Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Serious QM Note here: If I had to counter some classes, I'd actually (most of the time) allow them to receive the full benefits of an action: but also put a consequence on the line as well. Example: Oh, Minstrel, you sung Quick March? Good for you... too bad some of the enemies on the other side of the field are affected by your songs as well. Enjoy the free hits! It really puts a non-numeric and/or risk vs reward spin on strategy. Edited April 21, 2013 by Endgame Quote
Scubacarrot Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Serious QM Note here: If I had to counter some classes, I'd actually (most of the time) allow them to receive the full benefits of an action: but also put a consequence on the line as well. Example: Oh, Minstrel, you sung Quick March? Good for you... too bad some of the enemies on the other side of the field are affected by your songs as well. Enjoy the free hits! It really puts a non-numeric and/or risk vs reward spin on strategy. I'd actually argue that that is unfair. I would say work against in them in the context in the game. For example, if you want to counter a Hunter, make many different enemies, if you want to counter a Docken, SP piercing enemies, a minstrel could easily be countered with enemies that do party wide ether drains. Quote
Dannylonglegs Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I'd actually argue that that is unfair. I would say work against in them in the context in the game. For example, if you want to counter a Hunter, make many different enemies, if you want to counter a Docken, SP piercing enemies, a minstrel could easily be countered with enemies that do party wide ether drains. I hate those kinds of enemies. Good Riddance Tail. ~Insectoid Aristocrat Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) How would that be unfair? Barring the fact that soundwaves travel it really makes you think about whether or not/when/where the action is appropriate. Is hastening the entire party worth a few hits? Is encouraging the entire party worth buffing that pair of mooks? Etcetera. Whose Tail, Eidolon's or Perfect Regret's? Edited April 21, 2013 by Endgame Quote
Scubacarrot Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 How would that be unfair? Barring the fact that soundwaves travel it really makes you think about whether or not/when/where the action is appropriate. Is hastening the entire party worth a few hits? Is encouraging the entire party worth buffing that pair of mooks? Etcetera. I get it, but it's like saying an Assassin's Shield hits allies as well. If a mage conjures up a firestorm, logically, it'd probably hit their allies too. Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) That, I agree, wouldn't be fair. I'd counter on class by class basis, not just turn every shield around. Edited April 21, 2013 by Endgame Quote
The Legonater Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 I get it, but it's like saying an Assassin's Shield hits allies as well. If a mage conjures up a firestorm, logically, it'd probably hit their allies too. So we'd have an army of Atramors and Haldors running around? The horror! Quote
Brickdoctor Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Also, super pleased I got to turn someone into a Newt. Probably more pleased than I should be. It's normal for us evil QMs. I'd actually argue that that is unfair. I would say work against in them in the context in the game. For example, if you want to counter a Hunter, make many different enemies, if you want to counter a Docken, SP piercing enemies, a minstrel could easily be countered with enemies that do party wide ether drains. I agree. Make heroes work around enemies that can counter some of their strengths (but not all of them; that'd be unfair, too), but don't punish them for getting a good roll result, something which they don't have control over and which is supposed to be a rewarding roll. (And I don't mean that good rolls shouldn't be able to do something bad, like Auras or Blood Rituals against Undead, but don't change the mechanics of the roll.)You can also the players should have some choice in how powerful their enemies are. Punish them for making a bad decision outside of battle, but don't punish them for getting what is supposed to be a good roll by changing the mechanics of that roll to make it affect combatants its not supposed to. Quote
Flipz Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Also, super pleased I got to turn someone into a Newt. Probably more pleased than I should be. ~Insectoid Aristocrat I think most QMs have a pleased reaction to Heroes rolling Specials they really like. I laughed evilly when I got to hit Johon with the Tail. Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 (edited) Argh, I forgot that the Minstrel even had a shield roll that allowed them to sing. (Probably because Aquos has yet to throw a single punch!) Disregard that. Also, I should've taken a picture when End of The World was rolled. Too bad it did squat. Edited April 21, 2013 by Endgame Quote
Scubacarrot Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Actually the Minstrel can choose to sing, so not a roll, but I'd say you probably shouldn't mess with a player's stats and mechanics too much. So we'd have an army of Atramors and Haldors running around? How does Atramor hurt his allies? Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Did you miss the part where he massacred almost all of 53? Quote
The Legonater Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Also, super pleased I got to turn someone into a Newt. Probably more pleased than I should be. It's alright, this sort of thing seems to happen to Karie all the time... Quote
Brickdoctor Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Actually the Minstrel can choose to sing, so not a roll, but I'd say you probably shouldn't mess with a player's stats and mechanics too much. It can be a choice or a roll. Their Shield (Sound of Music) has them sing a random song at no Ether cost. Quote
Scubacarrot Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Did you miss the part where he massacred almost all of 53? Was he using one of those bombs? If so, that doesn't count. I don't read through battles, most of the time, and I must admit to not following/reading 53 that closely. Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 It can be a choice or a roll. Their Shield (Sound of Music) has them sing a random song at no Ether cost. Correct, I forgot they had that. They could quite easily ruin their party if they sing the wrong song at the wrong time. (Encouraged enemy rolls an AoE special and kills them all). Quote
Brickdoctor Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Was he using one of those bombs? If so, that doesn't count. I don't read through battles, most of the time, and I must admit to not following/reading 53 that closely. I didn't follow it that closely, either, but I think he Special Mirrored one of the Chaotic Specials that had enemies deal Damage to enemies. Quote
Scubacarrot Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 It can be a choice or a roll. Their Shield (Sound of Music) has them sing a random song at no Ether cost. Yeah, but the chance of it happening to be the one song that creates an inconvenience makes that not that big of an issue, but still, I wouldn't mess with a class' mechanics if it were me, as I said. I didn't follow it that closely, either, but I think he Special Mirrored one of the Chaotic Specials that had enemies deal Damage to enemies. I see, that's actually a good counter for Witches! Quote
Flipz Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Was he using one of those bombs? If so, that doesn't count. I don't read through battles, most of the time, and I must admit to not following/reading 53 that closely. He used Special Mirror, and the enemy's Special did damage to the enemy party...which meant he did damage to OUR entire enemy party, resulting in two of the NPC deaths and a huge chunk of the party not getting experience for the last part of the battle. Not to mention leaving Triad to die... I see, that's actually a good counter for Witches! Step 1 of battle: kill Atramor. Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 He used Special Mirror, and the enemy's Special did damage to the enemy party...which meant he did damage to OUR entire enemy party, resulting in two of the NPC deaths and a huge chunk of the party not getting experience for the last part of the battle. Not to mention leaving Triad to die... Would Sealing extend to a special mirror? Quote
Scubacarrot Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Step 1 of battle: kill Atramor. Well, you'd probably end up getting hexed and killing your own party if you tried that. Now I see how Atramor is so destructive. Quote
CMP Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 Now I see how Atramor is so destructive. I try to regulate Atramor's homicidal tendencies towards the enemies. Most of the time. Quote
Endgame Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 If that didn't solidify Perfect regret's status as "Eldritch Abomination", I don't know what will. Quote
CMP Posted April 21, 2013 Posted April 21, 2013 If that didn't solidify Perfect regret's status as "Eldritch Abomination", I don't know what will. It'll make him look like an idiot the next time Alexandre rolls a Shield and his angel comes back, but for now, yeah. Quote
Sandy Posted April 21, 2013 Author Posted April 21, 2013 Phew! That was some heavy-duty-update to the first post of the Heroica Hall topic I just did! Everything should be in order for the time being. Thank you CMP for hosting the Fields, now it's JimButcher's turn to take the wheel for the next party. You two are a tremendous help to me, I couldn't have kept hosting the Fields if you hadn't come to my aid. Quote
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