Heroica RPG General Discussion

[Flipz]

I have come to the conclusion that whole-party effect specials are the most dangerous thing ever.

Eeeexcellent...

[Scorpiox]

I have come to the conclusion that whole-party effect specials are the most dangerous thing ever.

Eeeexcellent...

Except supposedly helpful shields and mirror effects.

[Flipz]

Except supposedly helpful shields and mirror effects.

Yeah, you're right, Special Mirror is just plain nasty.

[Waterbrick Down]

Yeah, you're right, Special Mirror is just plain nasty.

Only when the QM comes up with Specials that actually hurt his own enemies.

Edited April 9, 2013 by Waterbrick Down

[Zepher]

Atramor, you may want to tag along with the next Russel Quest.

[CMP]

Atramor, you may want to tag along with the next Russel Quest.

See, from you, that's like a giant warning that I shouldn't.

I will try to anyway, obviously.

[Dannylonglegs]

After all this time I still don't get what the mission in quest #62 is.

Well here's the paragraph from page 3 where it was stated:

"Thank heavens you’ve come. You are, in-fact, quite needed. First, let me explain to you the situation. I’ll try not to bore you with the minutia of my arrangement with the Local Noble, Lord Brenden II, but essentially, I got the idea for this endeavor several months ago from my wife, Ave, noting the bizarrely high price of Fine Cloth in Eubric. I watched the market, and sure enough, it crashed (a result of the unsustainably high price, a fall in demand by the more economically minded during these dark times, and the invasion of Luosh, primarily) which prompted me, as a representative of the Hinckwell company, to seek a mutually profitable arrangement with the cloth merchants of Brendenton. I offered Lord Brenden II and the Church a monthly payment in exchange for exclusive rights to the sale of Brendenton’s cloth (The finest in the land if you weren't in the know, and the largest exporter to the Free Isles and the Dastan Empire.) The Nobleman, who was in rough shape himself, agreed to my offer with little deliberation, and the church followed in suite (they have the power of the people, and therefore can legitimize the Lord’s decisions if they so desire. Believe me, if I didn't have to involve them in this, I wouldn't.) With the rights to the sale of cloth, the Hinckwell Company can purchase cloth from the local artisans at a lower, but consistent price and sell it to Uland and Dastan through the Hinckwell Company for any price within reason—the Shadeaux will have to sell inferior cloth or less-well-known cloth. The new law shall be set into place tomorrow, and eased into slowly, but it’s crucial that the cat stays mostly in the bag until then, or we could face civil-unrest here, or a defensive maneuver by the Shadeaux—neither of which I want to deal with. It should be a win-win scenario, but I've noticed some worrying behavior in the local cloth merchants. I don’t think they know exactly what’s happening yet, but I fear there may be someone spreading rumors that could lead to quite a mess. I’m not sure what game this rumor-spreader is playing, but he must be found at once! I need to attend a meeting of the local merchant guilds here, soon, and with the law passing tomorrow, the rumor-spreader is going to make his move very soon. I suggest you start tracking him down by asking the Cloth Merchants you can find on Market Street if they've heard any rumors, but it’s important you don’t mention “Hinckwell” if at all avoidable. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but had you arrived earlier, then perhaps all of this could be mostly avoided, but alas, I hear the weather stunted your speed. Do you have any additional questions before you begin this mission?"

But I can paraphrase it if you'd like... and provide a succinct summary if it's still confusing you, which it may be. I realize the plot is somewhat convoluted due to the fact that for the longest time the party had no idea who they were looking for.

The Mission is to

A. Figure out who's spreading the news of the Hinckwell's attempted Monopoly to the Merchants (which he wanted to avoid because Dill didn't want to give the Shadeaux time to launch a counter maneuver, and if it was released to the people without pro-Hinckwell propaganda and positive rumours, as it was, it could cause the people to riot, which it did.)

and B. Hinder his plan (whatever it may be) or stop him entirely.

What's happened so far is:

The Party sailed to Brendenton with Bart, the Hinckwell employee. As soon as the Party got to Brendenton (once called Sailor's Haven), they encountered the 'beggar' Crawfee (who really worked for Marty as an information gatherer/spreader). He told them a negatively butchered version of the true rumour and the scrammed. The Party then arrived in the Inn where Dill Hinckwell, their employer, was waiting for the Guild-Heads Meeting to commence. He told the Party to find out who was spreading the rumours, why and to try and stop him from succeeding in his obviously anti-Hinckwell (or anti-Lord Brenden) plot. The Party traced the rumours back to the Mercutio-worshiping Information broker, Marty the Face, who tricked them into telling him how far the rumour had spread (to ensure that the plan was working), and then proceeded to attack the party, that he knew worked for Dill because Crawfee told him. When defeated, he lied to the party to mislead them, stating that the Po Brothers worked for the Mafia. (Had the Party asked almost anyone else, such as the Banker (but not Dice, Yoro, or Abe/Fleur) then they would have been told that they worked for the Church. The Banker actually almost told the Party about the Po-Brothers.) On the way to the lair, the Party bumped into Abe, Dice, and Yoro, who were on their way to reveal their hands in the conspiracy to Marty and group-up (Marty had only been in contact with the Po-Brothers). When the Party got to the Mob hideout, they were directed to the Church and given the side-quest of bringing back Ed and Al's heads, after claiming to work for the departed Marty. The Party then went to the Church where they found the Po-Brothers and their employer, the corrupt cleric Caine, who they killed. The Po Brothers then told them of the Rendezvous point, but by then Abe/Fleur had already determined that the Po Brothers were exposed and went ahead with the plan with neither Marty nor Caine's money. The Party rushed to the rendezvous point, but found that Abe had already absconded, leaving behind her disillusioned former fiance, Dice, and his companion Yoro, who explained Fleur's plot to the Party, which was to cause panic in the Cloth Market, buy cloth at low low prices, and sell it to the Shadeaux at a high price, giving the Shadeaux a means to remain competitive in the Cloth market while they attempted to locate another source of Cloth, making the Hinckwell's costly monopoly much less important. All the while, the third conspirator, the Clothes-Guild-Head bided his time in the Guild-Heads meeting until about 3:30, at which point he revealed the Hinckwell plot to the Guild-Heads, causing the panic that Fleur needed. The Party is now attempting to catch Fleur before she leaves at 5:00, but they're finding it difficult due to the rioting.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

Edited April 9, 2013 by Dannylonglegs

[JimBee]

If I'm blinded, can I still assassinate?

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Endgame, I think it's about time to start operation, Funnel Some Revenge... watch out.

[Dannylonglegs]

Endgame, I think it's about time to start operation, Funnel Some Revenge... watch out.

Excellent.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Scubacarrot]

If I'm blinded, can I still assassinate?

No.

[Endgame]

Endgame, I think it's about time to start operation, Funnel Some Revenge... watch out.

Do your worst... gonna be a bit hard with a Puppetstring attached to that brain of yours.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Gonna be a bit easy when we almost copied your battles.

[JimBee]

Phew. That was a long battle for Quest 59. I wish there were some more offensive classed-heroes on my quest, but you get what you're given. Just makes things a bit difficult to balance is all. I'll try to make the next battle a little more manageable (but not necessarily easier ).

Also, I really love Pretzel's character. "Very generous donation, your path to heaven has been secured" And very generous of Mizuki to give out her winnings. It's a great example of a way that Assassins can play a supporting role in addition to an offensive one (or even healing if they spent their gold on potions and essences).

On another note, can any expert gamer point me somewhere or tell me about types of classes? I think the main categories are Offensive, Healing, and Support. Do I have that right?

No.

Time to run to the hills then.

[Dannylonglegs]

There we go. I've decided to make all the future optional combats allot simpler... Stay in or smoke-bomb out. None of them are integral to the plot, but they may be worth it for the rewards/moral value.

Also, is the plot that hard to get? Did I go overboard on the investigation aspect?

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[Cutcobra]

Very serious. Reminds me of a Master Wayne I came across while I was uh...familiarizing myself with his manor. Had a dreadful obsession with bats or was it cats?

Now all we need is for someone to create Bruce Shadeaux! .

[Flipz]

On another note, can any expert gamer point me somewhere or tell me about types of classes? I think the main categories are Offensive, Healing, and Support. Do I have that right?

There are a few different types of classes in Heroica, and in RPGs in general--while Offensive, Healing, and Support are decent broad categories, there are more specific subdivisions (and areas where those lines are blurred).

First, within Offensive, are the "Damage Per Round" characters. Hunters, Raiders, Mystic Knights, Battle Mages, Shamans, and Evokers are the major DPS players--hunters have 4 damaging rolls, Extra Critical hits, AND 3x damage against Favored enemies, Raiders and Mystic Knights get AoE and both have built-in ways to improve weaponry (gold-earning and Enchant, respectively), Battle Mages and Shamans are both heavy-hitters with Extra Critical Hits, and Evokers have 3.5 damaging rolls AND, when a spirit is summoned, deal GUARANTEED damage EVERY Round. Not too shabby. Among basic classes, this will be Barbarians and Rogues.

Next we have the DPR variant, Specialty DPR. To make a long story short, these are Mages and their Expert Classes; strong IF they have the relevant gems, but relatively weak otherwise. Black Knights also live here thanks to their SHIELD being elemental, as do Regulators and Necromancers.

Also technically in the Offensive category are tanks. Knights, Knight-classes, Dragoons, Skirmishers, and certain Witches, Shamans, Druids, and Regulators (depending on build) live here, as does Nagurre. These fellows soak up hits. If they own a shield and don't own Counterstrike gloves, they are either 1.) REALLY low-level, 2.) REALLY poor (as in, consider throwing the poor Knight a bone by dropping them as loot), or 3.) REALLY REALLY crazy. Like, A LOT. The non-shield owning classes listed are second options, in case no shield-owner/Nagurre is available and/or if they've optimized their build for SP. Regulators are listed as "sometimes" because their usable equipment is, naturally, going to be rather varied.

Healing is healing is healing; Clerics are clerics (Chi Monk should also be counted as a Cleric in this regard; a heavy-hitting one, but a cleric nonetheless). The only thing to remember is, IF you have a Mystic Knight with a Healing Staff, they count as a Healer; MKs are the only AoE class capable of using a Healing Staff that isn't already capable of Ether-based healing. Whoever ends up with Mediq after Q50 also falls into this capacity.

Next we have Consumable Healers; these are uncommon, but you may find Assassins or other Rogues (like yourself, and De'kra) who will stock up on potions and remedies and even tonics to use on the rest of the party. When balancing around these characters, you really have to know the players/characters themselves, to know whether they'll stick to their class- and gear- based category, act as a healer, or do some hybrid of the two. In other words, don't treat them as healers unless you KNOW they'll be healing other characters regularly.

Lastly, we have Support. In Heroica, this means Black Knights (Hide + Phoenix Essences make them excellent trump cards), Assassins (Assassination, obviously), Druids (Nurture), Witches (Special Mirror, Mass Illusion, and poisoning), and Sorcerers (Stun from Magnetic Mojo, and Confusion). In addition, anyone who owns scrolls (particularly multiple ones) will be a Support character. Support is basically a catch-all for characters with abilities that are radically different from those of ordinary classes, and/or those that can inflict status effects. Among Expert Classes, Minstrels, Alchemists, and Necromancers are among the Support group.

Hope this helps!

[Waterbrick Down]

Now all we need is for someone to create Bruce Shadeaux! .

Have you been looking at my inital designs of Quest 65 that included a bat-themed vigilante?

[Kintobor]

~ There's some spine-chilling stuff going on at the Cemetery. Can't the dead just rest in peace?

Hmm, you don't say?

[Cutcobra]

Have you been looking at my inital designs of Quest 65 that included a bat-themed vigilante?

Nay. How about getting Selina The Cat Burglar? (Yes, I do know there's Violetta)

[JimBee]

Hope this helps!

It does, thank you! However, I would consider Assassins more offensive (and can also play healer and support), because they can OHKO and upgrade weapons with gold like Raiders. Druids are more healers than support, no? And Wardens, a combination of the supportive Knight and offensive Ranger. But are Knights offensive as you say? To me, soaking up hits seems more like a support class, and Knights (the BC) have only a 1/3 chance of hitting something.

[Dannylonglegs]

It does, thank you! However, I would consider Assassins more offensive (and can also play healer and support), because they can OHKO and upgrade weapons with gold like Raiders. Druids are more healers than support, no? And Wardens, a combination of the supportive Knight and offensive Ranger. But are Knights offensive as you say? To me, soaking up hits seems more like a support class, and Knights (the BC) have only a 1/3 chance of hitting something.

I am definitely both Support and a Healer, but I agree that the out-of-the-box Druid is not only a Healer, but the best Healer, bringing back the dead and curing all ailments of everyone in the party on a Shield, and capable of avoiding hits to continue his/her healing service by remaining in the back and possessing a 1/2 chance to avoid a Special. I also agree with your assessment of knights.

~Insectoid Aristocrat

[legobodgers]

Did anyone ever find out who killed Isabeau Carpenter from quest 10? I have read through the other quests in that story arch but didn't see anything.

[Flipz]

It does, thank you! However, I would consider Assassins more offensive (and can also play healer and support), because they can OHKO and upgrade weapons with gold like Raiders. Druids are more healers than support, no? And Wardens, a combination of the supportive Knight and offensive Ranger. But are Knights offensive as you say? To me, soaking up hits seems more like a support class, and Knights (the BC) have only a 1/3 chance of hitting something.

Tanks are hard to figure out placement-wise, I put them in Offensive because at times they can be the only ones who can safely attack certain enemies in a group. Besides, to me "Support" is for abilities that are further out from the base actions available to most players. Keep in mind, the subdivisions are a lot more important than the main categories.

Druids are both healers AND support; some classes fit into multiple categories (see Black Knight, which is Special DPR, Tank, AND Support). (Druids are included in the blanket "clerics" statement.)

Trust me, having just been in a Quest with two Assassins where the vast majority of enemies are immune to Assassination, I can definitively say that Assassins are NOT a strong Offensive class. Their basic setup makes WP far less useful to them compared to most classes, and they're VERY frail, even moreso than some Mage classes, especially if they came from Rogue instead of Ranger. While Assassination makes them very useful in (potentially) eliminating enemies quickly, they're firmly in Support territory; they don't dish out big hits, they have a chance to remove the enemy entirely. They're good candidates for Consumable Healers, though.

Wardens are pure tank, but thinking about it, Aura (which changes the target of enemy attacks) also puts them squarely in Support territory.

[The Legonater]

I have to agree with Assassins being a support class. In quests like 53, Alexis and I were mainly useful in clearing out the mooks while everyone else dealt with the heavy hitters.