Mafia Mafia: Day Three - One-Armed-Pete and the Go-Go Brigade

[Hinckley]

So, with one unkillable gone, we'll have to protect the other Power Role, if we decide to reveal them, with the God Pill. Although, killing that pill off at some point would be fun. Oh wait, megablocks, it doesn't kill off, does it?

[mostlytechnic]

Why am I certain his inventor is scum?

Because I am the Town Inventor. Deal with it. I'm going to bed.

Unless the JOAT and vig are both scum, town will be getting protection pills. One should get the Fairy Tale pill, one the Mystery pill.

And even if his JOAT/vig are scum, once they claim in-thread as PR, the real PRs will reveal themselves. It's a great plan and pretty much waterproof. Scum is getting lynched no matter what happens.

The info that the inventor was handing out guns came through me (unless he's been talking to the inventor himself). I'm in contact with someone who's received a gun from the inventor, and told Hinckley this. I'm pretty sure it's not "his inventor".

If it's not you, then that makes this even more interesting. Let's see how this turns out.

Right - we've got TWO pills still that can protect, evne though one lifesaver is gone. That'll cover two important roles. And as proposed, anyone else taking them gets lynched. The only problem is today - scum could grab them and there's no way we could get 75% on them. However, the scum would also be revealing themselves by doing so - so they'd get lynched in the coming days, but we'd still likely lose power roles tonight since we couldn't protect them. We've got a JOAT who could protect the vig, but the JOAT would be vulnerable since we don't know who to block.

Very curious to hear more on the inventors... I agree that gun wouldn't be the best choice for hte town early in the game, but if our inventor is a noob they could make that mistake. I'm personally not convinced by Cult Leader that he's town. He could easily be the scum inventor and we don't have good proof yet either way.

Or CL could be lying about the Big Red Science pill, hoping our "reveal all" plan doesn't go through and the scum can get the unknown lifesaver for themselves... So my spreadsheet of pills has the BRS marked "lifesaver?" for now...

[jimmynick]

Throwing some thoughts out:

The Big Red Science Pill was a lifesaver. I have no choice but to reveal this now. I told Hinckley immediately before his great 'idea', but he seemed rather reluctant to read the PM. I took Potato's Magical Pill because I thought he was scum, and hoped to learn something from it - I didn't, it was a placebo. I have no control over who takes the pill after me.

If I suppose what the Talking Animal says has weight, why do you think Male Lover jumped to take the Big Red Science pill? If you were targeted by the scum killer on uppers, they might guess that your pill was a lifesaver (though if you're the inventor that would be irrelevant).

Talking Animal is right that we have no strong evidence either way about the inventors - it's you v. them.

When we hear all the pills from everyone, we can definitely take advantage of uppers. We have cop/doctor, JOAT and vig and we could easily give two of them uppers and one of them the lifesaver (and the god pill is always in play, as Female Lover says).

[mostlytechnic]

If I suppose what the Talking Animal says has weight, why do you think Male Lover jumped to take the Big Red Science pill? If you were targeted by the scum killer on uppers, they might guess that your pill was a lifesaver (though if you're the inventor that would be irrelevant).

When we hear all the pills from everyone, we can definitely take advantage of uppers. We have cop/doctor, JOAT and vig and we could easily give two of them uppers and one of them the lifesaver (and the god pill is always in play, as Female Lover says).

At the risk of circular argument here... we don't KNOW that Male knew what the BRS pill was. Or the BRS could be something else good (like uppers) that they wanted to keep from the town, so he took it. We don't KNOW that the BRS is a lifesaver, so the second lifesaver could still be one of the pills we haven't identified.

And we can't really "give" pills to certain people... we can assign them, but the scum could grab them if they're here first and we can't lynch them all in one day for stealing the good pills...

[Piratedave84]

I'm TOTALLY down with the idea of sharing our pills and ensuring that known town PR get them.

Both my pills were placebos, i will update my chart and post it here tomorrow with all the new info. RL has me swamped tonight an I applogize for my absence.

The cult leader's claim is very bold; how certain are we of the aliegance of the other inventor?

[Kadabra]

Stump, why did you choose the two lynch rule?

Snake Charmer, why did you choose the 75% conviction rule?

When you both could have chosen:

5 random players getting votes with double the weight. (gone when there are only 10 players left)

5 random players getting no vote. (gone when there are only 10 players left)

Why the difficult lynches instead of the double or no-votes.

God pill also makes the person bulletproof and unlynchable the next day. We can't lynch Snake Charmer today and The Stump was unlynchable yesterday. Who was voting for The Stump? Wasn't the Godfather trying to make a case against him all day?

Judging by what The Snake Charmer and The Stump decided to do with The God Pill, I would assume they're both Scum. Now, who has that pistol again...

Yes, I was building a case against Stump all day yesterday. By your logic (that Stump and Snake are scum buddies - full 100% agreement, no waffling and partial support from me today ), then if I was scum I wouldn't have tried to drag him into the light when nobody else was really looking at him after ML did. My opinion is vig kill on Stump/Charmer and lynch the other.

My pills:

Cursed: Placebo

Infectious: Upper (Not that helpful if both major PRs are going for lifesaver/god - role cop and inventor unfortunately can't alternate between uppers, as it would give them away to the scum. However, watching for people who DO jump on uppers would be a great way to find scum PRs).

On the inventor debacle - Tammo, what did you invent and who did you give it to? Would that person please confirm the claim? Otherwise, I'm inclined to believe our inventor gave the gun and that you're SK/Scum Inventor.

Rufus, sorry. Not Tammo.

[Adam]

When we hear all the pills from everyone, we can definitely take advantage of uppers. We have cop/doctor, JOAT and vig and we could easily give two of them uppers and one of them the lifesaver (and the god pill is always in play, as Female Lover says).

All of this is predicated upon the assumption that we either know where the Town power roles are assigned or that the real PR's will reveal themselves in the thread without contention. Already we have conflict over the identity of the Town inventor. What proof do we have to confirm these roles? What's to stop both scum and town from entering the thread and claiming a certain role? If that happens, how do we decide who gets what pill?

From what I can tell, this is what we know about PR's (at least, what has been revealed in-thread):

The Female Lover (Hinckley) and the BONAD (Bob) are in contact with someone who claims to be the vig and who claims to have targeted the Witch (Waterbrick) on the first night and nobody last night.

The Female Lover claims to know the identity of the JOAT.

The Female Lover and the Serious Roleplayer (Tamamono) are in contact with someone who claims to have received a gun from an inventor.

How is any of this as iron-tight as it's being made out to be? Obviously I don't know all the crap that's going on behind the scenes, but from this information, how can we be confident in trusting these roleclaims and giving them power pills?

Unless the JOAT and vig are both scum, town will be getting protection pills. One should get the Fairy Tale pill, one the Mystery pill.

And even if his JOAT/vig are scum, once they claim in-thread as PR, the real PRs will reveal themselves. It's a great plan and pretty much waterproof. Scum is getting lynched no matter what happens.

I'm not sure this is foolproof at all. There's a chance that we will be making our Town PR's unkillable and more powerful. There's also a chance that scum will get both of those unkillable pills and that the real PR's will get lost in translation, adding more confusion and uncertainty into the mess.

[Kadabra]

All of this is predicated upon the assumption that we either know where the Town power roles are assigned or that the real PR's will reveal themselves in the thread without contention. Already we have conflict over the identity of the Town inventor. What proof do we have to confirm these roles? What's to stop both scum and town from entering the thread and claiming a certain role? If that happens, how do we decide who gets what pill?

From what I can tell, this is what we know about PR's (at least, what has been revealed in-thread):

The Female Lover (Hinckley) and the BONAD (Bob) are in contact with someone who claims to be the vig and who claims to have targeted the Witch (Waterbrick) on the first night and nobody last night.

The Female Lover claims to know the identity of the JOAT.

The Female Lover and the Serious Roleplayer (Tamamono) are in contact with someone who claims to have received a gun from an inventor.

How is any of this as iron-tight as it's being made out to be? Obviously I don't know all the crap that's going on behind the scenes, but from this information, how can we be confident in trusting these roleclaims and giving them power pills?

I'm not sure this is foolproof at all. There's a chance that we will be making our Town PR's unkillable and more powerful. There's also a chance that scum will get both of those unkillable pills and that the real PR's will get lost in translation, adding more confusion and uncertainty into the mess.

Because if there's a scum behind the scenes with Honck right now, then the real one would have counterclaimed by this point and we would have already dealt with it. The real point of contention is the identity of the inventor, where there appears to be a conflict between the mystery gun-giver and Rufus. Role cop and Universal Backup are still unknowns.

Good job trying to poke holes in a nearly airtight plan, though, scumbag. Too bad it didn't work.

[mostlytechnic]

Because if there's a scum behind the scenes with Honck right now, then the real one would have counterclaimed by this point and we would have already dealt with it. The real point of contention is the identity of the inventor, where there appears to be a conflict between the mystery gun-giver and Rufus. Role cop and Universal Backup are still unknowns.

Good job trying to poke holes in a nearly airtight plan, though, scumbag. Too bad it didn't work.

Agree - if the vig and JOAT claims weren't legit, the real ones would have said something by now. I'm confident that Hinck knows the real power roles.

There is some risks in Hinck's "reveal it all" plan - I've been discussing some of it with him. However, I still think it's a good plan and stump and cult leader being against it makes them more scummy to me. Yes, scum could grab the good pills - but then we'd know they're scum and it'd help us deduce the remaining scum by posts and pills. And then we'd know who to lynch and kill. And since we'd know which pills were unkillable, we'd know which scum to focus the lynches on and which to let the vig and guns take out at night.

[Hinckley]

I know the Universal Backup as well who is offered each role that has left the Town. I know what PRs should still be around for the Town.

Everyone vote on if you like the plan or not. If you don't vote, you're Scum.

Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan

Vote: No for Reveal All Plan

I want to know what everyone thinks. For me, since I came up with the plan, Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan

[mostlytechnic]

Pills: At this point, Hunter and Mystical are the only ones I haven't heard any claims about what they are (not counting the pills that are gone due to dead players). So, Stump, Goon, and Ursurper, wanna share?

Lower priority... NPC, wanna share what Zubzub did?

Anyone know what paradise, old fashioned, heart med, or insanity did?

[Hinckley]

First Day Lynch, Talking Animal, Stump, Godfather and Serious Roleplayer. You're all reading this, vote or you're Scum.

[mostlytechnic]

Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan

First Day Lynch, Talking Animal, Stump, Godfather and Serious Roleplayer. You're all reading this, vote or you're Scum.

I show that FDL, me, godfather, roleplayer are currently here - I don't show stump, so maybe he left. Not defending (as I'm leaning scum on him) but don't want wrong accusations distracting us either.

[Kadabra]

Jesus, Hinckley, give a guy time to read the thread! Considering that I was just shooting down Stump and I revealed my pills, I think it's obvious that I will Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan.

[Hinckley]

Serial Killer, you can't win if you keep killing Townies. Work with us. Watch who we're suspecting and try to get some Scum out of here too. They win with you alive or not and you would lose, so stop helping them. The Jester seemed like a good vig choice, maybe, but go for the ones who seem Scummy please. It's the only way you'll win. Maybe we can convince you to target the same person the vig is so we reduce our losses every night. You want to out yourself and work with us, right? Pwease!...

[mostlytechnic]

And now I show stump here, so...

[Hinckley]

Jesus, Hinckley, give a guy time to read the thread! Considering that I was just shooting down Stump and I revealed my pills, I think it's obvious that I will Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan.

Read faster! And don't call me Jesus.

[Tamamono]

Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan

In my defense, I was away from the computer.

[Adam]

Because if there's a scum behind the scenes with Honck right now, then the real one would have counterclaimed by this point and we would have already dealt with it. The real point of contention is the identity of the inventor, where there appears to be a conflict between the mystery gun-giver and Rufus. Role cop and Universal Backup are still unknowns.

Good job trying to poke holes in a nearly airtight plan, though, scumbag. Too bad it didn't work.

Exactly. This is the first I'm hearing about the JOAT being known, there is conflict over the inventor, and the Role Cop and Blocker are UNKNOWN. Even if we accept the vig as the real deal, that leaves THREE ROLES THAT WE DO NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN. Do you not see how having three unknowns can lead to multiple roleclaims? What if some of those roles are amongst the several dead townies? That leaves room for the scum to jump into the equation as impostors.

Yesterday the Female Lover was all up on the BONAD's megablocks for jumping the gun and outing the Witch's pill. Now we just jump into this reveal all plan without any real discussion or examination of the risks involved.

Yes, scum could grab the good pills - but then we'd know they're scum and it'd help us deduce the remaining scum by posts and pills. And then we'd know who to lynch and kill. And since we'd know which pills were unkillable, we'd know which scum to focus the lynches on and which to let the vig and guns take out at night.

Look at it this way: say we accept that the vig and the JOAT are who they say they are (though I have heard nothing in-thread about the JOAT being known before today). They pop in and take some form of power pill, be it an upper or a lifesaver or the God pill. OK, that's fine.

Then the Cult Leader and the other claimed inventor come into the thread, both asking for a pill. Who gets the pill?

Next the Role Cop and the Blocker pop in and ask for pills. But a second Role Cop and a second Blocker arrive and also ask for pills. Then the Universal Backup comes along and says that nope, one of those roles is dead and that he or she has been offered the role.

There are a ton of different ways this can and will play out. Female Lover, what proof do you have that the JOAT and the Universal Backup are who they say they are? How will we account for the other roles, like Role Cop and Blocker?

This vote on the "reveal all plan" is useless right now. It's already been put into place. At this point all we can do is watch as people start to claim. So yes, I'll Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan. If this vote had been proposed earlier, then I would be saying no.

[jimmynick]

First Day Lynch, Talking Animal, Stump, Godfather and Serious Roleplayer. You're all reading this, vote or you're Scum.

Sorry, sometimes I forget to close the tab when I'm done catching up. Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan

Talking Animal: I've forgotten where they were mentioned, but I have Placebo for both Mystical and Old Fashioned.

[Kadabra]

Exactly. This is the first I'm hearing about the JOAT being known, there is conflict over the inventor, and the Role Cop and Blocker are UNKNOWN. Even if we accept the vig as the real deal, that leaves THREE ROLES THAT WE DO NOT KNOW FOR CERTAIN. Do you not see how having three unknowns can lead to multiple roleclaims? What if some of those roles are amongst the several dead townies? That leaves room for the scum to jump into the equation as impostors.

Yesterday the Female Lover was all up on the BONAD's megablocks for jumping the gun and outing the Witch's pill. Now we just jump into this reveal all plan without any real discussion or examination of the risks involved.

Look at it this way: say we accept that the vig and the JOAT are who they say they are (though I have heard nothing in-thread about the JOAT being known before today). They pop in and take some form of power pill, be it an upper or a lifesaver or the God pill. OK, that's fine.

Then the Cult Leader and the other claimed inventor come into the thread, both asking for a pill. Who gets the pill?

Next the Role Cop and the Blocker pop in and ask for pills. But a second Role Cop and a second Blocker arrive and also ask for pills. Then the Universal Backup comes along and says that nope, one of those roles is dead and that he or she has been offered the role.

There are a ton of different ways this can and will play out. Female Lover, what proof do you have that the JOAT and the Universal Backup are who they say they are? How will we account for the other roles, like Role Cop and Blocker?

This vote on the "reveal all plan" is useless right now. It's already been put into place. At this point all we can do is watch as people start to claim. So yes, I'll Vote: Yes for Reveal All Plan. If this vote had been proposed earlier, then I would be saying no.

Honck revealed that a JOAT claimed to him yesterday, if he were scum the real one would have counterclaimed. As far as Rolecop and Blocker, they will remain unknowns so the scum don't target them. DUH. Why would we have more PRs public than we do lifesaver/God pills?

[mostlytechnic]

thanks for that update... I had old fashioned as possible placebo but unsure, so not sure who said it either.

[Kadabra]

Rufus doesn't get a good pill until we have confirmation of who's the real inventor. He gets a placebo. People without night actions should take the uppers so the scum don't get 'em.

[Hinckley]

Exactly. This is the first I'm hearing about the JOAT being known,

Then start paying attention. Lazy Town kills Town. Unless you're Scum, then go do whatever you want.

Do you not see how having three unknowns can lead to multiple roleclaims?

Do you not see how multiple roleclaims lead us to lynching Scum?

What if some of those roles are amongst the several dead townies? That leaves room for the scum to jump into the equation as impostors.

I know what roles are dead, if any.

Look at it this way: say we accept that the vig and the JOAT are who they say they are (though I have heard nothing in-thread about the JOAT being known before today).

Then read other days and try to pay attention.

Then the Cult Leader and the other claimed inventor come into the thread, both asking for a pill. Who gets the pill?

If we're going to decide beforehand who gets what I would say we ask both claimed Inventors to take a placebo.

Next the Role Cop and the Blocker pop in and ask for pills. But a second Role Cop and a second Blocker arrive and also ask for pills. Then the Universal Backup comes along and says that nope, one of those roles is dead and that he or she has been offered the role.

Exposing lies is bad? What's the alternative? Scum are the only ones who know that they're lying? Scum would need to expose themselves to get those pills. Town and Serial Killer want them dead. Can the pistol be used during the day?

If the other Inventor is the Scum one, the one that gave the pistol, then they were very clever indeed in who they gave it to. Let me think who might do that... Time to put my metagame cap on.

There are a ton of different ways this can and will play out. Female Lover, what proof do you have that the JOAT and the Universal Backup are who they say they are? How will we account for the other roles, like Role Cop and Blocker?

If we vote to reveal all, then I will reveal all.

This vote on the "reveal all plan" is useless right now. It's already been put into place. At this point all we can do is watch as people start to claim.

Wrong. The pills may be being revealed but we haven't revealed the PRs yet. We can still discuss who we think should take what pill.

As far as I know, the vig and JOAT are OK with being revealed. I want to see what the whole Town thinks. We do need to really think out and discuss all possibilities.

[mostlytechnic]

Yesterday the Female Lover was all up on the BONAD's megablocks for jumping the gun and outing the Witch's pill. Now we just jump into this reveal all plan without any real discussion or examination of the risks involved.

Um, we've been discussing this plan ALL DAY. Some has been in thread, some behind the scenes. But any argument against it has had plenty of time to come out and be discussed. If you have specific issues, bring them out and we'll talk about it. But it's getting to be a little late for that... but as it stands, we've lost 6 town vs 1 scum, and the scum knew around half the pills (even before people started sharing today) so they had a big advantage! Sharing the pills is one of the best things we could to do level the playing field.

If we vote to reveal all, then I will reveal all.

As far as I know, the vig and JOAT are OK with being revealed. I want to see what the whole Town thinks. We do need to really think out and discuss all possibilities.

Hinck, I was laughing so hard at your snarky replies to Stump that my wife asked what was going on! (maybe that just means I need to get some sleep... dunno)

And I think some clarification here would help - what eXACTLY do you mean by reveal ALL - ALL the roles and pills? All the pills and the vig and JOAT? Kadabra suggested the blocker/rolecop stay secret so that we don't have more known roles than protection pills... what's your thoughts there?