Driver's Cabin

[legotrainfan]

This is not a question on LEGO trains but on real life trains. I hope it doesn't matter that I'm posting this here. If it does matter, I hope a moderator can move it to a more proper place.

I've always been wondering why American train types like the Maersk engine of the set that is being released soon have only got one driver's cabin at one end of the engine. In Europe there are often two driver's cabins, one at each end of the engine. So if engine drivers want to use the "reverse gear," they just change the cabin and can see all train signals perfectly. Even if the engine is going backwards, it can reach maximum speed. There's actually no difference between going backwards and forwards since one end of the engine looks like the other one.

I've been wondering if the Maerks engine in real life could go backwards at full speed and - if yes - if that would be more problematic for the engine driver than going forwards since his view is more limited. Are there any American engine drivers among us who could answer this question? I'm curious to know.

[LEGO Guy Bri]

I've always been wondering why American train types like the Maersk engine of the set that is being released soon have only got one driver's cabin at one end of the engine. In Europe there are often two driver's cabins, one at each end of the engine. So if engine drivers want to use the "reverse gear," they just change the cabin and can see all train signals perfectly. Even if the engine is going backwards, it can reach maximum speed. There's actually no difference between going backwards and forwards since one end of the engine looks like the other one.

I've been wondering if the Maerks engine in real life could go backwards at full speed and - if yes - if that would be more problematic for the engine driver than going forwards since his view is more limited. Are there any American engine drivers among us who could answer this question? I'm curious to know.

Interesting question 'LTF'. This is what I know:

With a cabin at both sides there is no need to turn locomotive. Many multiple units have cabs at both ends , the train may be reversed without uncoupling/re-coupling the locomotive, giving quicker turnaround times, reducing crew costs, and enhancing safety. In practice, the development of driving van trailers and cab cars has removed the need for locomotives to run-around, giving easy bi-directional working and removing this MU advantage.

As for speeds forward and backward. Yes I am very sure they can. I say this only on the fact that most of all modern diesel's are diesel-electric. Meaning diesel engine turns electric generator that powers the each wheel motor in the bogies. The diesel engine spins the generator one direction. That power that gets to the wheel motors spins in both; whichever way the current is flowing,even with diesel running at full it only powers the generator. Think of how a remote control car works. One battery power motor that spins both ways, no transmission. Its all done with current. Hope this answered your question.

[Dan-147]

North American practice is to use two, three, four and sometimes more engines (as required to get needed horsepower) at the head end of the train. The last unit is usually set to go "backwards" so that when the locomotives must change direction, the engineer moves to this unit and it becomes the front. Europeen locomotives, especially electric locomotives, are individually more powerful and the trains that they pull tend to be shorter so that only one locomotive is generally required. You can see that a cab at each end is almost required in Europe. Some North American railways (notably Union Pacific) did try Mega-Horsepower locomotives but they were less flexible and off-the-shelf than standard units so they fell out of favor. Cabless "B" units have also fallen out of favor as they were less flexible than standard units.

Hope this answers your question.

[3D LEGO]

That is indeed an intriguing question. Being from the USA, my personal observation and what I have learned, most all American locomotives are completely bi-directional. Yes you can run a GP7 or GP9, SD45, Dash 9, etc, backwards or forwards but visibility backwards is absurd, especially those with full width noses. Then again those who used the FPH40 used them in push-pull configurations all the time except Amtrak in their main line long haul trains.

The exception to American trains is that of electric locomotives [which I may remind you there have not been any built since the GE E60 (which was a failure as a passenger locomotive and only exists in land locked coal power plant railroads in Nevada and Utah)]. With exception of a few models, most had double cabs and if they only had single they were semi permanently coupled together.

But one thing to remember is that once a train leaves the yard in the USA or Canada, it can easily travel several hundred miles (a lot more kilometers...) before the locomotives will be switched out. And in the case of passenger service, even farther. Also I wouldn't say that European locomotives are necessarily any stronger. Mind you on average most European train cars are in fact considerably shorter in comparison to those found in the USA. Also they tend to carry less volume per car. I could almost say that two standard European tankcars equals one American one. You do not find 6 GE Dash 9s heading a mile (1.6km) plus coal train across Europe (I can only imagine what kind of mess that would make for traffic... )[The reason why we have been investing in tall rail for quite some time]. That or our notorious double-stack container trains which traverse almost completely East-West (east cost has a lot of twisty track and low tunnels that are not so friendly). These cars are a good 60ft plus in length (18.3m) each and when you take the entire length of the train, well that is quite the distance and lets not forget the weight either.

So for countries such as USA, Canada, Russia and China have to invest in very powerful equipment to move trains of longer length and larger capacity. In comparison countries such as those found in Europe where distances are shorter and turnover quicker, the locomotives are fewer in number, double cab and high performance engines.

So it is a tossup.

Side reference: The largest American Electric Locomotive user (no longer in existence) Google: "The Milwaukee Road Electrics" or use this link: Milaukee Road Electric Locomotives

One of my personal favorites: GE 2-D+D-2

[Andy Glascott]

An American style (and built) loco used for many years in Europe was the Irish Rail Class 121 (Wikipedia link) with a cab at one end. They were used for the best part of 40 years, and often in multiple to give a cab at each end of the unit because visibility was poor, or at least used cab-end forward only, which became more difficult as turntables vanished. Their last use (that I remember) was in conjunction with a DVT on the other end of the train to eliminate the need to turn.

Class 20's (Wikipedia again!)in the UK look broadly similar, and although rarely used nowdays are similarly used in pairs or cab end forward. En exception is at a cement works in the Hope Valley where they are allowed to work bonnet end first on the sidings because they have been adapted to have a video camera on the bonnet showing the track ahead to the driver.

Seems its all about visibility then!

Andy

[talltim]

In the early days of hood diesels in the US, common practise was to run long hood forward. The reasoning behind was was crash protection for the crew, this was in line with the design of steam locos where the boiler set the crew a fair way back. Gradually the thinking changed so that visibilty was considered more important so short hood forward has become the norm. Also the short hood has become lower (original hood units had tall short hoods). The Norfolk and Western Railway and the Southern Railway were the last to keep long hood forward.

Some locos have controls set up for one direction only, other have controls for both directions. As has been pointed out, using the locos in multiple means that there can be a cab at both ends of a lash-up. If, for some reason the loco's are couple nose to tail (elephant style) then they sometimes get turned as a set, on a wye, which are far more common in the US than the rest of the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_hood

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wye_(rail)

[Gioppa]

in Italy the station of big city like Milano central,Rome central,napoli,torino,firenze the rail stop in the station ,so when the train restart you have the loco at the end,but the operator decoupling the loco at the end and place a new one on the other side of the train,so the train can restart.

In the line between milano\roma there is two chainge of the loco(normal train)or there is high speed train(Freccia rossa)and have a loco at both end of the train.

For what I know about the italian railway there is not to much turnatable for train ,because the loco have two front.

[Legoless]

In the UK and other European countries it is common to have an electric locomotive at one end of a passenger train, and when reaching terminii, instead of the old time-consuming practice of running the locomotive around to the other end of the train, the driver simply walks to the other end, where there is a driving cab in the end carriage. Usually in the UK this carriage is used for storage/parcels rather than passengers, and is called a 'DVT' (Driving Van Trailer- it it has a driving cab, is a 'van' not a 'coach' and is not itself powered. DVTs commonly superficially resemble both the type of locomotives commonly used to power them and also match the type of coach used, eg Mark 3 or Mark 4).

The British Rail Class 91 locomotive is purpose-designed to work with DVTs. Although it looks like it only has one cab on the sloping end, there is another cab on the flat end of the loco in case it has to operate facing the 'wrong way'- albeit at reduced speed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_91

It has also become common for diesel-electric loco powered trains (now very much a minority) to be operated 'top and tail' with a loco at either end for the same reason. Control signals are sent via the coach wiring so there is no need for a driver to be present in the tail loco. 'Topping and tailing' has been brought about because of the resergence of rail travel in the UK has resulted in more congestion, therefore it saves considerable time (and track space) at terminii not to have to run locos around the train, as well as there being many surplus locomotives due to (ironically) the phasing out of loco haulage in favour of much more flexible and more efficient multiple units, as well as the import of more reliable heavy freight locos from America and Canada. Since most diesel-electrics can easily propel a train solo, it is very ineffient in terms of fuel use and maintainence costs to 'top and tail', and this practice reflects the slow process in introducing sufficient multiple units to meet demand.

Edited March 1, 2011 by Legoless

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Maybe in Europe there aren't so large open spaces like in America: in Italy (Milano Centrale or Roma Termini) the towns are all growned up around the station ...a second reason is that infrequently you can see more than one locomotive at the head of the train, so it's simple with two locomotives on both side of the train change direction.

[SavaTheAggie]

The cab always belongs on the back of the locomotive behind the boiler. I only know of a few engines that run cab forward.

--Tony

[peterab]

The cab always belongs on the back of the locomotive behind the boiler. I only know of a few engines that run cab forward.

--Tony

That's also an American thing There were many German steam engine designs with valve gear that allowed the same speed forwards and backwards. They were mostly used on branch lines to avoid the need for turntables (they were simply moved from one end of a train to the other when it changed direction). I'm pretty sure none of the express passenger engines with large drivers fell in this category though, as they were optimized for speed in only one direction.

[dr_spock]

The other factor could be cost and maintenance. It is cheaper to have one set of controls in one cab at one end and not have to duplicate at the other end of the loco if there is not a need for quick turn around.

Amtrak AEM7 had dual cabs too if I recall.