Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flipz]

Speaking of Black knights who're very good at one thing but may have neglected flexibility in their builds Nah, I think Flipz has enough build analysis requests for today

Nah, Sarge has lots of flexibility. Dual-strike + Hastened means you can spread out your damage or focus down on a single target, and your shield is a nice touch, too. The only thing is, if you're going for Vindicator (which I think you've stated you are?), you'll need new Bodywear. You've got a couple of other Artifacts that you might want to sell off as well, since they're either comparatively useless to you; the Monkey Armor is okay overall but kind of useless for a Black Knight unless you can give it a Stunned immunity, and it's unsuitable for Vindicators, and the headdress and plectrum are outright unusable for you or any of your available classes; all three are good enough to sell to Heroes, though, and I'm pretty sure it won't be hard to find at least someone in the market. Other than that, though, you're pretty set; maybe buy some of the Oaths dropped on 132 and you're ready for anything.

Thoughts on Kiray's build, Flipz? Or is it somewhat similar to Lind's?

Kiray's got a fantastic tank build, and it actually works all right with Black Knight. She takes half damage from Free Hits (SUPER powerful, probably the strongest Artifact in the game short of the Boots of Evasion or Lucky Die) and a VERY strong armor set in the Never Blessed pack. (Shame Zeph didn't make it an actual set like the Dastan stuff, but then again that Quest happened before armor sets really started to become a thing. ) You've also got a lot of shields, but unfortunately you're sort of stuck using the strongest one despite it having no extra effect. Give it another Quest or so, but if you hit 25 without any better drops I'd spend a little cash upgrading one of the other shields, just so you have one that's doing something for you, and maybe look into some more weapons upgrades. You've already added some DoT to the Smith's Katana; if you really like the weapon, it *might* be a good Everlasting Venom candidate if you don't mind ripping off Boomingham's build, but of course like the shields I'd give it another Quest or two just to be sure.

You know, someone could make some serious money if they developed a scroll of "Undead repair."

And with the fear of scything reply, what do you think of Vindsval the Poisoner and his completely Witch-0-centric build Master Flipz?

You sort of have a similar situation to Lind for a similar reason; MoG=substandard loot pool for your level. It's mitigated somewhat by your starting later with it and by Benji already having poured a lot of resources into the Medal (meaning it actually does work rather than just being a level-buffer), but really your build isn't going to come into its own until you hit 30 and can equip the hood and/or Witch's Talisman on top of your gloves and mail. Aside from that, some more Scrolls would help, but other than that just focusing on acquiring capital (Gold, standard consumables, etc.) would be a good idea so that you have the material assets to wheel and deal with the Expert Class tier of Heroes; you have decent resources for a 20s-Level character...if you were around Level 22-24 and were leveling normally, but your level growth is outpacing your available resources.

Umm.... thanks

One question about builds and job classes - what advanced job class do you think suits Avalanche with his current build? I was thinking Raider but am open to change...

Avalanche has a very generic build at the moment. I couldn't see him going Battle Mage, but I think he could really go into any other class.

Yeah, all the Ether stuff has never really appealed to me - unnecessary complications IMO

Your build is very generic, but that's fine for a character that's sub-15. Raider would probably be your best option; you've already ruled out Shaman and Battle Mage, and Berserker is a bad idea if you don't have enough Artifact-based SP and immunities to back it up (Berserkers basically have to commit to taking a TON of punishment thanks to the "no target switching" clause). That leaves Hunter and Raider, and while a melee-based Hunter would be really cool to see, it does benefit from a more focused build than what Avalanche has right now.

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Yeah I'm sure, both because it's good stats-wise, but also because he got given it by the Maginastra (quest 32, basically him and Erik got on well), so RP reasons.

Ah well. Anyone else got a Hexing weapon?

[The Chosen Minifigure]

How's this? It's part of a quest reward, and is a mixture of a lot of items obtained over the quest, that are all very rare (e.g. Dragon Blood, Ancient Scroll etc, etc).

GOLIATH RUM-Provides Poisoned-10, Cursed, Encouraged, Hastened, Lucky, Inspired, Blessed, Transcended, Nimble, and immune to Magic for one battle).

[Lind Whisperer]

How's this? It's part of a quest reward, and is a mixture of a lot of items obtained over the quest, that are all very rare (e.g. Dragon Blood, Ancient Scroll etc, etc).

Does Dragon Blood grant anything?

That would be interesting, if the quest revolved around gathering ingredients - consume them now, and reap the benefits now, or wait and see what could be made...

Hmmm...

Provides Poisoned-10

Is the drink supposed to poison the drinker?

[The Chosen Minifigure]

Does Dragon Blood grant anything?[/font]

I don't think so, but I've got it down for encouraged and hastened.

That would be interesting, if the quest revolved around gathering ingredients - consume them now, and reap the benefits now, or wait and see what could be made...

It's sorta like that, exept you're gathering ingredients for an employer.

Hmmm...

Is the drink supposed to poison the drinker?

Yes. I didn't want it too ridiculously powerful.

[Khorne]

*reads all of Flipz' character analyses and suggestions*

Wow, Flipz. All that RP and build knowledge, you really are the resident Munchkin .

[The Chosen Minifigure]

*reads all of Flipz' character analyses and suggestions*

Wow, Flipz. All that RP and build knowledge, you really are the resident Munchkin .

Heh.

Flipz, how could I augment my build to torture you further, keeping in mind that I've also got a cape of deception and counterstrike gloves in reserve?

[Flipz]

Heh.

Flipz, how could I augment my build to torture you further, keeping in mind that I've also got a cape of deception and counterstrike gloves in reserve?

Buy Grimwald's SP-piercing broom. Observe as I cry myself to sleep at night.

Also:

*Immune to Sudden Death and All Negative Effects*

This is way, WAY too friggin' common in recent Quests. WAY WAY WAY too common. Like, stupidly overcommon. Stahp. Please. Before this trend gets even worse.

[KotZ]

Kiray's got a fantastic tank build, and it actually works all right with Black Knight. She takes half damage from Free Hits (SUPER powerful, probably the strongest Artifact in the game short of the Boots of Evasion or Lucky Die) and a VERY strong armor set in the Never Blessed pack. (Shame Zeph didn't make it an actual set like the Dastan stuff, but then again that Quest happened before armor sets really started to become a thing. ) You've also got a lot of shields, but unfortunately you're sort of stuck using the strongest one despite it having no extra effect. Give it another Quest or so, but if you hit 25 without any better drops I'd spend a little cash upgrading one of the other shields, just so you have one that's doing something for you, and maybe look into some more weapons upgrades. You've already added some DoT to the Smith's Katana; if you really like the weapon, it *might* be a good Everlasting Venom candidate if you don't mind ripping off Boomingham's build, but of course like the shields I'd give it another Quest or two just to be sure.

It's weird, all the characters I make in any game seem to become tanks. I love the pauldrons, and once Kiray hits 20 she can put the helmet back on. The shields are something I want to figure out, but I'm bound to fix it somehow within the next two quests. I was considering adding the Everlasting Venom to the katana, and I just checked Boomingham's build, but I'd prefer to wait for a little while. I've been sitting on this thing for a whole year and still haven't found the right weapon for it.

The drops for 136 have definitely been great for me so far, so even i I don't pick up a new weapon or shield I'm not too bummed.

[Asphalt]

Thanks Flipz, pretty much what I expected to hear. Like you said, once I hit 30 I plan on swapping out my accessories and adding either the hood or something to boost my SP.

[Kintobor]

This is way, WAY too friggin' common in recent Quests. WAY WAY WAY too common. Like, stupidly overcommon. Stahp. Please. Before this trend gets even worse.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

[Dragonfire]

Your build is very generic, but that's fine for a character that's sub-15. Raider would probably be your best option; you've already ruled out Shaman and Battle Mage, and Berserker is a bad idea if you don't have enough Artifact-based SP and immunities to back it up (Berserkers basically have to commit to taking a TON of punishment thanks to the "no target switching" clause). That leaves Hunter and Raider, and while a melee-based Hunter would be really cool to see, it does benefit from a more focused build than what Avalanche has right now.

Thanks

[Lind Whisperer]

This is way, WAY too friggin' common in recent Quests. WAY WAY WAY too common. Like, stupidly overcommon. Stahp. Please. Before this trend gets even worse.

Seconded heartily. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[The Legonater]

This is way, WAY too friggin' common in recent Quests. WAY WAY WAY too common. Like, stupidly overcommon. Stahp. Please. Before this trend gets even worse.

Speaking as an Assassin, this always gets me. I understand for bosses and maybe some more powerful units, but when I've walked into way too many battles whee 80% or more of the enemies are totally immune when they aren't that much of a threat. The whole shtick of Assassin is instant kill, and we feel pretty useless when that gets taken away.

[Zepher]

I agree. I've tried my best to get better at it, and I actually don't mind it in some battles (136, for example, is going to be a rough ride, but that whole quest has been - I'll talk about that at the end, but while it's been frustrating it's been more than worth it, in my opinion). I will say as a QM, it takes a LONG time to figure out how to balance for insane parties without slapping that on. It's important to realize that a lot of heroes can dish out absurd damage, and effects, and many in AoE ways. Figuring out the balance between taking away too much agency from the party v. taking away the enemies ability to act... it takes a really long time. I'm still working on it. So for newer QMs, I totally understand that stance.

[Asphalt]

Enemies who are immune to a class based skill in general are very agravating.

[Zepher]

Heroes who are immune to enemy specials are very aggravating.

[Scubacarrot]

Enemies that are immune to any attack you have are annoying.

[Palathadric]

Enemies who refuse to be converted by Pretzel are the worst!

[UsernameMDM]

Pretzel is the worst.

[KotZ]

Pretzel is worse than Baba or a Bonaparte.

[Flipz]

On the one hand, I'm honored Zeph considers my Spider Leg to be on par with Lifestealer in balance terms; on the other, I'd like to get to actually use the blasted thing. But it's all good, now seems like a great time to use my Trident and Clockwork Lance.

Incidentally, this is a good example of what I mean by flexibility; even if a QM counterbalances my main attack option, I'm never completely shut down; there's always something I can do to contribute to the team. *Immune to negative effects*, especially on top of other shut-down techniques like Ancient, Immune to Sudden Death, and Ethereal, do way more than just counterbalance one or two powerful Heroes, they shut down entire parties. Stacked "cant touch this" enemies basically say to the party "hey, remember when you were Level 1 and basically did jack squat to enemies? Welcome baaaaack!" That's one reason I front-loaded the weapons in 141; I wanted my Level 1 players to be able to feel like they could contribute to battles beyond "I attack with my dinky basic weapon and hope that I get lucky with all my rolls".

For clarity, I'm not complaining about a specific fight, I'm complaining that I'm seeing this across a LOT of recent fights, to the point where it's almost a common occurrence. That robs the technique of its power (instead of making the enemy intimidating, it makes me go "oh, look, the QM must like that one", the whole "when everyone's super" deal), and it makes battles BORING, which is something that in my opinion should be avoided at all costs.

[Endgame]

The thing that I've learned with immunties is that, utlimately, as long as there are more enemies than heroes at the start, giving the heroes the ability to cast status ailments and sudden death on them really doesn't do much in terms of making the battle a cakewalk. It does, however, go a long way in improving the experience of the player.

[Palathadric]

Pretzel is worse than Baba or a Bonaparte.

That just hurts.

[Asphalt]

Pretzels are best served warm, with pub mustard.