Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[Scubacarrot]

Scubacarrot - Part of me agrees, but I don't see any requirement that could really make sense. I mean, its just really an upgraded basic class. Nothing else special besides that.

What about this, You have be part of a party that kills one of the bosses in the unlimited quest? I actually really like that idea, it´s a solid challenge. An upgraded Base class is something a lot of people will want, I think. So what do you do? You make it hard, or at least challenging to get. Lore-wise, you can make it make sense, of course. Scarcity in gaming is great. Not everyone should have access to all expert classes, and the upgraded base classes should be no different, I feel. Perhaps other people might have some other requirements that would make sense?

[Endgame]

From what I understand, though, I don't believe Threshold Monsters respawn (clarification on this?)

Perhaps they are either buyable with GP or there are boss monsters that have a chance to spawn in Hard areas? Killing them would net you the expert class they embody.

[Flare]

What about some sort of "key", that unlocks the class for you, for 10 GP or something like that?

From what I understand, though, I don't believe Threshold Monsters respawn (clarification on this?)

As far as I know they don't respawn. They allow access to new areas of the fields.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Flare

[Flipz]

I like the idea. Here's some things I would like, though:

- Give some barrier to entry, at least. I think the idea for the expert classes is very cool, because you actually need to do certain stuff in order to be able to get to be one. As for WHAT exactly? I don't know, not gold related, since some would have a distinct advantage. Perhaps you need to get to a certain point in the unlimited quest or something like that?

-Change the names. Archmage and High Cleric arefine, but the rest are pretty awful to me. The clear connection to the base class does not to be clear from the name, really, I'm sure we can remember, I would say Fighter, Reaver or Gladiator for Barbarian, Scout, Keeper or Archer for Ranger, Crusader, Champion or Warrior for Knight. Duelist, Shadow for Rogue. Not very important.

-Job trait suggestions: Knight: Diplomacy, Intimidation, Some sort of out of battle protect from traps thing. Barbarian: Restoration, Intimidation, BARBARIAN SMASH. Can smash through objects at the cost of 1 WP of a weapon, . Ranger: Animal Talk, Track Down, Keen Eye. Mage: Spellcasting, Something that allows them to exchange a certain number of health for ether, probably 10:1 or something, should be done so it can not be misused with the help of a cleric, so say they can only do it once between battles. Cleric: Healing, Spiritism, Out of battle Healing is free, free remedying?. Rogue: Flee, ´Badass Lockpicking`, Stealth? Quick Fingers? Something that allows them to throw two throwing weapons in one turn?

You don't think that getting to Level 30 is enough of a barrier?

Yes absolutely. All the other expert classes have some other requirement, being it needed to done a specific quest or posessing a special item. If there was not a barrier to getting access to these, it would be bad.

Agreed. Not sure about the "beat the Threshold Monster" idea, though...somehow that seems a little too limited, especially since some classes just aren't well-suited for Fields play.

Perhaps they are either buyable with GP or there are boss monsters that have a chance to spawn in Hard areas? Killing them would net you the expert class they embody.

What about some sort of "key", that unlocks the class for you, for 10 GP or something like that?

Buyable with GP would be one option, though I'd put the GP cost just a little below the Medal, somewhere in the 75-90 GP range. I like Endgame's idea of "randomly drops" in the Fields, though, it just feels...right, somehow. (Obviously, it'd have to be determined by dice roll; i.e. a 1% chance for Mediocre areas, a 10% chance for Difficult areas, and a 25% chance in Hard areas (and so on and so forth, since I believe Sandy said that the areas past the Threshold Monsters start at Very Hard).

[TheBoyWonder]

The field drop or GP I not agree with. Some parties are in the fields for ages, so it's unfair on others.

[Sandy]

I could go with these classes being Glory Point prizes. I just have to figure out if they are actually wanted/needed for this game, first.

The field drop or GP I not agree with. Some parties are in the fields for ages, so it's unfair on others.

But the Expert Classes aren't really about fairness, anyway. You can only acquire most of them by participating in specific quests, after all.

[Endgame]

I'm already using random drops, actually: the party has a 1 in 6 chance of encountering a rare,1-of-a-kind Progg in every non-boss battle. For example, the rare progg in The Wound fight would've been the Progg Chameleon.

I'd reccomend something that Flipz said, the chance of getting one of the rare Expert Class bosses to spawn going up as it gets tougher in the fields.

[Sandy]

(and so on and so forth, since I believe Sandy said that the areas past the Threshold Monsters start at Very Hard).

No, the areas past the Threshold Monsters are all classified as "hard". The monsters there go all the way up to Level 99.

[CorneliusMurdock]

The Knight expert has got to be pretty good to make me want to change from Paladin. It has to make up for losing the healing ability.

Job trait suggestions: Knight: Diplomacy, Intimidation, Some sort of out of battle protect from traps thing.

What would be the purpose of having both diplomacy and intimidation? I think a better skill would be a trait that allows the knight to get an extra bonus from SP either defensively or offensively.

I think limiting the expert class to those that started with the corresponding basic is limiting enough. You need to think about how much someone will want these. Enough to survive the waiting list that is the fields? I'd rather go on a quest with a plotline. If you really want to hand them out as a reward, do it like the others and incorporate them into a quest you're going to run.

[Flare]

I could go with these classes being Glory Point prizes. I just have to figure out if they are actually wanted/needed for this game, first.

But the Expert Classes aren't really about fairness, anyway. You can only acquire most of them by participating in specific quests, after all.

Sandy, what did you think of the Master Ranger class I wrote up?

[Pyrovisionary]

How about the barrier being a small challenge. i.e Upgrade your SP to something.

Edited January 6, 2013 by Skyrimguy

[Scubacarrot]

What would be the purpose of having both diplomacy and intimidation? I think a better skill would be a trait that allows the knight to get an extra bonus from SP either defensively or offensively.

Playstyle would be the reason for having them both. Not all knights are: "Hey Friend, Need some Help? Jolly good!" And I'd understand if Black Knights don't want to go back to being a softy. Traits are usually out of battle things. That's my reasoning for it anyways, and it were just suggestions, not all of them can be winners .

[CorneliusMurdock]

Playstyle would be the reason for having them both. Not all knights are: "Hey Friend, Need some Help? Jolly good!" And I'd understand if Black Knights don't want to go back to being a softy. Traits are usually out of battle things. That's my reasoning for it anyways, and it were just suggestions, not all of them can be winners .

I just think it'd be wasting two traits on something that is basically talking your way out of XP. Intimidation is just a flavor of diplomacy. If a former black knight wants to make his diplo-matating a little more forceful, that can be a RP decision.

The expert classes seemed to have traits that are a bit more useful in combat. Maybe the Expert Knight could have an innate SP that increases with level? Or they could add half or a third of their SP to their Power?

[Scubacarrot]

Another suggestion: They get a chance (say 1/6 or 2/6) to shield every party member with their SP on damage rolls?

Or something similair to what was suggested with the juggernaut: They can choose a party member which gets SP equal to theirs for the duration of the quest?

[JimBee]

Some people have expressed their disinterest in the expert job classes for roleplaying purposes, and someone (I think Flipz) suggested adding expert classes that specialize and improve upon the six basic job classes. Anyone could advance to the class corresponding to their original basic class upon hitting Level 30, making them work somewhat differently from other experts.

Well it was me, but yeah. Perhaps it wasn't the best thought-out idea I've had, since Expert versions of the BCs seem like they would be uninteresting/underpowered. AC's combine the talents of two BC's and then their own flavor (such as the ability to assassinate), and Master Classes either combine three BC's or, in the Mime's case, all six into one versatile class. I don't really see how a buffed-up version of a single BC could be somehow better or more unique than an AC or MC or even the BC at the same level. As Cornelius puts it, there's no reason to give up the cool powers of an AC, and if one wanted to retain any BC trait they lost when advancing to an AC, they could just switch back to the BC. Not that a Knight has anything better than a Paladin does, but a mug might be better than a ravage in some instances.

Some people will wait until they can choose a MC just to have some desirable traits not seen in any other class. For example, Doc is planning on skipping choosing an EC so that he can go from Warden to Mime, just for the ability to use bows and shields.

So, I think we could do without them, unless they were made unique from all the other levels of classes somehow. I know I would not trade Assassin for a buffed Rogue (I've even considered staying Assassin for the rest of the game, for Hybros). Some people might want that sort of thing, but I know I don't.

Yes absolutely. All the other expert classes have some other requirement, being it needed to done a specific quest or posessing a special item. If there was not a barrier to getting access to these, it would be bad.

I think the barrier would be limiting it to your original BC - you limited yourself when you chose it. So only Rogues could be the Expert Rogues, I think that's barrier enough.

[TheBoyWonder]

I'm planning on staying as a...... Black Knight, probably for the whole game.

[Flare]

I'm planning on staying as a...... Black Knight, probably for the whole game.

Not a Beast Warrior?

[Flipz]

Something that just popped into my mind: a class that Counterstrikes automatically as a permanent job trait would be interesting to see. (I'm not saying a class should be built around it, but it's an interesting potential Job Trait for a class that can use shields.)

[Pyrovisionary]

I'm planning on staying as a...... Black Knight, probably for the whole game.

Slight problem.. You're not a black knight yet!

[CMP]

I like these ideas. Is it at all possible that a few of the job traits could be taken from the master classes? If fits, seeing as how both as boosts to the basic classes. I also like the idea that they're Fields prizes.

High Cleric

• Additional Health: +8
  
• Additional Ether: +6
  
• Job Traits: Arc Healing: High clerics may heal their entire party outside of battle at the cost of 5 ether, Botanist: High clerics excell in all manners of healing. Restorative consumables they use restore twice as much health and/or ether, Purity: A high cleric's healing causes double damage to undead.
  
• Battle Style: Wondrous: High clerics can achieve astounding feats in healing.
  

1. SHIELD: Atonement: The high cleric restores their party to perfect health. In addition, any negative effects they have are transferred to the enemy party, cycling through both battle orders. The negative effects of one hero may be dealt to multiple opponents, if there are more enemies than there are heroes. Any positive effects the enemies have are transferred to the heroes. One hero may receive positive effects from multiple opponents, if there are more opponents than heroes.
   
2. CRITICAL HIT/ARC HEAL MORE - The high cleric deals damage to the opponent equal to twice their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, they may restore health equal to the same power to the entire party at the cost of 5 ether.
   
3. HIT/ARC HEAL - The high cleric deals damage to the opponent equal to their weapon power added to their level. Alternatively, they may restore health equal to the same power to the entire party at the cost of 5 ether.
   
4. INTROSPECTION/ARC HEAL LESS - The high cleric gains insight into their actions, regaining 5 ether. Alternatively, they may restore health equal to their level to the entire party at the cost of 5 ether.
   
5. DAMAGE/NO HEAL - The high cleric is struck by the opponent's attack. Alternatively, any attempt of healing fails.
   
6. SPECIAL GUARD/NO HEAL - The high cleric is struck by the opponent's special skill, with a 50/50 chance to be safe from any negative effects dealt by it. Alternatively, any attempt of healing fails.
   

Considered trying to work nurture in there, I figured a 'Cleansing Arc Heal' might be too too powerful.

[Flipz]

I love this class, awesome but still balanced.

[TheBoyWonder]

Not a Beast Warrior?

Beast Warrior is going to be hard for me to get to, Great reputation with Wolfgang is hard to get, you are the only one.

Slight problem.. You're not a black knight yet!

I know, but I'm only 4 battles off, and I have a hood that makes their special a lot better.

[Scubacarrot]

I think the barrier would be limiting it to your original BC - you limited yourself when you chose it. So only Rogues could be the Expert Rogues, I think that's barrier enough.

That is no barrier at all. You should not get free stuff for doing nothing, I hate that attitude. And I think know there would actually be interest in the classes.

[CMP]

Fabian sells armor that does that already, just as bodywear instead of headwear.

[TheBoyWonder]

Fabian sells armor that does that already, just as bodywear instead of headwear.

Yeah, but now, I can get the Heavy Armor which has 1 more SP.

Edited January 6, 2013 by TheBoyWonder