Gotham City Mafia: Conclusion

[Jedi master Brick]

Thanks for letting me play this amazing game. Well done town, and Def. This has been great for me learning how to play better,which I would use in my next game

[Tamamono]

Shall we start auditioning now?

Sounds good to me!

Nah.

Next mafia in which we get to audition needs to be Pirates of the Caribbean Mafia.

Which character do you want to be?

Barbossa

Why?

Because Barbossa's name starts with a 'B', and because Barbossa loves apples. Now, if Barbossa has a rotten apple and a soft, bruised apple...

We have considered a sequel, but thought that there wouldn't be enough major villains left to use, so there wouldn't be much call for it. That's an interesting thought though and we might discuss it further.

Yeah, although Penguin has plenty more of his beautiful customs (Crazy Quilt, Deathstroke, Clock King, etc.), most of the well-known villains are 'dead'.

[ADHO15]

Count all of the Penguin's custom figures and tell me you don't have enough villains. I can kind of see what you mean, though. Perhaps the opposite end of the spectrum? (Good guys?)

Yeah, although Penguin has plenty more of his beautiful customs (Crazy Quilt, Deathstroke, Clock King, etc.), most of the well-known villains are 'dead'.

The emphasis was on major there. I don't think a game full of the most obscure villains in the Batman universe would prove to be very popular, and I don't know of enough heroes to fill a mafia game, unless other members of the Justice League are included.

I suppose the survivors of this game could be brought back if needs be. It all depends on what people want to see, I suppose.

Whatever we decide, The Penguin and I have agreed to have a rest before thinking of hosting again.

[K-Nut]

I suppose the survivors of this game could be brought back if needs be. It all depends on what people want to see, I suppose.

Whatever we decide, The Penguin and I have agreed to have a rest before thinking of hosting again.

I told you! Two-Face is just in a coma! He could be brought back! Where's the blood?

[The Penguin]

I guess the death of some villains means no sequel eh? But with the new DC license, maybe JLA mafia?

I still have around 70+ more characters ready! And that's only in Bat-universe!

We have considered a sequel, but thought that there wouldn't be enough major villains left to use, so there wouldn't be much call for it.

Um, we did?!

You know, ADHO, my love for minor Bat-villains! And we'll be free of accusations because noone will know them!

Who wouldn't want to play as the Mad Stampman?!

Good day, ladies and gentlemen! )

P.S.

And I'm being serious. There is a villain with such a name!

[K-Nut]

You know, ADHO, my love for minor Bat-villains! And we'll be free of accusations because noone will know them!

Who wouldn't want to play as the Mad Stampman?!

I claim him!

[Tamamono]

The emphasis was on major there. I don't think a game full of the most obscure villains in the Batman universe would prove to be very popular, and I don't know of enough heroes to fill a mafia game, unless other members of the Justice League are included.

I suppose the survivors of this game could be brought back if needs be. It all depends on what people want to see, I suppose.

Whatever we decide, The Penguin and I have agreed to have a rest before thinking of hosting again.

In any case, you guys hosted a great game, and you deserve a break.

Who wouldn't want to play as the Mad Stampman?!

I'd love to play as Mad Stampman! Killer Moth and Film Freak would be great too!

I claim him!

[K-Nut]

I'd love to play as Mad Stampman! Killer Moth and Film Freak would be great too!

What about Prometheous? Or Our dear Owlman?

[Professor Flitwick]

I'd love to play as Mad Stampman! Killer Moth and Film Freak would be great too!

What about Prometheous? Or Our dear Owlman?

The Second Ventriloquist, the other three Clayfaces, Cluemaster Firefly, Clock King, Deacon Blackfire (perfect for Nightshroud! ), Ratman, Tweedledee and Tweedledum - there is probably room for two sequels, and thats just with Batman characters!

[Nightshroud99]

Deacon Blackfire (perfect for Nightshroud! )

An obscure character I've never heard of who turns out to be a transient leader of the sewers. That sounds nifty.

I'm all for a sequel, perhaps a mix of heroes and villains. Except for Batman of course.

[Oky]

A sequel centered around the Justice League (with players taking the roles of lesser known DC heroes, not the founding members) or one about the Avengers would be great!

Then again, such a sequel would be just as plagued with advantages for comic fans, maybe even more so than in this game.

[Tamamono]

Then again, such a sequel would be just as plagued with advantages for comic fans, maybe even more so than in this game.

You know, a pretty good solution for that would be to add a link to the wiki in the confirmation and discussion thread.

[def]

My thoughts on a licensed character game... I think it's better to work in the realm of a licensed universe than to use characters themselves. There were too many places where characters actual attributes overlapped to their game attributes, enough so that this was only half mafia. I think if you had a story set in Gotham, with all new characters, it could make a great environment.

And it's not to say this wasn't fun; it was. But, if you have your heart set on using known characters, you might just want to run with it and push it further, but not call it a mafia game. The game I ran in the summer borrowed elements of a mafia game, but was going well outside the territory of one, so I labeled it a "Mafiystery Game" or whatever I called it. It didn't stop some people from being frustrated after the game, but I let them know up front it wasn't a mafia game

If you had a game where there were connections between the villains abilities and the night actions, that could certainly become part of it, and could be quite fun for people

I was a comic nerd back in the day, so certainly I feel comfortable with the setting.

[Masked Builder]

You guys used a system similar game type to the way I'm working on my Mafia game. I still need to finish the sets though.

I actually think Masked's death was mainly my fault. Sorry Masked!

It's fine. You live and you die. At least this time I tried to help the town.

[Capt. Redblade]

If there is going to be a sequel, let us not forget that in the world of comic books, character deaths are very rarely permanent.

[def]

Sorry to revive a topic that had gone suddenly dormant without sufficient feedback from the hosts, in my opinion....(and a few players never bothered to check in after the game?! Where's the etiquette in that?)

In regards to all the business between me the scum here, a similar situation has arisen this week in another off-site mafia game I'm playing. It's a daily mafia game, where 24 hours equals one game day + night, so, I, with my job and part time job to pay for my move this year, and presents for def jr, have been participating at, shall we say, K-nut levels (no offense intended at all whatsover K-nut, I even capitalized your name as you like it ). So, I have been somewhat harassed, accused of "lying out my megablocks" among other things. Just a somewhat solid accusation that I'm full of shit. It's certainly lighter than my accusation that scum in Gotham are a bunch of whiners needing rattles and a change of diapers. Anyway, someone else has quit that game out of frustration at accusations (not mine, natch ) stemming from game-based "enthusiasm". I have urged a good night's sleep and further consideration tomorrow, so we'll see.

But, to those who think a game gets out of hand... It's a worthy topic. I think when it gets personal, it's out of hand (ie. my mafia school insult, which was very much on the fence, but to me, was more about mocking scum behavior than any individual. I don't actually have a formed opinion on the scum of this game, I hardly know them). But I think generic insults to be entirely fair.

Really, this is an interpersonal game, so I think you should go into it with some "Internet-level" thick skin. As in, you shouldn't take personally what some person you don't know and will never meet writes about you, whether correct or not. What say you? What level of abuse is fair when tracking scum?

[K-Nut]

...shall we say, K-nut levels (no offense intended at all whatsover K-nut, I even capitalized your name as you like it )

Yay! My name's spelled right! No offense taken.

[XimenaPaulina]

Really, this is an interpersonal game, so I think you should go into it with some "Internet-level" thick skin.

I think the "Internet-level thick skin" you're referring to comes with maturity and game experience. Just look at the behavior of all the scum when you pressured them in this particular game: Brickdoctor, Pie, and Flit were all relatively more composed and calmer than their "newer" teammates Nightshroud, Scorpiox, and Rumble Strike. This is a pretty good lesson for future scummies - to try your damned best not crack under pressure when you're put in the hotseat, otherwise it would be a massive scumtell. Just look the lone townie we lynched, Bane, even if he put up the infamous "wet toilet-paper strong" defense (sorry can't help it ) at least he didn't freak out like the others. And Doc is the prime example picture-prefect grace under pressure even if ultimately he didn't escape the lynch.

As in, you shouldn't take personally what some person you don't know and will never meet writes about you, whether correct or not. What say you? What level of abuse is fair when tracking scum?

People should NEVER EVER take any part of the game personally - it's just an online game afterall. I actually didn't see anything wrong with your words and tactics def, they were perfectly fine within the confines of the game. Yes it did get under the skin of the scum but it's their problem if they're onion-skin sensitive. Additionally, this facet of the game provides additional spice and flavor to liven the game thread and hopefully put more fun into it.

[Darth Nihilus]

I think the "Internet-level thick skin" you're referring to comes with maturity and game experience. Just look at the behavior of all the scum when you pressured them in this particular game: Brickdoctor, Pie, and Flit were all relatively more composed and calmer than their "newer" teammates Nightshroud, Scorpiox, and Rumble Strike. This is a pretty good lesson for future scummies - to try your damned best not crack under pressure when you're put in the hotseat, otherwise it would be a massive scumtell. Just look the lone townie we lynched, Bane, even if he put up the infamous "wet toilet-paper strong" defense (sorry can't help it ) at least he didn't freak out like the others. And Doc is the prime example picture-prefect grace under pressure even if ultimately he didn't escape the lynch.

Sorry to post here when I didn't play the game, but I can put an example to support this point. I broke under the pressure in my first game, and look where that got me. All my teammates were killed because I got angry at them for accusing me. Not that I blame them, I wasn't going to make it anyway, I just hadn't realized that yet.

[Hinckley]

Really, this is an interpersonal game, so I think you should go into it with some "Internet-level" thick skin.

People should also consider "Internet-level" tact. Having a thick skin is advisable, but so is being careful what you say to people. It does work both ways.

[fhomess]

I wasn’t a part of this game, but followed it pretty closely. I’ve only been involved in the one online mafia game (def’s Witchbreed), so I’m not too experienced in this. At first I was annoyed by the “scum or dumb” thing, but then realized that it was to mess with the scum, and it was clearly working. That said, there were some behaviors in this game that I thought were low class. I'm a bit with Hinckly in that I think you ought to treat people on the internet the same way you would in person. Just because you're interacting via computer and through text on a screen, doesn't mean there aren't real people on the other end.

1. Mafia school comments – it’s been debated a bit already, but the biggest problem I have with it is that it’s an insult that can’t be justified in the context of the game world.

2. Watching people’s forum behavior – I realize that not posting right after reading or being involved elsewhere on the forums can be a scum tactic in order to wait for more information to come up, but this is again something that is outside of the game world. It’s really not any different for someone to go off an read something in the historic themes forum as it is for them to go off and read on a sports, news, or video site elsewhere on the internet. People should not have to abandon the other things they like doing in order to not look like scum in a mafia game, and that's not the same as not being committed to the game. Def may have put his whole life on hold for this game, but it doesn't mean everyone else needs to, as long as they're still participating.

3. I was also disappointed at the amount of metagaming that happened on the basis of characters, but I think there was a fair amount of confirmation bias in there as well.

All that said, I really enjoyed following along. The game was played very well by some of the key players, and I was impressed the Killer Croc got himself off the hook so well. The town did a great job of sorting through all the possible confusing scenarios with everyone having a role and redirections possible in multiple ways.

[Brickdoctor]

1. Mafia school comments – it’s been debated a bit already, but the biggest problem I have with it is that it’s an insult that can’t be justified in the context of the game world.

2. Watching people’s forum behavior – I realize that not posting right after reading or being involved elsewhere on the forums can be a scum tactic in order to wait for more information to come up, but this is again something that is outside of the game world. It’s really not any different for someone to go off an read something in the historic themes forum as it is for them to go off and read on a sports, news, or video site elsewhere on the internet. People should not have to abandon the other things they like doing in order to not look like scum in a mafia game, and that's not the same as not being committed to the game. Def may have put his whole life on hold for this game, but it doesn't mean everyone else needs to, as long as they're still participating.

3. I was also disappointed at the amount of metagaming that happened on the basis of characters, but I think there was a fair amount of confirmation bias in there as well.

The metagaming is unavoidable. Eventually, someone's going to use it against you.

All that said, I really enjoyed following along. The game was played very well by some of the key players, and I was impressed the Killer Croc got himself off the hook so well. The town did a great job of sorting through all the possible confusing scenarios with everyone having a role and redirections possible in multiple ways.

I don't think JediAnakin was ever really on the hook. He just annoyed some people. (and I kept bringing that up because it was distracting and people knew that I'd done the same thing in The Coming Darkness against Jedi master Brick) He did get better as the game went along, though, so that was a good thing.

[def]

People should also consider "Internet-level" tact. Having a thick skin is advisable, but so is being careful what you say to people. It does work both ways.

But what if annoying people is part of your strategy Only the scum were teased, for the purpose of breaking them down.... I think it's at least as fair as stalking their Internet activity, which I never did.

Def may have put his whole life on hold for this game, but it doesn't mean everyone else needs to, as long as they're still participating.

I won't take that as a compliment I'd like to think there is a happy medium between casually checking in every few days, and obsessively following the game. I'll admit, on Sundays, when at home for the day and it was snowy outside, I checked in too much, but other than that, I probably put in an hour a day. Which I think is healthy for a mafia game. But it's up for debate.

All that said, I really enjoyed following along. The game was played very well by some of the key players, and I was impressed the Killer Croc got himself off the hook so well. The town did a great job of sorting through all the possible confusing scenarios with everyone having a role and redirections possible in multiple ways.

Croc was never on the hook, since he was killing for town. He killed the Ventriloquist night three at my request, and there was never any question of his town affiliation, to me.

I addressed this around day five or so. A number of townies were throwing out accusations at "quiet" players, but those players were pretty much cleared, so it was simply causing stress in thread. Another example of the importance of coordination.

[Hinckley]

But what if annoying people is part of your strategy Only the scum were teased, for the purpose of breaking them down.... I think it's at least as fair as stalking their Internet activity, which I never did.

I don't think that's an equal comparison by any stretch of the imagination. People "stalk" in this game for many reasons with varying results. But as the discussion was about activity that hurts people's feelings, I don't see how activity stalking is relevant.

Besides, my response was in response to your quote, not necessarily solely your behavior, so no reason to think that was meant just for you.

[def]

I don't think that's an equal comparison by any stretch of the imagination. People "stalk" in this game for many reasons with varying results. But as the discussion was about activity that hurts people's feelings, I don't see how activity stalking is relevant.

Besides, my response was in response to your quote, not necessarily solely your behavior, so no reason to think that was meant just for you.

I think it's comparable in terms of the topic of "questionable behavior in mafia games." The scum in this game were quite frustrated about being called out for playing Heroica but not the mafia. But it happened to town too. K-nut got called out for it. I said something to him, but I was taking Kiel's reports for it.

I don't consider it metagaming to stalk someone's activity (off topic, I find all metagaming fair), but I find it icky, and it makes me a lot more uncomfortable than mafia-based insults.

The more important point was that teasing was part of the strategy though, and it actually helped track down the scum in this game. Not Brickdoctor, but the others, for sure.