Ragnarök Now Redux - Day Two

[LegoDad]

Trying to rally the town or trying to appear helpful there? I don't see much from you thus far.

No, he knows he's safe because he didn't say anything yesterday for there to have been a slip up.

[WhiteFang]

Seriously, if anything concrete must come up today, I do think we need to see any possible connections based on Day 1 and Night 1.

I am trying to be helpful and I am trying to make logical sense like all of us here. Yea, people don't like I come and go, but at the very least I am not attempting to derail or distract with improbable logic.

Helga, I am not saying that I am confused with the 3 killers possibilities, but surely will have 3 killers. Most probable, that our town vigilante may have acted on his/her own instinct but claimed the wrong life. I think this might be obvious to some, but photographic clue often provide a good start to probe in a more relevant manner.

The 3 killers consist of the following,

Mystery killer wielding 'gladius': targeted Kolgrima

Mystery killer wielding 'long sword': targeted Chlodochar

Mystery killer wielding 'long axe': targeted Mist

Let's put a test to something: I am boldly assuming that the long axe is the 'odd ball', simply because the choice of weapon is not blade related. Which mean, Kologrima and Choldochar's deaths are inflicted by Einherjar or the Servants of Loki, leaving the long axe to the probable serial/insane/neutral/3rd party or whatever killer.

OR probably the long axe killer belonged to the Servants of Loki and one of the blade killers is either Einherjar or the probable serial/insane/neutral/3rd party or whatever killer.

This is merely pointing out something of relevance which will be useful after Night 2 is over, as there are other power packed characters which are given certain sacred roles to prevent the Einherjar's mishaps.

To others who kept judging on my playing style, this is myself, Wilhalm. Attempt to accuse me for my inactivity is a choice of metagaming me. I am not going to claim that I am 100% clean, because no one in here will take the word for it. Likewise, for anyone who are thinking you can trust anyone 100%, please don't...

I am just guessing the possibilities... especially since many previous games of life, must have realised that the real action sometimes can be behind close doors. I have not been in contact in private with any of you yet, but I strongly urge ALL not to be tricked by the Servants of Loki. Please exercise caution and discretion when there are interaction behind closed doors. You will never know what can be the grave consequences.

This is my strong advise to all to heed and to take note.

[CMP]

*Snip*

I hope this isn't your attempt at trying to be helpful...

[WhiteFang]

I hope this isn't your attempt at trying to be helpful...

Care to elaborate?

[CorneliusMurdock]

At least he said something, I guess.

[CMP]

Care to elaborate?

You uselessly speculate on the killers (maybe if you focused more on which/what faction(s) targeted which player it wouldn't been forgivable, but it seems to be all about the choice of weapon from what you guess on), making several pointless observations in the process, you state anyone suspecting you based on your inactivity is metagaming, and urge everyone to not get tricked by the Servants of Loki.

And you tell everyone to take note of this 'strong advice'.

If anyone needs to be told to be careful in this situation, just lie down and die, please.

[jimmynick]

It was Day One, and scum didn't need a lynch.

Gofraid, why do you keep insisting the scum didn't need a lynch? Lynch is better than no-lynch when it gets rid of a townie.

For reference, the following people voted for Petr yesterday:

Petr Half-Troll (Piratedave84): 12 votes (Captain Nemo, jamesn, Cornelius Murdock, Hinckley, CallMePie, Rick, Fugazi, LegoDad, Waterbrick Down, Palathadric, Captain Genaro, Darkdragon)

Interestingly, only Crocodile has been confirmed town out of the people who voted for Petr. All the other dead voted for Sigrid (except Kolgrima, who abstained). I posit that a number of scum *did* vote for Petr, especially in the bolded names. The names I bolded voted for Petr after the vote was 9-6 in favour of Sigrid.

Patrekr changed his vote from Sigrid to Petr because he claimed suspicious people voted for Sigrid. I assume from these posts he means Tumi, Wilhalm, Mist and... Patrekr (?) Please elaborate and correct me if you mean other people, Patrekr.

Let's put a test to something: I am boldly assuming that the long axe is the 'odd ball', simply because the choice of weapon is not blade related. Which mean, Kologrima and Choldochar's deaths are inflicted by Einherjar or the Servants of Loki, leaving the long axe to the probable serial/insane/neutral/3rd party or whatever killer.

OR probably the long axe killer belonged to the Servants of Loki and one of the blade killers is either Einherjar or the probable serial/insane/neutral/3rd party or whatever killer.

So the axe killer is probably a serial killer, or it could be someone else? Thanks for the help.

[WhiteFang]

*snip*

Having data to see for yourself or letting individual to relate the data and convert it to useful information. Which will be more appropriate? An useless input is equate to putting forth an all talk no action individual, basically a drama king/queen. That does not help directly to the overall situation but it does add much fun into it. You blatantly assumed that I am speculating, is because I merely re-defined. How will one constitute pointless observation, so you will rather I shut my trap and don't add anything concrete. I will love to see others coming up forth to share their direct findings, isn't it that more of concrete than subtle? Your high handed attitude simply ought to be restrain.

[CMP]

Having data to see for yourself or letting individual to relate the data and convert it to useful information. Which will be more appropriate? An useless input is equate to putting forth an all talk no action individual, basically a drama king/queen. That does not help directly to the overall situation but it does add much fun into it. You blatantly assumed that I am speculating, is because I merely re-defined.

You're trying to find solid answers where there are none. And I never assume we'll be getting any.

Look at people's behavior. Look at their actions and reactions, every little thing they do. Staring at a picture trying to fit those three little slivers of information into something that gets us anywhere in finding the Servants isn't helpful or constructive.

You are speculating, and no, it's not adding much fun at all.

How will one constitute pointless observation, so you will rather I shut my trap and don't add anything concrete. I will love to see others coming up forth to share their direct findings, isn't it that more of concrete than subtle?

Nobody thus far HAS added anything direct or concrete. Don't pretend that you are.

[def]

I'm starting to worry Wilheim has a case of the restating syndrome, where he just lets us know what we know, rather than come to any conclusions.

For the vote today, I am leaning back to Sigrid. I've talked a little with Mursi, and while I'm not feeling 100% safe about him, I do think there were some legitimate misunderstandings in our communications.

The scenarios I have are these:

1) lynch Sigrid- she's scum. Mursi might be scum trying to save her, but any of the rest of Petr's voters could have been instead.

2) lynch Sigrid- she's town. Mursi is probably town, since, as scum, he'd have no reason to get like that with Petr.

3) lynch Mursi- he's scum. Sigrid is most definitely scum.

4) lynch Mursi- he's town. Sigrid could still well be scum (see 1)

Sigrid is the better choice, statistically. Add to that the fact that Sigrid has been incredibly quiet. Sounds like someone willing to sit back and let others fight while she gets ignored in the kerfluffel.

Before we start accusing people of saving scum, we need to catch scum first. We'll have the votes to lead us back after for the rest.

[Bob]

The scenarios I have are these:

1) lynch Sigrid- she's scum. Mursi might be scum trying to save her, but any of the rest of Petr's voters could have been instead.

2) lynch Sigrid- she's town. Mursi is probably town, since, as scum, he'd have no reason to get like that with Petr.

3) lynch Mursi- he's scum. Sigrid is most definitely scum.

4) lynch Mursi- he's town. Sigrid could still well be scum (see 1)

Sigrid is the better choice, statistically. Add to that the fact that Sigrid has been incredibly quiet. Sounds like someone willing to sit back and let others fight while she gets ignored in the kerfluffel.

I'm willing to vote for Sigrid again. She's not helping herself by not talking again today. At least a reaction to last night, Sigrid? How about a wave or a nod, to let us know you're still here. Maybe you're taking the whole "vow of silence" thing too seriously.

I was trying to come up with a theory as to the death of Tumi. At first I was thinking something like a host kill, but I couldn't see anything that Tumi did wrong. Tumi also didn't vote for Petr, he voted for Sigrid, so that rules out a vengeful spirit. Am I just an idiot? Am I missing something? Please tell me if I am.

[jimmynick]

I was trying to come up with a theory as to the death of Tumi. At first I was thinking something like a host kill, but I couldn't see anything that Tumi did wrong. Tumi also didn't vote for Petr, he voted for Sigrid, so that rules out a vengeful spirit. Am I just an idiot? Am I missing something? Please tell me if I am.

A Vengeful player is a one that, when lynched, is awarded the ability to kill any other player as they die.

Italics added.

[Rick]

I thought Sigrid had unusually sheepish votes. Jumping on and off the Mist vote in an unconvincing way. It might be stupid, but it can also be scummy.

I still have a hard time believing a scum team would have allowed her to act that way, unless she didn't consult them at all or they had already given up on her.

Having data to see for yourself or letting individual to relate the data and convert it to useful information. Which will be more appropriate? An useless input is equate to putting forth an all talk no action individual, basically a drama king/queen. That does not help directly to the overall situation but it does add much fun into it. You blatantly assumed that I am speculating, is because I merely re-defined. How will one constitute pointless observation, so you will rather I shut my trap and don't add anything concrete. I will love to see others coming up forth to share their direct findings, isn't it that more of concrete than subtle? Your high handed attitude simply ought to be restrain.

We catch the Servants by talking, putting a little pressure on people, positing explanations and gauging people's reactions to them. As others have pointed out, so far you're just stating the obvious. For the record: There were two blade kills on most nights the last time we were in this hall and neither of them were the vigilante. But I'm not going to read anything into the MOs at this point, because we all know Loki likes to mess with our minds. Yet you'd rather talk about the "concrete" information we have. I don't see the MOs as anything concrete at all, but since you seem to think so, what's the conclusion you come to based on your analysis?

The scenarios I have are these:

Don't forget that if Sigrid's a Servant, there may have been people on her bandwagon trying to bus her relatively early when her lynch seemed likely. That would make the "late switchers" suspicious to me. If she's Einherjar, it's much harder to draw any conclusions from the vote as the Servants were likely just trying to blend in and let us decide if we were going to get someone lynched or not. As has been pointed out already, there was a lot to be gained from a no lynch on day 1 as well.

[MagPiesRUs]

You may now vote. With 17 players remaining, 9 votes are required to convict. 48 hours remain in the day.

[Hinckley]

After taking a look at Jarni's posts, I realize the Kolgrima was suspicious around the rune-book-note-taking-error over if he was hesitant or not to vote for Mist or Naemr. There wasn't much else. I had in my rune-book that this post pinged me:

Granted, you did research afterwards, but why did you immediately assume the vengeful role is a scum thingy?

I'm attempting to rationalise how Petr could have been vengeful scum, otherwise we screwed up. In the post Canute linked to, Petr did say it was peculiar that Tumi hadn't voted for him but he did, on the other hand, say that Kolgrima and Patrekr were the most suspicious...

Sigrid, pass the mead, will you?

But I didn't write down why and it doesn't ping me now. Perhaps I thought only Scum drink mead? I think it was because I was reading the quote he referenced a different way, so that's not a valid suspicion now since we cleared it up.

So, I re-read what Kolgrima told me by PM. I think I mistook her meaning. She seems to have been telling me that if I was Scum then she would suspect Jarni as well, not that she found him suspicious in general.

Then Patrekr pointed out by PM that Jarni uses asterisk for emphasis in this post:

I have been around, but I didn't feel a need to respond because I have transparently *not* been twisting your words. But since you asked:

Which could be an indication that he's in the habit of emphasizing with asterisks as you would on a writeboard. It's not damning but it's worth noting.

To be clear, I don't find Jarni very suspicious...at the moment.

[Hinckley]

I'm surprised at how little conversation there has been. There are five dead Einherjar in one day. We're not going to catch those Servants by sitting around. Participate, people. Don't give the Scum anywhere to hide.

No idea if Sigrid is scum or not, she hasn't said anything really.

Classic.

Yes, it's hard to get a read on people who don't talk...

I will say though that I am now suspicious of Sorta Carrotface for a few reasons; first, this morning her first words were "kill Mursi, kill Mursi"--and that's it. She had no reaction to the deaths of three Einherjars--whatsoever. Rather than see or even comment at all on what happened, she immediatly starts trying to form a lynch mob against Cheif Mursi. And secondly, her reasons for wanting Mursi dead seem ot be based only on a vendetta; and nothing else. She's very intent on getting Mursi lynched, but her basis for her claims are non-existant.

Being harsh and not expressing horror at the night deaths are not scum tells.

I'm here. Just haven't had anything worthwhile to say. Would you prefer I come in with the obligatory "Oh crap, can't believe Petr was Town! Oh man, that sucks we're down 5 Townies" just to look like I'm helpful?

Here's an idea. Comment on all the day's activity. Weigh in. Float theories, mention suspects, tell us who you're suspicious of. Play the game.

I'm starting to worry Wilheim has a case of the restating syndrome, where he just lets us know what we know, rather than come to any conclusions.

For the vote today, I am leaning back to Sigrid. I've talked a little with Mursi, and while I'm not feeling 100% safe about him, I do think there were some legitimate misunderstandings in our communications.

The scenarios I have are these:

1) lynch Sigrid- she's scum. Mursi might be scum trying to save her, but any of the rest of Petr's voters could have been instead.

2) lynch Sigrid- she's town. Mursi is probably town, since, as scum, he'd have no reason to get like that with Petr.

3) lynch Mursi- he's scum. Sigrid is most definitely scum.

4) lynch Mursi- he's town. Sigrid could still well be scum (see 1)

Sigrid is the better choice, statistically. Add to that the fact that Sigrid has been incredibly quiet. Sounds like someone willing to sit back and let others fight while she gets ignored in the kerfluffel.

Before we start accusing people of saving scum, we need to catch scum first. We'll have the votes to lead us back after for the rest.

I'd like to strongly suggest people not voting for, say, the top three (Mist, Petr, or Sigrid) unvote and vote for one of those three, or vote if you haven't in the first place. It would lead us to a lynch, and would give us more to work with later in the game. Being a single voter in a situation like this is akin to throwing your vote away, and shows you are afraid to show a real opinion in this deathly serious matter.

You're accusing Mursi of trying to steer the vote while you blatantly lay out voting plans for us. What happened to your suspicion of Lefsi? Is Comic Sans a Scum tell? Snotra, same question for you.

[def]

You're accusing Mursi of trying to steer the vote while you blatantly lay out voting plans for us. What happened to your suspicion of Lefsi? Is Comic Sans a Scum tell? Snotra, same question for you.

I have no clue what you're talking about. Let's recap what happened:

Day one - much of the town is not saying much, and either not voting or throwing votes away at someone nobody else is going to vote for. I urge people to focus votes on the top three vote-getters. Are you accusing me of making sure the people under the most pressure got more pressure? What was wrong with that? Did you have a better course of action? Are you offering one today?

Day two - I have concerns about the vote, and Mursi and Sigrid's place in it. I propose some conclusions we could make from either lynch. It's not a voting plan, unless people agree. But it was one idea. One of the reasons to bring things up is to get people's opinions on things. So far, it seems that everybody except Snotra and Mursi couldn't care less. It's turning me off being active when fourteen other players can't be bothered to have an opinion. What do you think about Sigrid and Mursi? You are the famous Helga. Since when do you not weigh in on every little thing? The only person that seems to be putting in heavy analysis is Wary.

Lefsi, I don't know. I have come to realise that he doesn't know what he's doing. Doesn't make him town, but puts him in that limbo zone of "really hard to make a call about," that often plagues these situations. I really don't know, but I'd be willing to put a vote there, depending on.

Don't care about comic sans. Maybe someone else can solve that for you.

Four hours into the voting, and the thread has died

Vote: Sigrid (Sisco)

[Scubacarrot]

Vote: Sigrid (Sisco)

I'm okay with this.

Is Comic Sans a Scum tell? Snotra, same question for you.

Abso-bloody-lutely.

Was that serious, Helga? Really?

[def]

Does anyone see an elephant in the room?

[Hinckley]

Abso-bloody-lutely.

Was that serious, Helga? Really?

Of course not. I'm asking what happened to your suspicion of Lefsi.

[Scubacarrot]

When did I suspect Lefsi?

Oooooh. You mean redshirt. Hold up.

Right. So what happened was I called him out one suspicious phrase. His response... Don't know, could be a scum response, honestly. He also tried buddying up to me in private, which is interesting, with phrases like, make it clear I am town so we can work together, or something along those lines.

So, it's there, but I don't think it has priority of sorting the Sigrid and Mursi issue. If I was a vig, I would kill him at night.

[CorneliusMurdock]

While I appreciate the fact that a Sigrid lynch has the potential to clear my name, I find Wilhalm more suspicious right now than Sigrid.

His statement can essentially be reduced to saying nothing. Some called for him to be more active and this seems like he's trying to appear that way. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt yesterday but he jus doesn't seem like his loyal self in that statement.

So while lynching Sigrid might clear me, I have to think of us as a whole first. And since I think it is much more likely to get us a scum I will:

Vote: Wilhalm Bloodaxe (WhiteFang)

[Scubacarrot]

Yesterday one of the reasons for not voting for Sigrid was that you felt that lynch would not tell us anything about anyone else according to you. What do you think a lynch of Wilhalm would do in that respect, NoMursi?

[CorneliusMurdock]

I will say, though, that Sigrid should speak up today. If we can get such an illumaniting view of Wilhalm with a little activity, we should be able to get something from her today if she puts in a little effort. I'm of the opinion that if someone can't bother to participate in the slightest, Odin might as well strike them down now. Then they can spend all eternity having no fun ever again since they spoil ours.

I think it will tell us that he's scum, Snotra. I've known Wilhalm a while, I don't think he's loyal this time around.

[Scubacarrot]

On rereading it, I find Redshirt's private message to me very suspicious, check this out.

Scuba-

I am messaging you because after re-reading Day 1, and what happened last night, I feel strongly that you are town. Looking at comments and voting, I have some feelings about scum that I would like to discuss. Just for starters, WBD is at the top of my scum list. I'm going to message one other that I also feel strongly about being town and want to keep some dialog going as I think I can be of some help. I know that I didn't act the towniest yesterday, and apologize for that, but I'm most definitely town.

LegoDad

"I know that I didn't act the towniest yesterday"

Uhm.

I think it will tell us that he's scum, Snotra. I've known Wilhalm a while, I don't think he's loyal this time around.

Hm. What I think is that you are hoping that Sigrid will not be lynched, and can generate momentum in another direction, prolonging your capture. But that's just me. Wilhalm looks to me personally to be doing what he always does.