Bionicle 2001 and beyond: An essay of personal thoughts.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

"You know, I've found things under rocks that have more guts than you Makuta do... and smell better, too. And I'm a Toa of Stone... I know rocks."

"You did not defeat the Toa Nuva--We simply found your company so boring, we chose to take a nap."

LAAAME

And sorry if I insulted you, Grievous. I'm just expressing my distaste with the storyline through example.

Since when was the story about Pohatu looking under rocks for Makuta and Toa taking naps?

Seriously, the quotes you posted have nothing to do with the storyline, so find a better example plox.

I don't mind the story. It's pretty epic, it's fun... But you know... I'm just like that.

~Air Spirit

[Clonie]

Most of the dialogue is pretty lame though. That reduces epicness by twenty-eight percent.

I do like the story and all though... I just find it's cheesy too frequently.

[Pencoin]

y'know what i hate? Greg himself! He is a bit hateable though, when the spirit strom was metioned on a Toys r us page at the begining of the year. I asked him and it said it was a mistake. And that mistake in the mutran chronicles, well y'know.

Don't get me started on Maxilos/Makuta

[Ikki o' Moopyville]

... what mistake in the Mutran Chronicles? And what spirit storm?

I r confuzzled.

-Ikk

Edited July 24, 2008 by Ikki o' Moopyville

[Pencoin]

the mistake in mutran chronicles was that in chapter 2 (i think) he metioned lohrak but later he stated Mutran had only just made them which was a mistake, he then corrected it nin the next chapter though

spirit storm is a big thing tahts gonig to happen in karda nui (mata nuis heart jump starting i guess) and the reason they all have to hide in the codrex

[Zarkan]

I sorta agree with him... There are a few standard so-called humorous lines that Greg uses in pretty much every comic, book, and serial, with slight variations. The rest of the dialogue is typically generic or stereotypical chatter without much depth to it. Take for instance Kongu, Lewa, and Matau -- they sound EXACTLY alike in all Greg's writings, complete with the horribly mutilated Treespeak.

I'd disagree with that as well. I've noticed major differences in the three main air toa - Matau sounds really immature in all of his dialogue, while Kongu actually seems the most serious and mature Air toa of them all. Lewa's kinda in between, but all of them are different. And how exactly is the treespeak mutilated? I'm serious - what exactly makes it mutilated for you?

Are you saying that seventy-four percent of dialogue isn't as lame as what Ecto posted?

"Lohrak! Lohrak???"

Yes, especially considering that two of the three quotes he posted are from 2003, not the later years. This kinda makes me wonder if Ecto has even read the books - because if he's just reading the comics, he won't have any idea what the books are like. There is a LOT of description and serious dialogue in the Legends series - and all the "annoying" lines in the comics are spaced out.

y'know what i hate? Greg himself! He is a bit hateable though, when the spirit strom was metioned on a Toys r us page at the begining of the year. I asked him and it said it was a mistake. And that mistake in the mutran chronicles, well y'know.

Don't get me started on Maxilos/Makuta

Okay Pencoin, you seriously need to realize how much info Greg has swirling around in his head. He himself has said that sometimes he makes mistakes because he has a ton of stuff on his mind. Case in point: Greg said at one point that Krakua was an OOMN member, but later he said that he had made a mistake. He even gave BZP an exclusive preview of Bionicle Legends 11 because of that. He probably doesn't remember what you are refering too, because you were the only one who thought he made a mistake. The Krakua incident was resolved because a ton of people questioned him about it.

Most of the dialogue is pretty lame though. That reduces epicness by twenty-eight percent.

I do like the story and all though... I just find it's cheesy too frequently.

Again, I know that it would seem that way if you only read the comics, but the books are a LOT better, because there's not just dialogue but description. And there's also a lot of different dialogue that's more serious.

[Ikki o' Moopyville]

the mistake in mutran chronicles was that in chapter 2 (i think) he metioned lohrak but later he stated Mutran had only just made them which was a mistake, he then corrected it nin the next chapter though

spirit storm is a big thing tahts gonig to happen in karda nui (mata nuis heart jump starting i guess) and the reason they all have to hide in the codrex

Well, according to himself, the Lohrak thing was planned all along, though I agree it was very probably a mistake -- but like Grevious said, the guy has a thousand things in his already unstable brain. So, no biggie.

And there is no such thing as a spirit storm, so if Greg said there wasn't, he'd be correct -- it's called an energy storm.

I'd disagree with that as well. I've noticed major differences in the three main air toa - Matau sounds really immature in all of his dialogue, while Kongu actually seems the most serious and mature Air toa of them all. Lewa's kinda in between, but all of them are different. And how exactly is the treespeak mutilated? I'm serious - what exactly makes it mutilated for you?

Easy -- compare these two quotes (presumably you can figure out their respective origins) :

"Traveler beware! Darktime come! Matau stolen, Lewa gone! Le-Matoran prepare for battleflight!"

"Just once -- Just once! -- I'd like to take a trip-walk without someone trying to kill me!"

HUGE difference. The latter is Kongu using a standard sentence with a few synonyms combined to make for new terms. That's ridiculously easy, that's lame, and that's the direct opposite of the unique dialect Treespeak used to be.

Yes, especially considering that two of the three quotes he posted are from 2003, not the later years. This kinda makes me wonder if Ecto has even read the books - because if he's just reading the comics, he won't have any idea what the books are like. There is a LOT of description and serious dialogue in the Legends series - and all the "annoying" lines in the comics are spaced out.

The fact that they're from 2003 just proves his point. Greg wrote the comics back then -- he writes the books and comics now. And those lines are still being used five years later. I can't speak for Ecto, but I've read all the books and comics myself, and while there is a fair bit of entertaining dialogue, a large part simply consists of snide remarks, stereotypical jokes, and reused banter.

Again, I know that it would seem that way if you only read the comics, but the books are a LOT better, because there's not just dialogue but description. And there's also a lot of different dialogue that's more serious.

Agreed. Especially since the comics are now illustrated versions of the books.

-Ikk

[Ecto]

NOTE: I've read every book and every comic Bionicle has to offer.

...

The comics are the books with less meat and more flashy images. Back in 2001 the comics were the only way to tell the story, but when books began to sell thay became compacted rewrites of every "novel". Now that Scholastic has dropped the book count per year to two, the comics end up being able to tell more story than the books--and yet they don't. They remain the flashy childish 10 page glimpses of the story--with flashy, childish lines that in canon storyline the characters probably made up the night before, and in real life Greg probably pulls out of a hat. It's so generic and ridiculous I'm beginning to wonder what the Power Rangers did with our beloved Toa.

[Algernon]

The first three comics were awesome, but then they just got stupid, like everything else in Bionicle. I still have the first three sitting on my desk.

The books may be better than the comics, but they're still bad.

[Zaktan of the Shadows]

y'know what i hate? Greg himself! He is a bit hateable though, when the spirit strom was metioned on a Toys r us page at the begining of the year. I asked him and it said it was a mistake. And that mistake in the mutran chronicles, well y'know.

Don't get me started on Maxilos/Makuta

*sigh*

You know Greg works with BZP members, write books, and goes to conventions. You think he ever gets tired? Everyone makes mistakes.

-ZotS

[Pencoin]

yes the storm is called the energy storm but its the same thing as the sprit storm just a last minute name change!

[Zarkan]

Easy -- compare these two quotes (presumably you can figure out their respective origins) :

"Traveler beware! Darktime come! Matau stolen, Lewa gone! Le-Matoran prepare for battleflight!"

"Just once -- Just once! -- I'd like to take a trip-walk without someone trying to kill me!"

HUGE difference. The latter is Kongu using a standard sentence with a few synonyms combined to make for new terms. That's ridiculously easy, that's lame, and that's the direct opposite of the unique dialect Treespeak used to be.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The fact that they're from 2003 just proves his point. Greg wrote the comics back then -- he writes the books and comics now. And those lines are still being used five years later. I can't speak for Ecto, but I've read all the books and comics myself, and while there is a fair bit of entertaining dialogue, a large part simply consists of snide remarks, stereotypical jokes, and reused banter.

Thanks for explaning. I bet that if anything, the main reason that Treespeak was simplified was that the kids didn't like the old version. Regardless, I don't really mind that much, because Treespeak was never a gigantic element of the storyline - although it did make the Le-Matoran sound really unique.

Also, I see what you mean somewhat about the jokes. However, I think generally the books have stopped using as much of that as they did back in 2004 and 2005. Sure, there's some, but I don't think it really takes up more than 5 percent or so - and it's unrealistic to expect books written for 8-11 year olds to not have any of that. Plus, the dialogue has been improving - the Makuta and Barraki really had some great lines.

The first three comics were awesome, but then they just got stupid, like everything else in Bionicle. I still have the first three sitting on my desk.

The books may be better than the comics, but they're still bad.

Again - I'd like to see you do better. Greg may not be the best writer EVER, but his books are very good considering the age level they are aimed at. There's a lot of harder vocabulary, a ton of description, and the overall plot is very complex.

BTW guys, a good point of inspiration would be member Lord Admiral Helden Ravensburg (who sadly doesn't seem to post on eurobricks anymore). He shares a lot of your opinions, but he doesn't just sit on his butt and complain - he actually was working on a new bionicle storyline that he created himself. Yeah, I know most don't have the time or experience to do stuff like that (I sure don't have the latter), but he's still someone to be respected because of that.

Edited July 24, 2008 by Grevious

[Pencoin]

Actually Greg stated it was because he found it annoying to write like that, he even thinks its annoying doing the junorized version as well

another reason to hate him, no?

[Heir of the Chronicler]

BTW guys, a good point of inspiration would be member Lord Admiral Helden Ravensburg (who sadly doesn't seem to post on eurobricks anymore). He shares a lot of your opinions, but he doesn't just sit on his butt and complain - he actually was working on a new bionicle storyline that he created himself. Yeah, I know most don't have the time or experience to do stuff like that (I sure don't have the latter), but he's still someone to be respected because of that.

Eh! Bwuh? Nih! *hic* Did shomeboddier mention mah name...? *hic*

My, my, looks like they did. And here I thought you hated me for my somewhat... passionate views, Grievous!

Its good to know not everyone thought I was a *complete* as-(bleep).

I got sick of my Bionicle rivals writing me off as "Oh, you're just a nostalgic whiner, you don't know what you're talking about, leave it to the pro's." So I ditched that approach. Every time I take up the Bionicle argument, I try to analyze where the subject in question is weak, where it is strong, and then show how it could have been improved before it went public. Sadly, this approach rarely gets me any further then just straight-forward complaining, so I've stopped pretty much entirely.

Pencoin, thats because Greg is a comic book writer. He is not suited to this sort of work. He shone much brighter when he simply did what the rest of the story team told him to do. He likes to think he's made the story "dark" and "action packed", but I'm afraid he's no Christopher Nolan.

- Heir

P.S.: Yeah, I havent been on here since February, shortly before the forum switch. My old account doesnt seem to work any more, so I used my BZP account; its probably better known to some of our "new" folks from BZP.

I drifted off for a number of reasons; I didn't like how the Pirate section fell apart, I got burnt-out and hot under the collar about my Bio arguments here, and the cats threw my entire collection of meticulously sorted parts off the shelf, so until I feel like spending about 15 hours cleaning and re-sorting everything, I'm pretty well out of the picture on MoCing. As for my writing - for both Pirates of the Archipalego and my re-written Bionicle universe - I ended up having more important writing projects, and I kind of drifted out of the "mood". I may come back and finish them some day, but nows not the time :-/

Cheers!

Edited July 24, 2008 by Heir of the Chronicler

[Algernon]

Again - I'd like to see you do better. Greg may not be the best writer EVER, but his books are very good considering the age level they are aimed at. There's a lot of harder vocabulary, a ton of description, and the overall plot is very complex.

I'm sure I could do better. And the overall plot is not complex at all.

[Ecto]

Righto, Alg.

"hey, theres an all-powerful mask, let's stop our fallen-from-grace enemies that hate us (although it would take 100 of us to even scratch one) from stealing the mask because THE END OF THE WORLD IS NEAR! Power Rangers assemble!"

And I know I come off as a complete jackass when I do things like this, but hey, it's fun. :D

[Algernon]

I don't really see the point in bashing Greg, which is just kind of mean. It's not his fault Bionicle has gone downhill.

[Clonie]

Again, I know that it would seem that way if you only read the comics, but the books are a LOT better, because there's not just dialogue but description. And there's also a lot of different dialogue that's more serious.

I've read all the Legends books, except the 2008 ones. Although I plan to.

Basically,

I like the books. Yeah. And I was exaggerating with the percentages. But the jokes aren't really necessary, on top of the fact that I can't see a kid laughing at any of them. I would enjoy these books more if I didn't have to roll my eyes one single time.

You can have an epic story that doesn't have jokes (shock horror). But if you must include jokes, at least make them appealing to more than ten people.

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Actually, Alg, he's directly responsible for the story goin' down ;-)

- Heir

[Ecto]

He's partially responsible. I certainly don't hate the man, and I appreciate that he's lead Bionicle for so long. I just think the story needs a change of direction, and 2009 may be what I'm hoping for.

[Zarkan]

Hey, welcome back Ravensburg! Glad to see you again.

Actually, Alg, he's directly responsible for the story goin' down ;-)

- Heir

That is partly true, if you do hate the current story - but you've got to realize that there's many factors that affect the direction of bionicle. For one, a big part has to do with what the sets look like. I'm sure you've noticed how meancing Bionicle sets have become, especially villians (and even the heroes partly!). That no doubt has affected how the storyline is. Also, I'd said it before, and I'll say it again: Greg is not the sole storyline author. He may be the leader, but he has a lot of people working with him.

My, my, looks like they did. And here I thought you hated me for my somewhat... passionate views, Grievous!

Its good to know not everyone thought I was a *complete* as-(bleep).

Heh, well I probably did back then. But that was also when I was still kind of a newb, and back then I was so passionate that respect kinda got lost in the mix. I've gotten over that now, and with that also came the realization that you're really cool for actually attempting to make a new Bionicle storyline at one point.

[Pencoin]

Dude i dont mean to be nasty but alot of people here need to find some evidence before they jump the gun

like for instance Greg aint a 'comic-book writer' before he did bionicle he had wrote a few novels

and Greg is not fully of cause, responsiable for the downfall of bionicle, but hes part of it

[hewkii9]

It's clobberin time!

lol

What? Don't you know who I am? I'm the Jugger-..wait, no. Let's try that again. What? Don't you know who I am? I'm Teridax, *$#(% !

They remain the flashy childish 10 page glimpses of the story--with flashy, childish lines that in canon storyline the characters probably made up the night before, and in real life Greg probably pulls out of a hat.

I can just imagine Lewa sitting in his bunk bed the night before he makes a retort - " 'I'm a ToaAir, and you're about to be AwayBlowed!' oh tee hee! he'll be so hurt by that zinger of a remark!"

Pencoin, thats because Greg is a comic book writer. He is not suited to this sort of work. He shone much brighter when he simply did what the rest of the story team told him to do. He likes to think he's made the story "dark" and "action packed", but I'm afraid he's no Christopher Nolan.

I don't see why everything needs to be dark and gritty these days. If anything though, BIONICLE was most mature when the bad guy was the embodiment of Nothing or even robotic police gone wrong, rather than the 'dark' heyday of gangsters that get turned into eels and ancient fish-dudes, not to mention lametalking, overpowered Matoran, and the repeated threats to the universe.

"If the Visorak succeed, the universe will fall!"

"If the Piraka succeed, the universe will fall!" and so on.

[Heir of the Chronicler]

Bwaha, good points all, Hewkii :)

And aye, I know what ya mean, Grievous. That universe o' mine still exists, far more complete then you ever saw; I developed it all in my mind and was simply writing it down :-P

Meh. Glad to be back.

- Heir

[Ecto]

...Heir? Like, the mask-maker?

Awesome.