Exclusive Train 10194 Emerald Night (Exclusive 2009)

[Legoist]

Sure I have, but it's also 102e for Ireland and 101e for Sweden. Overseas shipping bonus?

I have no clue... theoretically the shipping cost is added afterwards when you buy from S&H.

[MightySlickPancake]

i really dont think that price is very fair because the remote is very cheap and people will pay that and so is the reiciver

but the batary box is way over the top. i think way not buy emerald night because of the fact the pf are so expensive.

cb -but seeing the pf prices i really feal cb

[brickzone]

I have no clue... theoretically the shipping cost is added afterwards when you buy from S&H.

No theoretically about it! I have to pay €15 shipping here in Ireland as well for the privilege of buying the €102 set!

[CP5670]

The 7.4V is disappointing. That would make it less useful for Technic models as well. Some of the train components have always been very overpriced though. I think that battery box is still a much better deal than the old 9V speed regulator, which was a similar price for essentially just an on/off switch with a potentiometer.

The new controller is quite reasonably priced though. Most elements in the PF line have been significantly cheaper than their 9V counterparts, including the motors, polarity switches and lights.

I don't think the 7.4V will affect trains too much in comparison to the 9V system. The catalog suggests they will run off the XL motor, which is way more powerful than the older ones.

Edited March 27, 2009 by CP5670

[BryanKinkel]

Do the instructions include steps for adding a traditional 9V train motor to the tender? Even if they don't, I'm sure it is trivial to add. Just curious.

[Teddy]

The 7.4V is disappointing. That would make it less useful for Technic models as well. Some of the train components have always been very overpriced though. I think that battery box is still a much better deal than the old 9V speed regulator, which was a similar price for essentially just an on/off switch with a potentiometer.

The new controller is quite reasonably priced though. Most elements in the PF line have been significantly cheaper than their 9V counterparts, including the motors, polarity switches and lights.

I don't think the 7.4V will affect trains too much in comparison to the 9V system. The catalog suggests they will run off the XL motor, which is way more powerful than the older ones.

Dear CP5670,

as I wrote before regarding the 7.4V rechargeable battery in a 9V system.

It is usefull in the current technic system because a technic battery box with 6 1.5V regular AA batteries are only 9V in the beginning and quickly converges to 7.2V.

Kind regards,

Teddy

Dear Osakana,

normal unrechargeable AA batteries are only initially 1.5V, verry quickly the voltage will drop.

That is why you can replace them with rechargeable 1.2V AA batteries.

Normally in a battery box of Lego (like in the technic sets) you can put 6 AA batteries, amounding to 6x1.5 = 9V.

But this 9 Volt is only initially!

The combined batteries will verry quickly converge to around 7.2 Volt, and stay there untill the batteries are empty.

That is why you can also put 6 rechargeable AA batteries in the battery box, amounding to 6x1.2 = 7.2V.

Now if we replace the entire 6 AA box by a single box. It is reasonable to expect at least 7.2V of a rechargeable battery.

Lego provided us with 7.4V so that is more than sufficient.

Kind regards,

Teddy

[CP5670]

Dear CP5670,

as I wrote before regarding the 7.4V rechargeable battery in a 9V system.

It is usefull in the current technic system because a technic battery box with 6 1.5V regular AA batteries are only 9V in the beginning and quickly converges to 7.2V.

Kind regards,

Teddy

Yeah, but I generally don't like to use batteries in Technic models either for that reason. As I mentioned earlier though, the wall powered 9V sources provide more power than even a brand new set of 6x1.5V batteries.

I wonder what happens if you run motors off this PF battery pack while it's actually plugged in. If the battery pack can be simply used an interface for the transformer and output the full 9V, bypassing the actual battery completely, that would make it a lot more handy for me. (although it would be expensive if only used for that purpose)

[Teddy]

Yeah, but I generally don't like to use batteries in Technic models either for that reason. As I mentioned earlier though, the wall powered 9V sources provide more power than even a brand new set of 6x1.5V batteries.

I wonder what happens if you run motors off this PF battery pack while it's actually plugged in. If the battery pack can be simply used an interface for the transformer and output the full 9V, bypassing the actual battery completely, that would make it a lot more handy for me. (although it would be expensive if only used for that purpose)

Hi CP5670,

if you would drive them at 9V plugged powered, than the motors will have 21% more power available.

Which is quite a lot.

I think, if you want to interface the curren Pf whit the old 9V system it can be done fairly easy.

Basically we would need some metal surface on a pair of wheels, with either wheel connented to a pin of which we can get the current from the track.

And than just use these pins as the GND and 9V pins. A little soldiering on a contact will suffice.

Hope this helps?

Kind regards,

Johan

[Captain Zuloo]

I don't understand why the cost of this pf system is so high. I was under the impression that they scrapped the 9v line because it was too innapropriate for younger users.But what sort of 5 year old can afford a train, tracks, AND this completely overpriced battery box.

IMHO, a poor marketing move by LEGO.

[CP5670]

Hi CP5670,

if you would drive them at 9V plugged powered, than the motors will have 21% more power available.

Which is quite a lot.

I think, if you want to interface the curren Pf whit the old 9V system it can be done fairly easy.

Basically we would need some metal surface on a pair of wheels, with either wheel connented to a pin of which we can get the current from the track.

And than just use these pins as the GND and 9V pins. A little soldiering on a contact will suffice.

Hope this helps?

Kind regards,

Johan

To run the PF trains at 9V, you could just put them on 9V tracks and use a 9V motor to pick up power for the PF motor (so you would have two motors), although I don't know how well they would operate together. The existing PF extension cable lets you convert between 9V and PF, although it doesn't work on all PF components.

The XL motors are in fact used at 9V in Technic sets like 8275. (at least in principle; as you said, it will be in the 7-8V range after some use)

I don't understand why the cost of this pf system is so high. I was under the impression that they scrapped the 9v line because it was too innapropriate for younger users.But what sort of 5 year old can afford a train, tracks, AND this completely overpriced battery box.

IMHO, a poor marketing move by LEGO.

It does seem to defeat the point if the battery pack costs that much. However, it allows TLG to include the cheaper tracks with sets and sell the more expensive PF components separately.

Speaking of the tracks, one of the images posted on the last page suggest that the flexible track is the only kind of track in this system. Has that been confirmed?

Edited March 27, 2009 by CP5670

[Captain Zuloo]

Speaking of the tracks, one of the images posted on the last page suggest that the flexible track is the only kind of track in this system. Has that been confirmed?

I actually thought that the RC tracks would be used in conjunction with the flexi-track.

[legotrainfan]

I actually thought that the RC tracks would be used in conjunction with the flexi-track.

That's what I also assume. If the flexible tracks were the only types of tracks of that system, this would mean that switches wouldn't be available any more either. And what's a track layout without switches?

[CP5670]

You're right, I forgot that the RC track is compatible. However, the "Emerald Night collection" only includes the flexible track and nothing else, so does that mean it's intended to replace the straights and curves?

[Mirandir]

I understand that 9v-batteries fade to 7.4v after a short while. But am I the only one that's a bit concerned about the fact that LEGO feels the need to advertise that the output is 7.4v and not 9v? I get the impression that it means that the battery will actually be weaker than normal 9v batteries. It'll start out at 7.4v and maybe fade from there...

[Captain Zuloo]

...However, the "Emerald Night collection"...

Emerald Night Collection? Am I missing something? What is the Emerald Night Collection?

[Cavannus]

If i'm not mistaken the technologie in the Lego battery is slightly more advanced than that of the

NiMH batteries.

You're not! See below.

For example 6 good AA 2700mAh (this mAh number is the most important part! Indirectly gives the lifetime of the batterie with a single charge. The higher the mAh the better)

You are missing one parameter: the voltage (e.g. 7.4V).

You get the overall capacity in Watt/Hour by multiplying the capacity in Ampere/Hour and the overall voltage of the pack.

For instance, 6 AA batteries at 2300 mAh (i.e. 2.3 Ah) make:

6 cells x 1,2V x 2.3Ah = 16 Wh

This is in theory, you must add some loss factors due to the AA's NIMH technology.

7.4V is a standard voltage* for lithium-polymer (Li-Po) batteries -- one of the best technology for general public.

The box is expensive** because of:

1. The batteries inside that are expensive bare

2. The inclued charger

I mean the battery and its charger are both in the "Rechargeable Battery Box". It is the safest solution to protect against short circuits and overcharges.

But all this stuff is expensive indeed!

* 3.7V is the nominal voltage for one single Li-Po cell, so there are two in a 7.4V pack.

NiMH technology has less capacity for a given volume than Li-Po or Li-Ion, but it is cheaper and safer (you don't need a strong protection against shocks and short-circuits).

** I also expect a combo pack which include the led and all I need to motorize the train

Edited March 28, 2009 by Cavannus

[CP5670]

Emerald Night Collection? Am I missing something? What is the Emerald Night Collection?

It's a combo pack of the Emerald Night and all the PF parts. See this.

[Captain Zuloo]

Ah, thanks for that CP5670. Hmmm...

And the Emerald Night is now availible for preorder shipping on the 15th of next month.

[Cavannus]

It's a combo pack of the Emerald Night and all the PF parts. See this.

I've just ordered my Emerald Night today... Maybe I should have waited... No, I shouldn't have : anyway I'll buy the combo pack later at the same time as the 7641 "Pizza to go and eat on the Bus" and probably a few other sets in mid-2009.

Thanks for the scan!

[Teddy]

You are missing one parameter: the voltage (e.g. 7.4V).

You get the overall capacity in Watt/Hour by multiplying the capacity in Ampere/Hour and the overall voltage of the pack.

Dear Cavannus,

thanks for your reply.

I'm quite aware of P=VI.

I emphasized the mAh, since the voltage is standardized and the mAh is what is different when you buy AA (rechargeable) batteries in a store.

But, the main driver in how long you can use a batterie on a single charge is the actual load on which you connect the batterie.

So the more Energy or (since voltage is standardized) the more mAh the longer the batterie will last on a given load on a single charge.

I wasn't aware though that the standard voltage for a lithium-polymer cell was 3.7 V.

I just wanted to let all the Lego fans here know, that there is nothing wrong with a 7.4 V rechargeable batterie in what is supposed to be a 9V battery powered system.

---of topic---

I do think it is kind of disturbing though, that the energy density of the newest batteries is starting to approach the order of magnitude of the energie density of TNT explosives; +/_1MJ/kg vs 8.3MJ/kg.

Hopefully, the safety circuits work well on those new batteries in case of a shortcircuit or we might loose a train in spectacular fashion the future.

---on topic---

Kind regards,

Teddy

Edited March 28, 2009 by Teddy

[MightySlickPancake]

lego i cant belive that you lied to me . i called lego as i was sooo anxous to buy 10194 and lego said i will have to wait untill april 15 before pre order.but i will order straight away and i will be so so happy

cb

[Holodoc]

Ladies and Gentlemen, here´s what we were all waiting for:

The prices in Euro (valid for Germany):

now this is interesting:

Saving money ON!

[Klaus-Dieter]

Thank you very much for that news, Holodoc!

220 Euros as exceptional price?! Am I here in the wrong movie?!

A train with a locomotive that has no controls inside, a badly designed chimney and no doors, a tender without coal pieces and a dinig car with only two cups, no coffee machine or other accessory and only three minifigs. And for that and all the stuff that it is aible to drive 220 Euros?!

That's really usury! :angry:

Don't you realise that the only thing because of which this new train set looks so nice is the new driving function?!

Bad job, TLG! :thumbdown:

I surely won't buy this set with its PF additions to drive it - and I surely will even not make advertising since this is really usury.

I hope that we'll see some nice and affordable train sets next year!

Klaus-Dieter

Edited March 28, 2009 by Klaus-Dieter

[welcomestranger]

Oh my, all those flexi-tracks joined together looks DISGUSTING! Now instead of riding ON rails, our trains will be riding in the grooves... UGH! I better stock up on regular curves and straights now...

[Legoist]

Oh my, all those flexi-tracks joined together looks DISGUSTING! Now instead of riding ON rails, our trains will be riding in the grooves... UGH! I better stock up on regular curves and straights now...

There is no chance whatsoever that TLG would be so insane to discontinue normal tracks for flexitracks. The flexitrack is just an addition to give more freedom to layout designers, but alone it can't make a layout (no switching points, no crossroads) and it's more expensive than normal tracks.