expect me to be online all day? I've justified everything I've said and voted. How is that Scummy? I'm just trying to find Scum, sorry I'm not always right. I'll look over the rest of these middle–ground posters, but Rip was the first that came to mind when I started looking at the lower contributors. That's probably why I hammered him since I made such a long case about him. So, here are the only things I say about Bock: Bock is in that middle ground along with Nathan and Rip. Now Bock has PMed me asking questions he could be asking here. What is going on??? Perhaps I wasn't explicit about this but this PM from Bock pinged me: ____________________ And then after ZipZop posted, I got this from Bock, the first private contact we've had in this game: ____________________ Bock What did MT say to you? He says that he's the other person that received the code and that you were misleading people in thread on purpose. He also said that Stig told him that he was splitting the code among us three. Stig didn't tell me who else or even how many others had this code, all he said is that it's part of a code. Did Stig tell you how many others were getting the code? MT didn't say anything about adventurer1 getting the code but he did say that you told him that you knew two other people got it, but you didn't know who. (Which is more than I knew) Does anybody see anything in the behavior from 4 of 2 and Bock? Don't listen to Bock. Bock, stop it. You've played enough to know that keeping this info from the Scum can help the Town. If we announce cleared Townies, we can't read what people are trying to do if they are Scum trying to get a Townie lynched. We also give the Scum a target to remove the work we've accomplished. They don't want verified Townies to sit around and be trusted. The verified Townie can keep the ids of the PRs that the Town block is compiling and keep it safe with the Scum not knowing who they are. And if the verified Townie is a PR then they really shouldn't be revealed. So, as a veteran player and host, you should've been able to come up with that on your own. Then I suppose after that is Rip, Bock, Nathan... So, yeah, I would've hammered him. Nathan has pinged me because I know he's very good at this and has been hard to read. The biggest reason I don't suspect him is because he wasn't aware ...whatever day that was...was almost over and would've incurred a vote penalty had I not PMed him to remind him. If he was Scum, he probably would've been reminded by his team or in a conversation on a writeboard that relied heavily on getting towards the end of the day and Night Action submissions. Anyway, now I'm not even going to say a word about who I think should be lynched and I'll vote last. I probably don't have the self control to do that...
Piratedave84 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I don't care what you and the Town block are doing, what was this about? What were these pressing private matters? You spend a lot of time hovering and waiting for new days to not post and just crawl into the woodwork. You may have the Town block fooled but not me. I was claiming, revealing my results and trying to seek input on how to deal with my role.
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Was it hard to remember what part of the code you were given? Oh, was this talking to yourself???? Let's see... 1. Seamus is told "1 and 17" 2. 4 of 2 is told "the higher number is the tracker" 3. someone else is told "the lower number is X" 4. someone else is told "confirmation thread" 5. someone else is told "order of confirmed" 6. someone else is told "+2" I had 1 and 17. Where does anyone say Vazquez had that info? megablocking code. But then earlier... I got +2 Someone got 1 and 17 Another person was told order of confirmed in the C&D thread, higher number is the tracker. The third and nineteenth people to confirm. Clem and Laura. See where people might be confused?
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I was claiming, revealing my results and trying to seek input on how to deal with my role. Ha! Liar! That's not what I've been told. why would a Townie lie, Paul?
Bob Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I sent reminder posts to: Nathan informing him that Seamus and Vasques got the code. 4 of 2 informing her that Seamus and Bock got the code. Diamond Dodd informing him that Bock and Vasques got the code. When did you send these reminder messages to these players? Was it during the night action cycle? I don't believe you answered me.
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I got my "reminder" that had the actual useful info (this is when I got the highest number is the tracker part) at Sent 10 September 2015 - 10:25 PM The day 2 end of day post was at Posted 09 September 2015 - 10:04 PM. So I got the info JUST before the end of night action submissions. And then I did not contact Seamus or Bock until hours later.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Ha! Liar! That's not what I've been told. why would a Townie lie, Paul? You know, ignore this. Sorry. I apparently don't know how to adjust for time zones. I know I have tunnel vision on you, Minga was nice enough to let me know when you claimed to it and I misread the time she said you claimed. I am curious though, who else you may have been in contact with throughout the game besides Minga and Clem. I still have trouble believing you are Town, even though you claimed PR. I just can't see a Townie acting this Scummy because they have a PR. Can you point out where you said you behaved like this before? Because if you're going to metagame yourself as a defense I can metagame back. I think you have a very different Town–tell and your play in this game has very much been your Scum–tell. Aaah! I'm late for something. Mafia has officially consumed my life. I put my concerns very concisely somewhere but I'll have to look again later. I'll be on and off throughout the day, Scumbag. I don't believe you answered me. I quoted mine if you want to go look. It's when I posted all of Stig's PMs.
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Hey Seamus, wanna take a short break from attacking Paul and answer where I have you making contradictory statements in public? Scroll up, or just click http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=114697&st=25#entry2332368
Piratedave84 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I was claiming, revealing my results and trying to seek input on how to deal with my role. HAHAHAHA you're being lied to then!! There were 12 PMs posted on the 12th between 10 am and 4 pm. You know, ignore this. Sorry. I apparently don't know how to adjust for time zones. I know I have tunnel vision on you, Minga was nice enough to let me know when you claimed to it and I misread the time she said you claimed. I am curious though, who else you may have been in contact with throughout the game besides Minga and Clem. I still have trouble believing you are Town, even though you claimed PR. I just can't see a Townie acting this Scummy because they have a PR. Can you point out where you said you behaved like this before? Because if you're going to metagame yourself as a defense I can metagame back. I think you have a very different Town–tell and your play in this game has very much been your Scum–tell. Aaah! I'm late for something. Mafia has officially consumed my life. I put my concerns very concisely somewhere but I'll have to look again later. I'll be on and off throughout the day, Scumbag. I quoted mine if you want to go look. It's when I posted all of Stig's PMs. I had seen this when I previously posted I acted like this with the SK role along with Def and almost gave the game away as a mason; although not a PR per se, I was in a 'power position' and did not know how to handle it and then gave you EVERYTHING
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Yes but that SK was anti-Town and it's almost exactly how you're behaving here and when you were the mason you were bold and accusatory. See where people might be confused? damn this code. I got +2. I didn't hear 1 and 17 until Zipzop told us. That should be the only instance I confused the two, long after it's been discussed to death so that shouldn't be confusing anyone as it's the only time I swapped them.
Piratedave84 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Yes but that SK was anti-Town and it's almost exactly how you're behaving here and when you were the mason you were bold and accusatory. Honestly it's my first time with a town PR and I messed up. I was trying to be accusatory and when you pressed me for explanations, I lost track of the big picture and just dug in rather than try to explain myself logically. By the time I claimed it was already too late to backtrack.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Wait, wait, wait. Now that I understand the code was broken up between six people, Zipzop, did Vazquez have 1 and 17? If so, how did Nathan know? Did Zipzop ever post which part went to who?
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Seamus - go back and reread the post where I told Nathan his analysis was wrong. I quoted there the first times the code pieces were said publicly.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Seamus - go back and reread the post where I told Nathan his analysis was wrong. I quoted there the first times the code pieces were said publicly. Thank you! That will save me such a headache. No offense, Zipzop, but your posts are kind of a mental quagmire.
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 Of the essential code Vasquez got one part (1 and 17). Perfect. That's how Nathan would know.
Dragonfire Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 We're trying very hard to work things out behind the scenes. However, Minga is pretty sure we'll be lynching scum today, regardless of the investigation result. We have narrowed down the pool of possible scum to an extent where we probably have them all cornered.
Piratedave84 Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 We're trying very hard to work things out behind the scenes. However, Minga is pretty sure we'll be lynching scum today, regardless of the investigation result. We have narrowed down the pool of possible scum to an extent where we probably have them all cornered. No you're not, you're stalling. You have results, you told me you did and you are not sharing them here. This will cause confusion and will loose precious time for us all; I told you this in private, now get those results in and stop megablocking with us. Christ, we did not get a single scum result or lynch a single scum, why should today be different? I asked you who I should watch yesterday and your answer was "whomever but make sure to tell us after you send it in" what kind of coordination is this?
Hinckley Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 I asked you who I should watch yesterday and your answer was "whomever but make sure to tell us after you send it in" what kind of coordination is this? It's very smart, actually. I agree that a selection of targets should be discussed but now you know for sure that Minga didn't know who you'd be watching. Therefore if anything goes wrong in the Town block, you won't suspect the leader. I approve of the strategy. Now, you are playing the game, so I assume you were able, since you read the threads so often and hover all day, to choose a good target. Can you tell us who you targeted or if you learned anything? Or are you just going to yell at Minga for strategically with–holding information?
mostlytechnic Posted September 17, 2015 Posted September 17, 2015 We're trying very hard to work things out behind the scenes. However, Minga is pretty sure we'll be lynching scum today, regardless of the investigation result. We have narrowed down the pool of possible scum to an extent where we probably have them all cornered. Yep, we narrowed down the pool by lynching half the town Let's take a look at everyone: 4 of 2 (Mostlytechnic) - Claimed town vig Bock Pathos (Bob) - Clementine Lister (Lind Whisperer) - claimed backup Diamond Dodd (CallmePie) - Hannah Ford (Ranger of the Forest) - Harriet Stomper (Mediumsnowman) - Minga Gorgon (Dragonfire) - claimed cleared Nathan 'Maurice' Mallard (TinyPiesRUs) - Paul Harkonnenn (Piratedave84) - claimed watcher Seamus Aaron (Hinckley) - Zipzop Beetlejuice (Sir Stig) - So we've got 4 people claiming something and 7 with no public claims. Now, assuming we've got a couple other roles that the town block knows (the investigator, blocker, etc), it doesn't take much to have the 6 town identified. Then the remaining 5 are a SK and 4 scum. Done. Frankly, I think we're basically at the point (based on our numbers) that we should just mass claim, lay everything out, and have the scum known to everyone. Unless the town block has a reason NOT to believe one of the existing claims, I don't see any reason not to.
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