Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Vash the Stampede]

This game has ALWAYS taken place in 24 hours. If you need more time, you can petition for more time. In fact, we LET you do that, so it seems a silly thing to complain about now. That being said, if you'd like 72 hours, just say so, and we'll consider it!

Well 72 hours seems a tad exscessive but in order for the others to consider the plan I'm about to post (and trying to figure out a good way to get past this round the best way) I'd like to petition for another 48 hour time slot for this round.

It's nothing specific, for you or anyone else, but neither time the low-levelers have interacted with the other Quests have anyone paid any real attention to them--it's always "hey new people, just go exist over there while Mom and Dad (i.e. Cinna+Dreyrugr and either Hoke+Nerwen or Guts+Haldor) talk." These are some of the most promising new players I've seen in a LONG time, and many of the Heroes act as if they don't even exist! I can't speak for out-of-character, maybe it's a roleplaying choice, but in-character it makes the high-level Heroes seem incredibly arrogant, and even off-model for some (read: Dyric).

Well I can't speak for said newer heroes but I don't feel like they've been that ignored. In quest 90 they have made themselves well known and hey, even if no one really listened to Baradok most of the quest (or mostly just disagreeing with him) he went over to the enemies side for a battle. Roleplaying wise that I think had a rather large impact to the point where Dreyrugr whilst probably still disagreeing with him respects him for sticking up for his own ideals. And once again I can't speak for other people but I'm sure some other characters surely feel somewhat similar even if they don't show it. This just being one example, Purpearl has a slightly stronger voice and for most of the quest has spoken up and Matthias has also been up speaking.

For the most part it seems that you're just basing this on this last battle where all the heroes are on the bridge, although with a good 20+ heroes (I'm just guessing, don't quote me on this) people are not going to be heard. Dreyrugr although not a low level hero, has himself has put forth ideas or thoughts that have been completely ignored both in and out of character, and I'm sure others have also been ignored that are also not newer characters. To add to this it seems quite obvious everyone is a tad stressed and thus not everyone quite happy in one way or another and it really is showing in more ways than one, mostly through a very chaotic mindset (I'd hate to see what would happen if we were all around a table worrying about it in real time seeing how even with several days of thinking and rest people are very stressed and going overboard in some cases)

For the most part I think you only see it this way because you've really been keeping an eye on the new guys so forgive me for feeling a tad annoyed when it feels like you're pointing fingers.

I know a lot is at stake, but above all else it's bugging me how unenjoyable this seems for everyone. A lot is on the line here. It's supposed to be a grueling final battle that you can later brag about. But it should still be reasonably fun, and I don't think whatever rulings or mechanics we include have the potential to sap all enjoyment out of everyone.

Except for these last buffed to infinity enemies (which are a tad excessive seeing how the back row was effectively taken out) it is enjoyable enough. I'm hoping its just everyone being a tad stressed out from these last enemies and feeling like they hold the entire high kingdoms on their shoulders due to everything leading up to this and the story going in the direction of our results. I could be wrong but after this is all over I think those involved will look back a bit brighter about feeling good about how we held back/defeated two armies vastly outnumbered.

Dreyrugr was lucky and an assassin.

Dreyrugr is a black knight.

Is he?

Indeed he is but comparing the damage on Dreyrugr's and Guts' shields Dreyrugr is only 68 damage behind (not an AOE but still) so for your average mook that might as well be an Assassin.

[StickFig]

I stuck weaker foes with lust in, and those horses, but ... AoE is very difficult to balance against.

Once the hitpoints/healthpoints controversy of the horses was worked out, I realized I actually really like that mechanism as a balancing agent. Taking hastened away from enemies is important, and hitting horses is (at this point, since they're not immune to everything and have no SP) doable.

Just had this thought: what if those weaker, balancing agent-types were immune to AoE? I'm sure I've seen enemies like that in one of the Baltarok quests but I can't find it right now.

[CMP]

Just had this thought: what if those weaker, balancing agent-types were immune to AoE? I'm sure I've seen enemies like that in one of the Baltarok quests but I can't find it right now.

Yeah, those vines were more or less there to give you guys something to do and keep Guts from stealing your kills.

[StickFig]

Yeah, those vines were more or less there to give you guys something to do and keep Guts from stealing your kills.

Hooray for vine-slaying minions!

We do appreciate having something to do.

[CMP]

Hooray for vine-slaying minions!

We do appreciate having something to do.

May be that it's difficult to keep you guys in the loop of things as far as balance goes, but at least you'll get to say that you got to kill two armies on your very first Quest. Certainly puts killing sheep and sifting through crates into perspective.

[Zepher]

The War Dogs were also AoE immune!

If my heroes had acted differently, the War Dogs would be here. So blame them and their nasty Paladin hating/Nord loving habit!

Edited April 22, 2014 by Zepher

[Cutcobra]

Damn sun. Can't we just turn it off with some Holy Water?

[Waterbrick Down]

You're all good. Except the QMs. Screw those guys.

Sounds like we're doing our job. Honestly, I'm with Zepher in that as QM's we generally over-react to things because we don't want to feel like anyone is being specifically singled out, especially newer players, because honestly we like new people, it's how the game grows and we don't want them being discouraged because they haven't grown accustomed to playing with some of our more intense players. Out of all this, we want folks to have fun and have a great story to tell win or lose. Heroica RPG is not simulationist in that we as QM's generally want our players to beat us, realistically we want to make your victory challenging and therefor more savory, but deep down we're generally a biased group. One note on strategy I've perceived at least in the current battle is that the orcs have had a steady increase in the difficulty of the enemies, the kingdoms started out with cannon fodder and are now bringing out the big guns. Difficulty wise the two situations are equal, one is just perceived more challenging due to the timing of things.

[Vash the Stampede]

OoC: As to the health of black knights, Vash, I am sure I would have forgotten it if I had been QMing you up to this point (I don't even know if I saw the rules change!) so in general it's easier if you check the results. QMs SHOULD be on the ball, but we are humans, and while you only have to keep track of the rules for one class, we need to keep track of the rules for all of them.

I wasn't pointing fingers at anyone, I myself forgot so expecting the QM who already has to juggle a bunch would be hypocritical. It was more of a statement that I completely forgot about it and I'm 90% sure some of my quests would have been a lot easier had I remembered. Ah well. Better go reread my class abilities.

[UsernameMDM]

The War Dogs were also AoE immune!

If my heroes had acted differently, the War Dogs would be here. So blame them and their nasty Paladin hating/Nord loving habit!

Hey now! The Nords listened to reason, and the Paladins did not!

Tarokin Dyrok C *Immune to instant kill, blinded, fragile, weakened, and asleep* *Returning Damage*

Level 60 Humanoid

Health: 850/850

Defense: 15

Special: Gaushrahk – Orc Dyrok returns all damage dealt to him for the duration of the next round, ignoring row and defense.

Drops: Elixir, Heavy Armor

So if this guy is hit with an AoE (Spell Spin), does he return damage or is it just from normal attacks?

[CMP]

So if this guy is hit with an AoE (Spell Spin), does he return damage or is it just from normal attacks?

Returns all damage.

[UsernameMDM]

Returns all damage.

I hate you.

[CMP]

I hate you.

Luckily darkness damage doesn't do any additional damage to heroes. You'll survive.

...Unless you hit him twice.

[Endgame]

At least you guys aren't fighting an invincible sun.

[StickFig]

Luckily darkness damage doesn't do any additional damage to heroes.

I think I'm confusted again - why would that matter? It only matters if the damage is dealt to Tarokin Dyrok C and he will return it, right?

Say he takes 100 damage from an attack, regardless of how that 100 number is arrived at, he returns 100 direct damage to the heroes, right? Or do I not understand how "returns damage" works?

[CMP]

I think I'm confusted again - why would that matter? It only matters if the damage is dealt to Tarokin Dyrok C and he will return it, right?

Say he takes 100 damage from an attack, regardless of how that 100 number is arrived at, he returns 100 direct damage to the heroes, right? Or do I not understand how "returns damage" works?

Actually, yeah, that's correct. I got the idea from the Iris Shield. The hero's attack on him takes row and defense and such into account, then he deals that damage back ignoring it.

[UsernameMDM]

Luckily darkness damage doesn't do any additional damage to heroes. You'll survive.

Are you SURE?!?!?! Super sure?

[CMP]

Are you SURE?!?!?! Super sure?

Yeah, on the count of darkness not being strong against heroes, but like nstickney said, you're dealing 176 damage to him, you're dead anyway.

Edited April 22, 2014 by CallMePie

[UsernameMDM]

Yeah, on the count of darkness not being strong against heroes, but like nstickney said, you're dealing 176 damage to him, you're dead anyway.

That's what I meant. Glad I asked!

[The Legonater]

I've largely been keeping out of this discussion, but to be honest I'm not a fan of this ruling on Hastened either, I've never seen it run this way, and it's this ruling that makes stuff like sacrificing players necessary in the first place, which I definitely feel should be limited if possible.

What has Hoke done for the newbies, hmm? It's nothing specific, for you or anyone else, but neither time the low-levelers have interacted with the other Quests have anyone paid any real attention to them--it's always "hey new people, just go exist over there while Mom and Dad (i.e. Cinna+Dreyrugr and either Hoke+Nerwen or Guts+Haldor) talk." These are some of the most promising new players I've seen in a LONG time, and many of the Heroes act as if they don't even exist! I can't speak for out-of-character, maybe it's a roleplaying choice, but in-character it makes the high-level Heroes seem incredibly arrogant, and even off-model for some (read: Dyric).

I'm sorry? I'll grant you I haven't exactly been the biggest conversationalist, but Dyric really has never talked to people until going into a quest with them, Arthur being one of the few exceptions. Even then, Dyric actively tried to assist in the younger team's goal, and took a shining to at least a few of them.

[CMP]

I've largely been keeping out of this discussion, but to be honest I'm not a fan of this ruling on Hastened either, I've never seen it run this way, and it's this ruling that makes stuff like sacrificing players necessary in the first place, which I definitely feel should be limited if possible.

That's the way I've always seen it run.

It's in the FAQ under effects.

[Endgame]

I've use dit a half a dozen times, and its always been like that.

[Zepher]

I really like how it is. From both a player stand-point and a QM standpoint, it is easy, straight-forward, and gives a challenge to either offer (QM) or to strategize around (as a player).

There has never been an issue before with it. Rarely will we see this many enemies with hastened.

I think maybe ya'll should be rallying against my enemies instead of the buff.

[UsernameMDM]

Well 72 hours seems a tad exscessive but in order for the others to consider the plan I'm about to post (and trying to figure out a good way to get past this round the best way) I'd like to petition for another 48 hour time slot for this round.

I'd rather go back to 24 hr rule. Looks like there may be another battle to fight after this one.

Edited April 22, 2014 by UsernameMDM

[Waterbrick Down]

I really like how it is. From both a player stand-point and a QM standpoint, it is easy, straight-forward, and gives a challenge to either offer (QM) or to strategize around (as a player).

There has never been an issue before with it. Rarely will we see this many enemies with hastened.

I think maybe ya'll should be rallying against my enemies instead of the buff.

Most of the time hastened enemies are dealt with just like cases where # of monsters > # of PC's. Just stick the most tanky player in the beginning of the battle order and let them absorb the free hit. Only on extremely rare cases do you see this many hastened enemies that are also encouraged and thus able to even take out the tank.