Heroica RPG General Discussion

[CMP]

But their examples in the monsters page are identical?

[Flipz]

For reference:

IMO, the "Demon/Dark" label indicates that they're the same thing, though I can understand from a QM perspective wanting to keep Skrall from completely tearing through all the enemies. (Then again, he always seems to get the worst rolls... )

I'd like to wait for a Sandy clarification before we run the Round, if that's all right with everyone else in this sub-party. I don't mind (thinking from a QM standpoint) if Dark and Demon are two different types of enemies for Marking the Favored purposes, but if that's the case I think all types (other than Undead, Ancient, and Etherial) could use an "alternate" classification.

EDIT: Oooh, great idea: what if Demons deal normal damage on a Damage or Counter roll, but Dark enemies deal Darkness-elemental damage? (And obviously a similar thing for each of the other Elements.) That would simultaneously allow for "variant" types AND make elemental immunities a LOT more useful.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Flipz

[Zepher]

Confusing to QM and makes immunities too powerful. Darkness enemies are different from demons, I just can't remember exactly how, but as always we'll wait for Sandy to clarify for safety's sake.

[CMP]

Monster types don't automatically deal damage with the element closest to their type, though, it's just for specified elements in Special Skills (ie, Zander's first special deals electric damage), if that's you mean. If that was the case, I'd agree, elemental immunities would be very overpowered.

I mean, if you were just to specify somewhere that 'So-and-so Enemy deals _____ Elemental damage' it would make things a lot less complex than tying monster types to elements.

Edited January 6, 2013 by CallMePie

[Flipz]

Monster types don't automatically deal damage with the element closest to their type, though, it's just for specified elements in Special Skills (ie, Zander's first special deals electric damage), if that's you mean. If that was the case, I'd agree, elemental immunities would be very overpowered.

I mean, if you were just to specify somewhere that 'So-and-so Enemy deals _____ Elemental damage' it would make things a lot less complex than tying monster types to elements.

No, he's responding to the edit to my post, where I suggested such a concept. I don't see it as OP, so long as there are also monster variants that deal physical damage instead.

That said, your way is a lot simpler.

[swils]

I think Flipz meant that, say, the current classification of "Icy" monsters would continue to deal physical damage, while the new alternate type, "Ice" monsters (Seen as "Icy/Ice", like "Demon/Darkness") would deal ice damage on free hits. "Flying/Air", "Aquatic/Water", etc. Having an alternate label would globalize/standardize the ability of a creature to deal physical or elemental damage in such a way as could be easily and immediately recognized.

That said, I think such a mechanic is, at least for now, best suited to being listed as a Special Passive on a per-enemy basis.

[Flipz]

I think Flipz meant that, say, the current classification of "Icy" monsters would continue to deal physical damage, while the new alternate type, "Ice" monsters (Seen as "Icy/Ice", like "Demon/Darkness") would deal ice damage on free hits. "Flying/Air", "Aquatic/Water", etc. Having an alternate label would globalize/standardize the ability of a creature to deal physical or elemental damage in such a way as could be easily and immediately recognized.

That said, I think such a mechanic is, at least for now, best suited to being listed as a Special Passive on a per-enemy basis.

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say.

[CMP]

The different between E and Y should not be the difference between total immunity to that enemy or being OHKO'd because you thought you were, in my eyes.

It's just up to the QMs to start using elemental damages in Special Skills more often. It would make elemental immunity a better investment.

[swils]

The different between E and Y should not be the difference between total immunity to that enemy or being OHKO'd because you thought you were, in my eyes.

It's just up to the QMs to start using elemental damages in Special Skills more often. It would make elemental immunity a better investment.

Frosty/Ice, then I had a little blurb in there about how Icy/Ice was probably the worst example, but typed over it, meaning to rewrite it... never did. Oops.

I'd agree, more elemental special damages would be good, but I have also liked the idea of elemental free hits/damage rolls for quite some time. Certainly not applied across the board (as in, all Flying types deal air damage), but in fitting situations.

[Pyrovisionary]

I think Quest 42 has got to be the most paranoid and stingy party of all time.

I completely agree! For anyone who hasn't read quest 42, we battled some shop keepers then tried to raid the kiosks. After around a page of Erdy arguing with a passive remaining shopkeeper, we didn't get any loot. Now, we are being charged an entrance fee, which we don't want topay. 1 page later we give up and pay it. Now we're asking for a tour.

[Sandy]

Yeah, the Bladerang (and Cat o'Nine Tails) deal effects and have the potential to assassinate all enemies if the roll is successful. I had thought that dual-strike weapons acted differently, but now that I think about it they really don't. Should effects/assassinations count for two targets with those, provided the hits are distributed to two enemies?

When Hybros has attacked with the Twin Kunai, I've rolled for the assassination attempt for both targets separately. He just hasn't succeeded in it for quite a while.

Speaking of which, Skrall IS favoring both types these enemies have, correct? I'd like a confirmation just to make sure my calculations are running correctly.

IMO, the "Demon/Dark" label indicates that they're the same thing, though I can understand from a QM perspective wanting to keep Skrall from completely tearing through all the enemies. (Then again, he always seems to get the worst rolls... )

I'd like to wait for a Sandy clarification before we run the Round, if that's all right with everyone else in this sub-party. I don't mind (thinking from a QM standpoint) if Dark and Demon are two different types of enemies for Marking the Favored purposes, but if that's the case I think all types (other than Undead, Ancient, and Etherial) could use an "alternate" classification.

Demons and dark enemies share the same elemental properties, but I'd say that in Hunter's case he cannot favour both at the same time (unless he has the Hunter's Quiver, of course). If he favours demons, he can only deal triple damage to enemies that are specifically categorized as demons. The same applies to any weapons that deal extra damage to specific types.

The reason I created the "dark" enemy type is that I wanted to add enemies who are aligned with darkness, but are not demons.

EDIT: Oooh, great idea: what if Demons deal normal damage on a Damage or Counter roll, but Dark enemies deal Darkness-elemental damage? (And obviously a similar thing for each of the other Elements.) That would simultaneously allow for "variant" types AND make elemental immunities a LOT more useful.

Waah, too complex!

If a QM wants an enemy to deal elemental damage, he can just put a note on the enemy saying it does.

[Scorpiox]

Demons and dark enemies share the same elemental properties, but I'd say that in Hunter's case he cannot favour both at the same time (unless he has the Hunter's Quiver, of course). If he favours demons, he can only deal triple damage to enemies that are specifically categorized as demons. The same applies to any weapons that deal extra damage to specific types.

The reason I created the "dark" enemy type is that I wanted to add enemies who are aligned with darkness, but are not demons.

So, would Zoot er Isen deal quadrouple damage to a Demon/Dark, or just double?

[Sandy]

So, would Zoot er Isen deal quadrouple damage to a Demon/Dark, or just double?

Has there been any "demon/dark" type enemies in the game? But yeah, if there was such an oxymoronic enemy, a light-elemental spell or weapon would do quadruple damage to it - just as darkness does quadruple damage to "holy/humanoid"-type enemies, for example.

I might change some of the elemental weaknesses and immunities for the enemy types sometime in the future to further distinguish the types from each other, but I think people have most of them memorized by now so I don't want to mix things up too badly...

[CorneliusMurdock]

I did, I just accidentally hid it and made it seem like it was opening the post.

As in, the health will be subtracted from you guys. Again, good luck!

Oh, you guy. Good to know. Makes a huge difference.

I think Alexis would be best throwing on that Lens. With four actions a turn, she could put half the enemy party to sleep while Cronk and the others hack up those who aren't.

Wouldn't even be able to wake them with any AoE attacks due to the Magician's Passive.

That's not a bad idea. She'll have to take a turn to switch it in but sleep is one of the few things that all but the magician (and we can absorb her free hits easily) are susceptible to. I'd like to give her a chance to summon something that could pound on Zander first. Plus I've set already optimized the free hits this round. So we can start next round.

[Flare]

I might change some of the elemental weaknesses and immunities for the enemy types sometime in the future to further distinguish the types from each other, but I think people have most of them memorized by now so I don't want to mix things up too badly...

Please don't, it will make it really confusing.

[JimBee]

When Hybros has attacked with the Twin Kunai, I've rolled for the assassination attempt for both targets separately. He just hasn't succeeded in it for quite a while.

Oh.

[Flipz]

And now we see why the "Dark vs. Demon" discussion. WBD obviously had the same train of thought as I did in strategy.

[The Legonater]

Quest 53: Well. There goes one brilliant scheme down the drain.

[Scorpiox]

OOC: Zane's dead. He's a Demon Humanoid, and Skrall favors both types, so it's an x6 multiplier instead of x3, which means he dealt 630 damage. Zane's dead, sorry!

Seriously?! Skrall is a freakin' boss!

Edited January 6, 2013 by Scorpiox

[Pandora]

Zepher, can I just clarify: If we attack Zee any and all attacks will be redirected, up until there are only soulless enemies. And for them all to be soulless we have to kill all the enemies at least once. And if we kill the soulless enemies again, do they get reincarnated again?

11 enemies, 10 of whom who likely have to be killed at twice, and one of whom can't be killed until we've killed 10 at least once.

Zepher, words fail me.

[The Legonater]

Zepher, can I just clarify: If we attack Zee any and all attacks will be redirected, up until there are only soulless enemies. And for them all to be soulless we have to kill all the enemies at least once. And if we kill the soulless enemies again, do they get reincarnated again?

11 enemies, 10 of whom who likely have to be killed at twice, and one of whom can't be killed until we've killed 10 at least once.

Zepher, words fail me.

We also have a lucky, hastened Assassin with the Cat 'O' Nine Tails. I think we'll do fine.

EDIT: I take it all back

Edited January 6, 2013 by The Legonater

[Flipz]

QM Note: Will fix, TBW.

"Oh, and he also told me to tell you to go get a pike and shove it up an orifice on your body where it doens't belong. Cheers."

Not a feather duster?

Zepher, can I just clarify: If we attack Zee any and all attacks will be redirected, up until there are only soulless enemies. And for them all to be soulless we have to kill all the enemies at least once. And if we kill the soulless enemies again, do they get reincarnated again?

11 enemies, 10 of whom who likely have to be killed at twice, and one of whom can't be killed until we've killed 10 at least once.

Zepher, words fail me.

No, you have to kill the ten enemies ONE PER ROUND, AND get Zee to do Special Damage six times. At that point, all of the soulless enemies will disappear (or if Zee is dead).

Also, once Soulless, the enemies can't be killed again.

It's like the Quest 38 Priest battle taken Up To Eleven! (Though that WAS my least favorite battle of all time... )

Edited January 6, 2013 by Flipz

[CMP]

This battle would be hard if we had the entire party with us.

[Zepher]

There's a strategy to it, but yes, if you just bash enemies, that's what it would look like.

Again, these battles were not balanced for there to be only four of you, so I'm sorry about that. But as the Queen, she's the hardest of the three that you've encountered as well.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Zepher

[Pyrovisionary]

If anyone's reading #42, we've run into a real morale dilemma. We need to coax an apple off of a living tree.