Ragnarök Now Redux - Day One

[jimmynick]

Is this you trying to appear as helpful by saying I'm leading the conversation in the wrong direction--by saying that I'm not helpful? No--getting the conversation away from extreme role playing is more helpful. If anything, you seem to be avoiding talking about the past--sad that Loki didn't succeed the first time?

But I thank thee Naemer for saying one of the wisest things today... the ox/cow piss thing was getting abit of topic

Neither what Naemr nor Mist has said sits well with me; it's silly to suggest that this second redux'd Ragnarok shares similarities with the first, apart from certain einherjar who are back to get some more, you know what I mean?

Also, going a little meta, I recall a time when someone called Janice said something fairly obvious about not ragging on people who say "Day One" sorts of things, and a scummy scummo called Paris responded almost the exact way that Mist has just now:

*falsetto* This is one of the wisest things I've seen yet, dahlings. Preach it, Janice!

So to wind up the most use of words Jarni use in Ragnarok so far, I'm willing to give Naemr a little slack for saying what I (and Janice) would call a "Day One" statement, so my suspcion mostly points at Mist, whose words suggest she may have been studying scummy scummo behaviour to learn some lessons for Ragnarok.

You boil it down and make a paste that disinfects a wound. It's part of our heritage.

Why would we need ox piss poultices for our wounds? We will have all the boar we like when Ragnarok has concluded!

[Mencot]

Neither what Naemr nor Mist has said sits well with me; it's silly to suggest that this second redux'd Ragnarok shares similarities with the first, apart from certain einherjar who are back to get some more, you know what I mean?

What I didn´t say that... I feel that it isn´t some much point studing the last game because as it is another game and this is now

I think we have our first player "Jarni" who does the "Mix what an other player said and make up words into their mouths to make them look bad" right here

Also, going a little meta, I recall a time when someone called Janice said something fairly obvious about not ragging on people who say "Day One" sorts of things, and a scummy scummo called Paris responded almost the exact way that Mist has just now:

Has I said, the response of Naemr was one of the wisest things today (meaning not so much nonsence) nothing meaning I said anything wise, I have only done meaningless drunk roleplaying so far.

So again an exemple from Jarni trying to mix my words

So to wind up the most use of words Jarni use in Ragnarok so far, I'm willing to give Naemr a little slack for saying what I (and Janice) would call a "Day One" statement, so my suspcion mostly points at Mist, whose words suggest she may have been studying scummy scummo behaviour to learn some lessons for Ragnarok.

So what do you mean, when I have sometime followed and read throught the last game that I have some pointers in who is scum and who is not... no I don´t

but the ones trying to mix up the words of other players and just quoting some of their stuff to make them look bad ARE on my list of scummy scummos

But if we want to talk about nonsence all day, lets talk about something else then cow piss

that is not what really warriors would talk about.

Lets talk about drinking mead (and drink it actually) and about our strong deeds what we did when we were still alive

AND lets get our warrior spirit up so we can take out those traitors of Loki

[CMP]

What I didn´t say that... I feel that it isn´t some much point studing the last game because as it is another game and this is now

I think we have our first player "Jarni" who does the "Mix what an other player said and make up words into their mouths to make them look bad" right here

And yet it's one of the wisest things said today in your eyes?

Meaningless roleplaying is wiser than suggesting similarities in the game setup that may not even exist are going to help us, in my eyes.

[Hinckley]

Well it is true that Loki is a trickster god; and that does mean they are likely to try something different, but that doesn't me we should forget about the last Ragnarock all together.

Shirley, in your desire to know the events of the last Ragnarok, you checked the magic Mafia Games Index Scroll: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=76108

I do agree that there may be some similarities but knowing this particular God and having played God myself in past lives, it's never wise to metagame God and assume anything about the setup based on past setups.

I'm sure though that we can expect some weirdness as God has specifically said–in our mystical land of Sign-up Thread–he couldn't help but put some weirdness in this one.

[Hinckley]

Finally, someone like Naemr is talking some sense here. Sad enough, I don't think we have any concrete information to sniff those scummy scums out...

What about it makes sense to you?

There is some sence in Naemer´s speech but I don´t know if there is much to go on in reality as others pointed out. I wasn´t at Valhalla that time because I was riding with the other valkyrie but I heard about what happened but here are some of thee that were. But we don´t know if these heroes are truly still einherjar or has Loki´s poisoned some of their minds. What I am trying to say we can´t trust everything until we start having a clue about whom are servents of Loki.

But I thank thee Naemer for saying one of the wisest things today... the ox/cow piss thing was getting abit of topic

Oh look, a vague summary. Thank you.

[MagPiesRUs]

You may now vote. With 22 players, 12 votes are required to lynch. 48 hours remain in the day.

[Scubacarrot]

"Gonna start us off by voting for who I personally think is the most suspicious so far. This person has a tendency to work on my suspicion sense though, so I don't really know how accurate this feeling is, but on the other hand, NOT voting for someone who you think is suspicious sounds dumb."

Vote: Naemr Sledgehammer (Captain Nemo)

"My reasoning being that what he's saying, suggesting gathering clues from the previous Ragnarök incident without actually doing, is a prime example of something a scum would say, and something a true Valhallan would have no reason to say."

[Mencot]

Oh look, a vague summary. Thank you.

Yea wasn´t it, hand me some of that cow piss maybe it will cure my bad speech (english writting)

Hopefuly it will blend with the mead

"Gonna start us off by voting for who I personally think is the most suspicious so far. This person has a tendency to work on my suspicion sense though, so I don't really know how accurate this feeling is, but on the other hand, NOT voting for someone who you think is suspicious sounds dumb."

Vote: Naemr Sledgehammer (Captain Nemo)

True suspicion is almost all we have to go on but I am not gonna be this fast throwing stones yet.

[TrumpetKing]

Finally, someone like Naemr is talking some sense here. Sad enough, I don't think we have any concrete information to sniff those scummy scums out...

This quote bugs me. It's one of those posts that we tend to see scummy bummies use a lot to appear active and persuade us not to look into anything because it's only day one. It's day one, we sure as hell won't have concrete information to go off of, but that doesn't mean we can't build a case using somebody's behavior. I haven't seen much of this fellow outside of Valhalla, so I can't speak for what he normally acts like, but for right now, it's worth a vote in my book.

Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang)

[Hinckley]

I hate first day voting.

There seems to be a lot of hubble nubble and slap dash in this afterlife, but not anything to obviously lynch. Though I have made a note of Kolgrima's seeming discomfort with such a mighty Vahallian as myself proudly revelling in my status. Valhalla is not a place for the meek and shy. As I munch on a hambone and swallow my grog, perhaps I will find time to regale us with a rousting tale or two of my exploits, pillaging my way across Europe. Ah, the towns I burned in Odin's name, bellowing laughter as I trotted away with their possessions, my belly swollen with wine. I so miss pillaging. It was great fun!

I know you are typically heavy handed when it comes to pronouncing your intentions to help the Town but this seems a bit thick even for you. I gladly put on the table that I tend to suspect you and don't want to have a repeat of lives past, but outside of your greatness, do you have any opinion on what other people have said?

Yea wasn´t it, hand me some of that cow piss maybe it will cure my bad speech (english writting)

Hopefuly it will blend with the mead

True suspicion is almost all we have to go on but I am not gonna be this fast throwing stones yet.

You don't want to throw stones yet you bristled at Jarni when he questioned you. You accused him of mixing your words. Why have you dropped this so quickly?

This quote bugs me. It's one of those posts that we tend to see scummy bummies use a lot to appear active and persuade us not to look into anything because it's only day one. It's day one, we sure as hell won't have concrete information to go off of, but that doesn't mean we can't build a case using somebody's behavior. I haven't seen much of this fellow outside of Valhalla, so I can't speak for what he normally acts like, but for right now, it's worth a vote in my book.

Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang)

It's aggravatingly typical. I agree his statement is useless but if we're going to base suspicion on his past performances, it doesn't tell us anything about what side he's on.

"Gonna start us off by voting for who I personally think is the most suspicious so far. This person has a tendency to work on my suspicion sense though, so I don't really know how accurate this feeling is, but on the other hand, NOT voting for someone who you think is suspicious sounds dumb."

Vote: Naemr Sledgehammer (Captain Nemo)

"My reasoning being that what he's saying, suggesting gathering clues from the previous Ragnarök incident without actually doing, is a prime example of something a scum would say, and something a true Valhallan would have no reason to say."

The first person to tell us to stop joking around does draw suspicion. That's a risky move for a Scum to make. Asking us what happened in the first game instead of checking himself bothered me.

Naemr, what did you find from researching the first game? Did you look into it when I provided the link?

Baulf, do you have anything to say this time around? Or are you going to be typically absent?

Sigrid, have anything else to say, hopefully not in third person?

You know, about half of us haven't said very much so far...

[Bob]

Baulf, do you have anything to say this time around? Or are you going to be typically absent?

Voting recently opened and I have been speaking for most of the day. I'm not sure why you've singled me out.

Regardless, two people have flared up in my opinion and that's Snotra and Naemr, mostly by things that they've said. It's just an instinct, though. Also, I'm a bit iffy about Sigrid's roleplaying. Even though her "character description" says she's taken a vow of silence, she could still speak up a little bit by "writing down notes". Just an observation. Perhaps Sigrid is going to take advantage of this lack of speech in an effort to fly under the radar.

[Captain Nemo]

The first person to tell us to stop joking around does draw suspicion. That's a risky move for a Scum to make. Asking us what happened in the first game instead of checking himself bothered me.

Naemr, what did you find from researching the first game? Did you look into it when I provided the link?

While drawing negative suspicion to myself was not my intent; the main point being I was attempting to help the town; suspicion seems to have happened instead--though I can assure you I'm not scum. Part of my reason for asking about people's experience in the first Ragnarok was for the fact that they had experienced it--conversations from PM for example are not things that can be found from past day threads, but could account for important actions taken. Basically, I'd feel the information would be more useful from a first hand account then from a Day thread. So far it seems though people don't want to talk about it, or rather talk at all today.

---

I did look at the link, as well as some of the other Day threads. Not much to go off of, though I did note that Loki did mention at the conclusion that he had "two-factions" of traitors, which I took to mean scum and neutral; though he then says he forgot to get two factions--and looking back, there were no neutrals during the first Ragnarok, despite the rules indicating there could/would be; perhaps that means Loki will not forget this time?

You can take that information if you like (Anyone), but it's just a thought I had; really my thoughts today have been about conversation that's more useful than roleplaying about ox urine uses. Apparently that makes me suspicious to some, but I'm just putting my thoughts out there.

[Kristel]

I hate first day voting.

So do I.

Is there a reason you left Dagstyrr off your list. He hasn't said anything yet.

[TrumpetKing]

Voting recently opened and I have been speaking for most of the day. I'm not sure why you've singled me out.

Regardless, two people have flared up in my opinion and that's Snotra and Naemr, mostly by things that they've said. It's just an instinct, though. Also, I'm a bit iffy about Sigrid's roleplaying. Even though her "character description" says she's taken a vow of silence, she could still speak up a little bit by "writing down notes". Just an observation. Perhaps Sigrid is going to take advantage of this lack of speech in an effort to fly under the radar.

I hate asking this since you tend to be town when I do, but do you have anything actually specific about Snotra and Naemr, or are you just going to agree with everybody like usual?

[Mencot]

I hate first day voting.

I think everybody do

You don't want to throw stones yet you bristled at Jarni when he questioned you. You accused him of mixing your words. Why have you dropped this so quickly?

I haven´t, I said I wont yet go on anything but I haven´t dropped that he did this.

But again he has been around to say anything after my comment so I will not say anything on that matter until

[jimmynick]

But again he has been around to say anything after my comment

I have been around, but I didn't feel a need to respond because I have transparently *not* been twisting your words. But since you asked:

What I didn´t say that...

I know you didn't; I quoted what you and Naemr said that set me on edge - the fact is, I haven't twisted your words. All I did was notice a striking similarity in a phrase used by both you (Mist) and a well-known scumster (Paris Shawty). I put it to you that you've been reading up on how to be a scummo and have slipped up.

I notice Helga and Tumi make a fair point about Wilhalm - who "stoked the flame" set by Naemr then quietly slipped out...

Also, Kolgrima, would you like to express an opinion about today's Naemr-Mist-Wilhalm triangle, or will you just point out mistakes when Helga falls into an ox-urine stupor?

[def]

I hate first day voting.

As opposed to those who... Filler.

I know you are typically heavy handed when it comes to pronouncing your intentions to help the Town but this seems a bit thick even for you. I gladly put on the table that I tend to suspect you and don't want to have a repeat of lives past, but outside of your greatness, do you have any opinion on what other people have said?

Sometimes, I like to lay it on thick. Depends on my mood. Sometimes the Valhallaest of Valhallans doesn't appear. Luckily, I have the time today to regale everyone with my delightfulness. Like the time I went to France and single-handedly laid waste to half the fields in Champagne. That taught them a lesson about settling in the north with foofy aplomb.

As you say, and I well know, you pretty much always suspect me day one. I'd say your record for day one voting for me is around 90%. It's pain, but I've gotten used to it, and I don't consider it your scum tell, just kind of like a duncey farm hand who bumps into the same door frame day after day, despite knowing entirely it's there, repeatedly doing the same thing despite the intense softness that develops in the noggin in the region being battered. I can't hold you responsible for that.

For what's being said, I'm on the fence about a few. My question to Naemr was based on suspicion on where he was leading with his questions... Undecided. He may have been trying to waste our time, thinking on day one that the way people act would relate to the last game, but he may have just spoke poorly.

You know, about half of us haven't said very much so far...

Yeah, that's usually a sign.

There is some sence in Naemer´s speech but I don´t know if there is much to go on in reality as others pointed out. I wasn´t at Valhalla that time because I was riding with the other valkyrie but I heard about what happened but here are some of thee that were. But we don´t know if these heroes are truly still einherjar or has Loki´s poisoned some of their minds. What I am trying to say we can´t trust everything until we start having a clue about whom are servents of Loki.

But I thank thee Naemer for saying one of the wisest things today... the ox/cow piss thing was getting abit of topic

I don't like this. There was little sense in what Naemer spoke, and then you backtrack that, and go with the group. Nothing much said here at all. Fluff.

True suspicion is almost all we have to go on but I am not gonna be this fast throwing stones yet.

This is the wrongest thing said all day. Unvoting is allowed. The day doesn't end with a majority vote. Voting early is very very important, especially so that we can turn things around if a mistake has been made. This waffly advice is very harmful to the town. Scum often like to seem like they are being safe to help the town, even though their advice is actually hurting the town.

J'accuse Mist! (something I learned in my time in Champagne.

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

I haven't seen much of this fellow outside of Valhalla, so I can't speak for what he normally acts like, but for right now, it's worth a vote in my book.

He's a funny one. He generally doesn't say much, and often many times has slipped through to the end without being voted out or killed. Half the time he's town, half the time scum, but just slips through with a no-play strategy. I'm not sure if it still holds true, but previously, he held the record for the most survivals. Baffling!

He's much like Baulf, but Baulf always gets voted out and Wilhelm rarely does. Strange how that works!

[Hinckley]

So do I.

Is there a reason you left Dagstyrr off your list. He hasn't said anything yet.

As I said at least half of us haven't said much today. I said that after noticing you, amongst others, were as quiet as Baulf and Sigrid. Throw Dagstyrr in the mix too if you like. Are you suspicious of him or would you just like to hear my opinion of him? I feel like I suspect everybody and am not sure rattling off any more names will be helpful at this point.

While drawing negative suspicion to myself was not my intent; the main point being I was attempting to help the town; suspicion seems to have happened instead--though I can assure you I'm not scum. Part of my reason for asking about people's experience in the first Ragnarok was for the fact that they had experienced it--conversations from PM for example are not things that can be found from past day threads, but could account for important actions taken. Basically, I'd feel the information would be more useful from a first hand account then from a Day thread. So far it seems though people don't want to talk about it, or rather talk at all today.

---

I don't understand what you're asking for then. Do you think people will be able to judge affiliation by specific people's behavior just in the last Ragnarok game? That's weird.

I did look at the link, as well as some of the other Day threads. Not much to go off of, though I did note that Loki did mention at the conclusion that he had "two-factions" of traitors, which I took to mean scum and neutral; though he then says he forgot to get two factions--and looking back, there were no neutrals during the first Ragnarok, despite the rules indicating there could/would be; perhaps that means Loki will not forget this time?

It was a joke. The Einherjar were suspicious that the Servants of Loki were so easy to catch and thought there might be two factions. The host was making a joke. There was only one faction that proved to be very easy to catch.

I hate asking this since you tend to be town when I do, but do you have anything actually specific about Snotra and Naemr, or are you just going to agree with everybody like usual?

Just to be a stickler, I don't see anybody else saying Snotra is suspicious.

Just annoying. "For the quote megablocks."

when Helga falls into an ox-urine stupor?

That is a side effect of ox urine treatment.

[Kristel]

Also, Kolgrima, would you like to express an opinion about today's Naemr-Mist-Wilhalm triangle, or will you just point out mistakes when Helga falls into an ox-urine stupor?

Sure, just for you.

Wilhalm is at the top of my list at this point. His first post of the day came off as a little forced to me, and then the one that got him on other people's radars:

Finally, someone like Naemr is talking some sense here. Sad enough, I don't think we have any concrete information to sniff those scummy scums out...

I agree that this does little more than make him look active without adding anything useful. I thought it was interesting how Helga pointed out that that it's normal behaviour and we can't read anything from it yet.

I think Naemr is sounding a little less flustered at the moment compared to other times I've come across him in my pillaging travels. I'm still to determine whether this is because he is an Einherjar or a result of coaching from Servant of Loki buddies. I'm leaning Einherjar.

Jarni, do you know that Helga leaving Dagstyrr off the list was a mistake? Or do you just want everyone to think it was a mistake to deflect attention away from another Servant of Loki. But then it's all about reactions to poking at this stage of the game, isn't it?

Like the way you poked Mist. I thought even for you that was stretching it a little too far, suggesting that he was learning from the great Paris. I'm not sure about Mist. Some seem to think he's worthy of a vote, but I think he's been somewhat reasonable and sensible so far.

I would like to hear from Dagstyrr. He's not really a suspect because I think it highly unlikely that a Servant of Loki would bring attention to themselves by not having posted yet more than a third into the day. But staying silent isn't going to help us find the Servants.

[jimmynick]

Jarni, do you know that Helga leaving Dagstyrr off the list was a mistake? Or do you just want everyone to think it was a mistake to deflect attention away from another Servant of Loki. But then it's all about reactions to poking at this stage of the game, isn't it?

I don't really have an opinion or, rather, I'm not informed enough to say one way or another. Yes, Dagstyrr, hasn't said anything at all today. But, since we got past ox-urine to discussion of suspicions, neither have Finn the Squinter, Chief Mursi, Patrekr the Red, Lefsi Red-Shirt, Sigrid, Chlodochar, or Petr Half-Troll (and Baulf, before Helga called him out).

I'm not going to be a Helga-apologist, but I don't see anything particularly special about Dagstyrr compared to anyone else who hasn't said anything recently, and Helga obviously had certain people but not others in mind when making her contribution.

[Hinckley]

kind of like a duncey farm hand who bumps into the same door frame day after day, despite knowing entirely it's there, repeatedly doing the same thing despite the intense softness that develops in the noggin in the region being battered. I can't hold you responsible for that.

At least we won't be doing the usual insult war devolving into childish standoff. Only because I'm going to leave your rude statement alone.

I don't like this. There was little sense in what Naemer spoke, and then you backtrack that, and go with the group. Nothing much said here at all. Fluff.

This is the wrongest thing said all day. Unvoting is allowed. The day doesn't end with a majority vote. Voting early is very very important, especially so that we can turn things around if a mistake has been made. This waffly advice is very harmful to the town. Scum often like to seem like they are being safe to help the town, even though their advice is actually hurting the town.

J'accuse Mist! (something I learned in my time in Champagne.

Vote: Mist (Mencot)

Interestingly, you agree with the farm hand dunce today. Vote: Mist (Mencot) As I pointed out early, you swooped in with a little summary after Naemr's nonsense idea. It was a clumsy summary and somewhat ramblingt. Not sure you were making a point or just trying to look like you were contributing. You got defensive when Jarni mentioned you as suspicious and shot back against him, yet said you had no suspicions when voting opened. There is plenty of time to unvote but I feel my vote is well placed with you.

There are some really smart players out there we haven't heard much from yet.

[def]

At least we won't be doing the usual insult war devolving into childish standoff. Only because I'm going to leave your rude statement alone.

I'm not insulting anyone. I used the word "like," not "as." You are in no way a duncey farmhand. Merely resembling one

There are some really smart players out there we haven't heard much from yet.

That is a concern. Now, I'm not a person who spends much time in the Americas, but isn't this a time when they have plentiful free time to use in Valhalla? Or would they be more bogged down than usual on a weekend?

[Hinckley]

I'm not insulting anyone. I used the word "like," not "as." You are in no way a duncey farmhand. Merely resembling one

That's much better. Sorry I misunderstood. Good to know it's a simile and not a metaphor. Or is the other way around?

That is a concern. Now, I'm not a person who spends much time in the Americas, but isn't this a time when they have plentiful free time to use in Valhalla? Or would they be more bogged down than usual on a weekend?

Well, it was Thanksgiving weekend and Americans are probably shopping or putting up decorations. However, the smarties I'm worried about are Rurik of Gofraid, neither American. They are experienced players and haven't contributed much yet. Although they aren't know for being prolific posters as much as for being smart.

[TrumpetKing]

Dufa's made an interesting, more convincing point about Mist. While I agree with those points, I have a hard time voting for her, as I do tend to lead towards scum towards her past lives every time we meet, and I'm failing to see what makes her playing yle that much different than other times.

Helga and Dufa both say that Wilhalm tends to play this way each time. I think some books need dusting and some research needs to be done, and I'll be able to get a better idea of his activity

[def]

Dufa's made an interesting, more convincing point about Mist. While I agree with those points, I have a hard time voting for her, as I do tend to lead towards scum towards her past lives every time we meet, and I'm failing to see what makes her playing yle that much different than other times.

Regardless, not voting early is a very bad thing. We have forty hours to change things up. If we all wait until the last minute, it's pretty much guaranteed that day one will end up bagging a townie.

<The logic being that by the time we finally reach a majority, it will be too late to turn things around should the lynchee reveal a convincing claim/counter-argument, whereas we can change course numerous times if we get to voting early.>

I implore the town to start voting. Lots of talking, but only four votes. Mischievous Servants of Loki, just stay quiet, and we can pick you off one at a time