Anyone else find the Mosaic theme boring?

[jxu]

I understand owning a Lego Mosaic for the display value and because it is a LEGO product which has some novelty. And the LEGO Group can expand their portfolio and make money. But it feels very against Lego in spirit. At least my idea of Lego is using small interchangeable pieces to build up interesting 3D models for play and display. Not only is the build incredibly tedious (which some people actually enjoy), the design is lazy and uncreative. Something feels so un-Lego-like about buying a box, pouring out 3000 1x1 round pieces, and arranging them on a flat baseplate. And if you want to make your own design, you might as well design it first on a computer, or you'll be spending hours placing and removing studs. Who's really going to buy these sets to make their own design? These are display pieces.

Now for my view I'm sure to get a lot of flak for: the LEGO press release describes these as a “new canvas for creative expression… designed for adults who pride themselves on their love of pop culture”. Something about this statement seems so off-putting. Being proud of loving pop culture is plain intellectual laziness. I don't mean it's bad to be a fan of Star Wars or whatever. But seeing your love of pop culture and consumerism as some kind of achievement is silly. Ironic that Warhol's subversive depiction of blatant repetitive commercialism itself becomes blatant repetitive commercialism without a hint of self-awareness. Why create something new when you can just rehash and repackage what's already popular?

Again, I'm not saying these are bad products. Just they are boring. I too can design a mosaic with 5 minutes of fiddling in Photoshop and messing with a limited color palette. 

[Lego David]

I agree, I don't really see the point of this theme either. But LEGO has been experimenting a lot with Adult-Focused sets like this lately, so it's existence shouldn't come as a surprise. From all those things they've been doing, I get the vibe that they're really trying to attract new Adults into buying LEGO, even though this kinda stuff isn't exactly what AFOLs actually want. 

Also, am I the only one who thinks having Marlin Monroe in LEGO is a bit of a questionable decision? 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Lego David

[Peppermint_M]

2 hours ago, jxu said:

I too can design a mosaic with 5 minutes of fiddling in Photoshop and messing with a limited color palette. 

You would be surprised by who can't do that for themselves. Those who are not equipped with the skills, knowledge or ability to create something like this for themselves. Then they reach the problem that they cannot source the parts they need or the colours they want. 

Sure, I find them boring "sets" but they are nice enough products for people into that sort of thing.

We forget that we are in a bubble or echo chamber of LEGO Fans, we know how, where and what we need to do and buy. There are builders who create fantastic mosaics and art pieces that are really impressive, not really my speed so it is something I won't be doing. (However, there is something similar I want to do with bottlecaps, so yeah...). Then again, there are people who create massive greebled grey slabs of Star Wars ships which I personally find just as tedious and boring, each to their own eh?

I won't be buying any, but I have a few friends who enjoy LEGO who like them and want something related to their interests. I have no desire to be a gatekeeper or telling people they are doing it wrong. Of course, I personally adore creative building and sometimes just empty a boxed set out into my collection, never to be built as "intended" and I will forever encourage people to embrace their creative side. Though, some do not, as I stated, have the skills or even the creativity. All our brains are wired up differently and we have our own talents.

2 hours ago, jxu said:

seeing your love of pop culture and consumerism as some kind of achievement is silly.

We like to collect neat stuff! Humans, animals: Neat Stuff is appealing. I am something of a collector of things, I am proud of my 600+ collection of books with some prize pieces being rare books, a comic signed by artist and writer, and a pre-published editor copy. People prize the first editions, or certain print-runs. Exactly the same consumerism as pop-culture clutter. There are Gearheads who have a rare car or coars, is Jay Leno wrong for being proud of his car collection? Cars are a pretty big flag of consumerism. Treasured family heirlooms often started life as a purchase with both practical and aspirational uses (The expensive sideboard, the fancy china; "Valuable" as it makes you look impressive, a social achievement amongst peers.

Sure, if society as a whole discards a consumerist viewpoint then the value is lost. However, there is always a positive feeling to own something you admire and can show to your peers. Case in point, a fellow fan of SciFi is impressed that I have a full set of Terran Trade Authority books. A colleague of mine thinks I am wasting a lot of space by owning any books at all! We evaluate according to our own interest and aspirations. 

I am happy that LEGO is embracing the market of Adults who like Stuff. It not only means I am not a "weirdo"  who "plays with kids toys", it means my friends can engage in my Hobby in a meaningful way.

1 hour ago, Lego David said:

Also, am I the only one who thinks having Marlin Monroe in LEGO is a bit of a questionable decision? 

What is wrong with her? She existed in LEGO way before this art piece inspired by the famous Warhol design.

Personally, I like Liechtenstein more, and Banana is my favourite Warhol piece. I worked with someone who had a mug from the National Gallery with the banana on and I was jealous of that! (She worked in Conservation for a museum that I worked in with her for a while, so it fitted the job too!). 

 

 

[Trekkie99]

4 hours ago, jxu said:

Being proud of loving pop culture is plain intellectual laziness.

Being "proud" of your hobby is probably only necessary cause someone called it stupid in the first place.  

[JintaiZ]

4 hours ago, Lego David said:

Also, am I the only one who thinks having Marlin Monroe in LEGO is a bit of a questionable decision? 

Marilyn Monroe is my favorite to be honest.

[astral brick]

6 hours ago, jxu said:

Something feels so un-Lego-like about buying a box, pouring out 3000 1x1 round pieces, and arranging them on a flat baseplate.

Perhaps the easiest way to make the act of building digestible by this new market segment, ie Lego parts used in the guise of jigsaws' pieces.

6 hours ago, jxu said:

Being proud of loving pop culture is plain intellectual laziness.

Not to mention that the pop culture symbols are represented through a popular toy, the final result is pop culture squared.

6 hours ago, jxu said:

I don'But seeing your love of pop culture and consumerism as some kind of achievement is silly.

I agree, but we have to admit that this distorted perception is the base of our current consumer society.

6 hours ago, jxu said:

Ironic that Warhol's subversive depiction of blatant repetitive commercialism itself becomes blatant repetitive commercialism without a hint of self-awareness.

Well said, and so true.

[ReplicaOfLife]

My thoughts on this:

These sets seem to be aimed more at people who aren't Lego fans, but wish for a unusual display piece. That might work, but I also think Lego is shooting itself in the foot a bit here - putting over 3000 round 1x1 plates or tiles on baseplates sounds like quite the punishment to me, so I don't think they will win many new long-term customers with this. Rather, I'd expect many of these to be sold off half- or quarter-built, with the sellers being put off of Lego for good due to the tedious nature of putting it together. Just think about it, it's like coloring by numbers, but even less fun.

 

Fun fact: Mosaics actually were among the very first Lego sets ever (Sets 1300 & 1301 from 1955: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=1300-1#T=S&O={"rpp":"50","iconly":0}, https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=1301-1#T=S&O={"rpp":"50","iconly":0}).

Apparently, they tanked.

[jxu]

More broadly, "old Lego" and "modern Lego" are relative terms, but it does seem like the LEGO Group is leaning more heavily towards licensed products nowadays. I want to emphasize there is nothing wrong with owning or liking licensed Lego products, and Lego has produced some incredible licensed sets. But I think AFOLs really appreciate when Lego steps outside the licensed product world to bring some really creative products, like the ship in the bottle, the grand piano, or the old fishing store. It's refreshing and to me it makes me feel the same creative wonder I had as a kid, building something I never even thought of. 

Anyhow, the mosaics are surely targeted to adults, because I'm sure if my parents got me this when I was a little kid, I would say something like "Thanks, but this doesn't feel like Lego... I'm supposed to build something!" I can't be too critical of the company trying something new, but deep down I really wish they would do something new by releasing ten Ideas sets 

Edited August 31, 2020 by jxu

[Mylenium]

4 minutes ago, jxu said:

"old Lego" and "modern Lego" are relative terms

Or they never existed to begin with? I can only reiterate what I said a bunch of times elsewhere: I'm pretty much doing LEGO for 4.5 years at this point with no prior exposure and it seems to me people are always somehow caught up in some weird, idealized perception of the before-times rather than what it actually was. LEGO have had a ton of missteps in their entire existence no matter what decade you look at. The "old Lego" was just as terrible as its contemporary counterpart on many levels. The rest is pretty much beside the point. Again you mustn't hang on to the illusion that LEGO is anything but a big corporation and those run on money, not ideals and moralities. They may brag on about their own ethical standards, but LEGO is far removed from the benevolent "pop's workshop" it likes to present itself. At the end of the day it's all about cold hard cash.

Mylenium

[legolandia]

I like the recent Stra Wars mosaic and the fact that you can combine 3 sets to create a big one however the price is extortionate. £300+ for a full scale Vader is ridiculous. If they go on sale I may get one but otherwise I'm not touching them.

[koalayummies]

56 minutes ago, jxu said:

But I think AFOLs really appreciate when Lego steps outside the licensed product world to bring some really creative products, like the ship in the bottle, the grand piano, or the old fishing store. It's refreshing and to me it makes me feel the same creative wonder I had as a kid, building something I never even thought of.

You don't speak for all AFOL. Seems like you're searching for nostalgia while criticizing Lego for trying something new that in no way detracts what you're interested in. How is this theme not creative, while yet another minifigure based building, or a microscale pirate ship is?

8 hours ago, jxu said:

These are display pieces.

Yes that's what AFOL do. Are you playing with your Old Fishing Store? Having the mom and kid minifigures walk in, buy lures and then go fishing off the pier? That's fine if you do but it seems most put their builds on a shelf and display them.

The mosaics are a higher art form compared to a lot of Lego offerings. Lego fans have been MOCing their own mosaics for a very long time so if TLG sees some potential in offering mosaics to those who don't have photoshop then its a theme worth trying out.

You're entitled to your opinion that they're boring but having a 1x1-plate-based pointillism-esque portrait of some person you like on display seems a heck of a lot more classy than some weird standalone no context minifigure fishing store building. If I walk into someones place and they have a Lego-built mosaic of Martin Luther King Jr. hanging on the wall I'd think "woah, that is awesome!". But If instead I see the Old Fishing Store on display in their living room I'd think "ehhhh, put that in another room out of sight, you know like behind a door along side your katanas, fedora collection and fully body anime pillows".

[ShaydDeGrai]

My "problem" (for lack of a better term) with these sets isn't that they are boring (I can appreciate them for what they are and could see myself chilling out to Lego's answer to paint-by-numbers with a glass of Scotch on a cold winter evening) but that they are grossly overpriced for what they are.  But wait, some say, you get over three thousand parts for 120 USD that's like 4 cents a part, much better than the 10-11 cents/part magic range you usually cling to...  

Perhaps it's the Scotch in me talking (you can take that either way, it still works) but if you look at something like the Iron man kit, you get 136 bricks, plates, and other "infrastructure" elements, for argument's sake lets say these average 10 cents a each on BL - Let's round up to $14 for the lot.  You also get 44 technic pins; the last time I bought these in quantity I paid about a penny a piece - let's double that and say we have $1 worth of pins.  That means the rest of the set are 1x1 rounds, a little under three thousand of them.  Usually I don't go out of my way to even buy these, I just use them as filler when I have spaces left over in my pick-a-brick cup in at the Lego Store and I've passively amassed tens of kilos of them over the years, but for arguments sake lets value most of these at a penny each as well on the secondary market)  Add it up and you've got about $45 worth of parts selling for nearly three times that as "licensed art".  No perhaps I'm low-balling a this a little bit, some of the larger plates would clearly sell for more that a dime and some of the 1x1's are in rarer colors, but with a retail price of $120 versus a bin of mostly black and red 1x1 rounds there's a lot of wiggle room to cover before that 4 cents a "brick" average becomes a true indicator of "value".  

The math only gets worse when you thing about what it takes to build the multi-panel versions.  $360 for a standing Darth Vader mosaic?  I could build a decent 3-D sculpture for that.

I like the look of them, but even at half the price I think it would be cheaper to bricklink them or build with parts on hand.  

[jimmynick]

2 hours ago, astral brick said:

Well said, and so true.

While true, LEGO isn't the first company or person to have taken advantage of it!

1 hour ago, ReplicaOfLife said:

These sets seem to be aimed more at people who aren't Lego fans, but wish for a unusual display piece.

Very much so, I think.

I'm not sure the AFOL community is the target of these sets - much more Adults Who Might Be Persuaded to Buy a LEGO Set (AWMBPTBALS ) instead. I'd much prefer to stick to my digital bricks building things that appeal almost exclusively to me and that's fine. If someone wants to buy one of these mosaics, it's no skin off my nose is it?

[Lego David]

6 hours ago, Peppermint_M said:

What is wrong with her? She existed in LEGO way before this art piece inspired by the famous Warhol design.

Marlin Monroe was a controversial figure, to say the least. Her being represented in LEGO was a weird choice in my opinion, but I guess that's up for debate. 

 

[Peppermint_M]

2 hours ago, Lego David said:

Marlin Monroe was a controversial figure, to say the least. Her being represented in LEGO was a weird choice in my opinion, but I guess that's up for debate. 

 

So are Pirates, so was Carrie Fisher, American Soldiers Manifesting their Destiny have existed in classic and Licensed form. Indiana Jones sets had actual Nazis (just without any insignia). I think it is a bit weird to pick on something like that.

[CopperTablet]

"This product is not for you."  -Mark Rosewater

In any large line of collectibles, there will be things that interest you, and things that don't.   I have no interest in the mosaics but people like pixel art stuff like Perler so maybe Lego can compete.

Edited August 31, 2020 by CopperTablet

[Mylenium]

12 hours ago, Lego David said:

Marlin Monroe was a controversial figure

You could say that about pretty much any celebrity on some level, but why should that stop anyone from representing them as "art"? The world's not going to come to an end from a hacky LEGO mosaic based on a hacky piece of pop-art.

Mylenium

13 hours ago, ShaydDeGrai said:

lets value most of these at a penny each as well on the secondary market

They are worth a fraction of a cent fresh out of the factory, which is kinda the point. Even your infrastructure elements are likely much, much cheaper, even if you account for the cost of the new molds. LEGO are sure milking this to max out their revenue. On the other hand of course your math wouldn't add up for people who don't have a huge pile of pieces to sit on. That's the crux of it. Still, it seems to me that around 80-ish Euro would be well enough for one such set.

Mylenium

[MAB]

I've made LEGO mosaics for the best part of 20 years. I've always found them quite relaxing to do. But I rarely display them for more than a few months, as I prefer to display something with more detail. If I wanted a picture of Vader, I'd display a print. That isn't to say that it is not relaxing to build the mosaic of course. The process is sometimes worth more than the final article. In that sense, it is nice you can rebuild each into three or four different mosaics. But I would not pay that much for one. Plus I prefer square plates to round plates or tiles, as they also have the challenge of lining them up.

 

On 8/31/2020 at 9:06 AM, jxu said:

Something feels so un-Lego-like about buying a box, pouring out 3000 1x1 round pieces, and arranging them on a flat baseplate. And if you want to make your own design, you might as well design it first on a computer, or you'll be spending hours placing and removing studs. Who's really going to buy these sets to make their own design? These are display pieces.

Very few will buy these to make their own designs. But then, I imagine most $100+/100 Euro/£100+ sets get built once and displayed as instructed in the manual.

[Mystery_Mosaics]

I absolutely love Mosaics. I usually just make mosaics about maybe my favourite sports team logo maybe a movie poster that I like or just some funny brick artwork. For me I find it relaxing.

[jxu]

Ok I think people are reading too much into my comment about "old Lego" which was off-topic anyway. I'm not under the illusion that Lego is first and foremost a toy company, or that they run on some kind of morality system or produce high art. As long as Lego doesn't sacrifice other sets to make these mosaics, I have no real problem with it.

@koalayummies I don't think that the display pieces can't be art, but for my personal taste (again not imposing on others), these really are more boring than 3D display sets. The nostalgia is not the main point and I shouldn't have brought it up because it's off-topic. And I think you took misinterpreted my "display pieces" comment. My point is not that display pieces are bad (in fact I love display pieces), but that Lego claims that you can make your own mosaics, but it's pointless to buy these sets to do that especially given the limited palette and tedious piece placement and price. As tedious as building from instructions is, making your own mosaic with actual parts would be 10x worse.

@ShaydDeGrai good price analysis. At my local Lego store they have the large Pick a Brick cups for $16 and I estimate I could fit several hundred 1x1 round plates in there at least. Pretty much every set comes with a few spare 1x1 pieces and if you buy many sets those can accumulate too. Not to mention you can buy those small 1x1 plates new and in thousands at once on Bricklink for 1-2 cents each (at least for common colors). This means you could part out the pieces for half or even less of the original cost like you said. The Marilyn Monroe one might be worth it for the rarer pink and medium azure tiles. I looked up the Sith one and black pieces make up the most common color by far, and those are very cheap. However to part it out below just buying the whole set requires buying from multiple stores which can add up S&H. 

14 hours ago, MAB said:

But then, I imagine most $100+/100 Euro/£100+ sets get built once and displayed as instructed in the manual.

I think that only applies to "display sets". There are quite a few Lego City sets over $100 as an example and they are great for taking apart and building other stuff. Rebrickable has some really nice alternate builds like for the Liebherr Excavator. Also many expensive sets come with minifigs that are very versatile for use in other builds.

[MAB]

10 hours ago, jxu said:

I think that only applies to "display sets". There are quite a few Lego City sets over $100 as an example and they are great for taking apart and building other stuff. Rebrickable has some really nice alternate builds like for the Liebherr Excavator. Also many expensive sets come with minifigs that are very versatile for use in other builds.

Given how many second hand complete playsets are sold on bricklink, ebay, etc I doubt this is just display sets. People these days know that LEGO has more value if kept in the original set rather than mixing it up.

The mosaics sets will also be useful for producing many different pictures, so long as they have a similar colour palette to the original pictures. If that it what some people enjoy doing, then they are a good set for them and these people would probably not buy normal building sets. Personally I think it is great that LEGO has a range of products aimed at a range of people and it doesn't matter if I am not interested in one or more themes as I am not forced to buy or enjoy them.

I like building castles and 3D landscapes. Sometimes, parts of the build can be very repetitive and some might think boring whereas others will enjoy that repetitive nature of the build.

 

[jxu]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

Given how many second hand complete playsets are sold on bricklink, ebay, etc I doubt this is just display sets. People these days know that LEGO has more value if kept in the original set rather than mixing it up.

 

I thought for most sets (not old ones), sellers make more money selling parted out. For example, if I bought the Marilyn Monroe set and sold all the pink and medium azure tiles individually, I think I would profit. The drawback being it is much harder and takes much longer to sell individual parts. 

[koalayummies]

18 hours ago, jxu said:

 My point is not that display pieces are bad (in fact I love display pieces), but that Lego claims that you can make your own mosaics, but it's pointless to buy these sets to do that especially given the limited palette and tedious piece placement and price. As tedious as building from instructions is, making your own mosaic with actual parts would be 10x worse.

Oh yeah that is a fair point. Thanks for the clarification. Yeah they're not like the Go Brick Me Brickheadz set that was truly open-ended make-your-own-models.

[MAB]

2 hours ago, jxu said:

I thought for most sets (not old ones), sellers make more money selling parted out. For example, if I bought the Marilyn Monroe set and sold all the pink and medium azure tiles individually, I think I would profit. The drawback being it is much harder and takes much longer to sell individual parts. 

It depends what you mean by make more money. 

Selling sets as opposed to parting out means that you sell everything in one go, and you have to do very little work. Parting out means you have to spend time to part out the set, then pick orders as and when they come in and package many orders. While you might make more money as a percentage of what you paid for the set, you spend way more time doing it. If you factor out the time used, you earn far less per hour parting out than if you sell sets, even though you may make more money on that one set.

Then there is compounding. Even if you make only 20% after fees on selling a set, you can reinvest that in one go. Let's say it takes two months to sell the set and you reinvest it all. That means that you can make 1.2x1.2x1.2x1.2x1.2x1.2 your initial investment in a year. That is almost 3x your initial investment and you have sent six orders. Whereas if you part out, any minifigs and rarer parts might sell reasonably quickly, but the common parts will sit for a while unless priced very cheaply. Some parts won't sell no matter how cheap. It may appear to be a great idea to get inventory worth 2x what you paid, but it doesn't mean you will get that in money and also not in a necessary reasonable time. Of course, you can also reinvest money in dribs and drabs as you get orders. This of course is where it is better to have a large store so cashflow is more constant and you can buy larger sets with more sought after minifigures (which is where much of the money is). I don't think you'd make much at all parting out mosaics. The new base parts will probably sell well, but the plates/tiles not so well. If you buy it at the right time - before Christmas if it goes out of stock, or just before retirement, then you can sell it on quickly in one go at a decent profit. Of course, it is not so black and white, it all depends when you buy sets and what you pay. Parting out definitely gives you an inventory worth more per set, but not necessarily more money overall due to the lower turnover rate. And in terms of profit per hour of work, sets will nearly always beat parts unless you are able to buy expensive and good selling parts cheaply. 

It may seem that getting inventory worth 2.0x what you paid compared to selling as a whole set for 1.2x what you paid is a better deal. It isn't always, depending on how you sell.

Edited September 2, 2020 by MAB

[JintaiZ]

2 hours ago, jxu said:

I thought for most sets (not old ones), sellers make more money selling parted out. For example, if I bought the Marilyn Monroe set and sold all the pink and medium azure tiles individually, I think I would profit. The drawback being it is much harder and takes much longer to sell individual parts. 

It'd be easy to make profits right now since many of the colors are rare. However, it's fairly important to keep in mind that the value is very likely to drop significantly over time.

Edited September 2, 2020 by JintaiZ