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Posted

I'm kind of intrigued by some of the sets I've seen recently (especially the Chima figures which combine 2-into-1), but for the most part the action figures look kind of generic to me. The lower-end sets (piece-wise) use what seems like the same armor pieces and the same basic structure, just maybe a different color here and there. This makes a lot of the sets look (to my uncultured, ignorant eyes) very similar. What if you wanted to make your own designs? What if you didn't want to just replace one piece of leg armor with another? Could you build your own leg armor and still have the figure be poseable? Even the smallest pieces seem too large to connect together very easily, unless you want to make a humongous figure. And even then I'm not sure how they would go together, looks like most clip onto arms or legs at one specific point and that's it. Most figures seem very sparse, very skeletal.

Some of the larger figures do look pretty cool, like Mr. Witch Doctor over here: http://www.bricklink...m.asp?S=44011-1. But he seems to be on one extreme end of the spectrum, and at the other we have simple, skeletal frames. Is there a middle-ground somewhere?

I'm curious as to other people's opinions on what makes these types of sets so appealing.

Posted

Well, they do not call this Ultrabuild for nothing. So yes, you are not mistaken: all recent Action Figure sets share the same system that allows to snap armor pieces to a balljointed skeleton. And to the most part it's Lego's chase for simplicity that makes those builds look generic. It's up to builder however to make something viable and appealing out of this Ultrabuild system. I see you have Flickr. I will give you some links where you can find something I consider to be appealing Action Figure designs. To be more specific, it's groups where I post my stuff. =)

I must warn you thought that I cannot guarantee that there will be only high-quality mocs.

Bionicle without Bionicle - non-human Bionicle builds

Bionicle and Hero Factory

Lego Fusion - MOCs that combine Bionicle, Hero Factory and System pieces

To conclude what I'm saying: recent sets are not up to the task to be appealing for the most part (although personally I liked Chi Worriz and Core Hunter), but past sets (Hero Factory 1.0 for example) were nice in design, but really limited in matter of poseability. The Lego Group cannot touch the golden middle, alas.

Posted (edited)

I don't see what the problem is. The new system allows for many, easy variations on the same basic theme; you can reuse old parts without them looking out of place, which brings me to BIONICLE's faults. In Bionicle, each piece was very specialized, so most pieces could only be used for one set or wave of sets.

I do, however, agree that it is much easier to build unique large builds than small ones. However, the excellent 6228 Thornraxx shows how this can be done quite easily, and the new Kaiju Queen (summer 2014) provides an even better example. As a matter of fact, all 2014 sets are providing more and more of the pieces needed for complex building, namely the Waspix connector, the Drilldozer connector, the Stormer XL connector and the two sizes of two-sided cup bones.

Compared to system sets, HF's building system needs time to build up an arsenal of molds; it's still very much in it's 2x4 brick phase, and it's designers have yet to settle on a single, effective usage.

Edited by DraikNova
Posted

Constraction is a different form of building than traditional Lego. Whereas with standard Lego you largely use existing figs and make environments and vehicles for them, in constraction you build characters themselves.

The CCBS (Character and Creature Building System, the system used for Hero Factory and Chima) allows for varying levels of complexity. It's true that many of the sets, especially the smaller heroes, largely use similar parts on similar skeletons. But even that offers plenty of options—as an example, a single "bone" piece allows any given "shell" piece to connect in four different orientations (or eight if you count opposite connections). Add in the wide range of different shells and shell details (parts that attach over the standard shells), and you can create all sorts of unique figure designs even at a small scale.

At a larger scale, even more opportunities are opened up. You have the option of either using a Technic-intensive build, like Witch Doctor, or working primarily with the CCBS (which can be more difficult, since most basic torso beams are optimized for standard-scale figures, but still offers plenty of unique options). Plenty of parts exist for integrating ball joint parts with Technic connections for larger or more complex figures. And don't limit yourself to just humanoid figures, either; a unique design goes a long way.

The CCBS is in many ways easier than earlier Bionicle parts to integrate cleanly and smoothly with System builds, as well. The smooth aesthetic of basic Hero Factory shells works well with brick-built mechs or similar models, and shell detail parts attach using 3.2 mm bar connections—the same size connection as minifig accessories.

Posted

It may seem like a lot of the sets use the same pieces, but that's sort of the point. Think of the Hero Factory shells and beams as the basic bricks and plates of action figure building. They come in a lot of sizes and can be put together at a number of different angles, but the attachment style and overall texture is about the same regardless of which parts you use.

Still, there's no shortage of ways to make a model unique in design. For instance, there are detail pieces like this and this that let you add different shapes or textures to a basic shell. Also, beams can be put together in any number of ways to create a unique skeleton underneath a model's armor.

This model is one of my most recent MOCs, built almost entirely with the Hero Factory building system. Here are two more models of mine. And here's a MOC created by Christoffer Raundahl, the lead BIONICLE set designer and one of the inventors of this building system.

As for smaller models, here's a model my twin brother built. And here's one of mine. Neither of these was made by "just swapping armor pieces". Doesn't mean they were incredibly complex to design, but that could be said of most small models no matter what building system they're based on.

And another thing — humanoid models at a small scale will usually be based on a similar basic skeleton. But if you want a non-humanoid model, changing up the skeleton is practically a necessity. This MOC of mine is a non-humanoid mech, so naturally it has a non-humanoid skeleton. As far as sets are concerned, this is where you start to see a lot of real creativity. Consider Thornraxx, Dragon Bolt, or any number of this year's beast and machine sets, particularly those due for a summer release. Seems like a no-brainer when you think about it — a basic humanoid skeleton is ideal for basic humanoid models, and when you move away from that a greater level of variety comes naturally.

Posted

Another way of looking at it: how many options do you have with a minifig? Switching out the head, helmet/hair/similar, armor, torso, legs and if you're slightly more of a modifier, the arms and hands as well. Action figures allow you to do all that, but even before that, you can make the individual components, modifying them to your own specifications.

Even more of an increase happens when you consider the usual options on standard-sized non-humanoids. Minifig scale creatures usually lack articulation or even separate pieces (with exception of the massive roast turkey pieces), whilst with action figures you can decide to make complete variations on the basic idea, such as bulky, slim, fat, thin, tall, short, hunch-backed or even given a variety of disfigurations.

If you want to see why the HF system is better suited to large-scale MOCs, I've got several projects in the works that I hope will demonstrate that.

Posted

Bionicle without Bionicle - non-human Bionicle builds

Bionicle and Hero Factory

Lego Fusion - MOCs that combine Bionicle, Hero Factory and System pieces

Wow, there's a lot of really cool stuff in there, thanks for sharing! I really like a lot of those sets from the Lego Fusion group, including this guy: http://www.flickr.co...ol-1147625@N20/

Compared to system sets, HF's building system needs time to build up an arsenal of molds; it's still very much in it's 2x4 brick phase, and it's designers have yet to settle on a single, effective usage.

That's a good way to put it. There wasn't always the crazy amount of pieces in system Lego sets, and the action figures have only been around for a short while, right (a few years, maybe)? The Bionicle sets I remember glancing at briefly, thinking they were too weird, and moving on. But the Hero Factory stuff seems more reusable, moving toward that "golden middle" that -N13OS- mentioned.

The CCBS is in many ways easier than earlier Bionicle parts to integrate cleanly and smoothly with System builds, as well. The smooth aesthetic of basic Hero Factory shells works well with brick-built mechs or similar models, and shell detail parts attach using 3.2 mm bar connections—the same size connection as minifig accessories.

Ah, so a bar will fit into those little holes on the armor pieces. That could open up all sorts of possibilities. I like mechs, and part of why I started looking more at the action figures was that they seemed to have a lot of ball and joint pieces for that, much more so than most regular system sets.

It may seem like a lot of the sets use the same pieces, but that's sort of the point. Think of the Hero Factory shells and beams as the basic bricks and plates of action figure building. They come in a lot of sizes and can be put together at a number of different angles, but the attachment style and overall texture is about the same regardless of which parts you use.

...

This model is one of my most recent MOCs, built almost entirely with the Hero Factory building system. Here are two more models of mine. And here's a MOC created by Christoffer Raundahl, the lead BIONICLE set designer and one of the inventors of this building system.

That's a good way to explain it, as just an action-figure system. I think maybe was comparing the sets to action figures I've seen over the years that are incredibly detailed, but incapable of being modded (short of damaging the figures). Can't exactly take a Batman figure and give him an arm from Iron Man, etc. That Caitlyn Gauss XL MOC of yours is killer! Looks very armored up and solid!

Thanks for the insights everyone. I think I'll take a closer look at some of these sets, maybe pick up a pair of the Chima figures and see how I like them.

Posted

Bionicle has been around since 2001; 2000 or even 1999 (according to rumors) in some countries. Hero Factory's building system has been around since 2011, and most of the Bionicle pieces had to be abandoned, with the exception of the basic hand part and the Piraka claws.

Here's my recommendation for a good starting set: Jaw Beast. Just the basic parts, but it gives you a good idea of what territory HF's moving into.

Evo Walker has similar features, but as a stand-alone set it's design is not too interesting. Excellent if you want to start building larger-scale stuff though, as it comes with the four most useful parts for making complex structures, all for a cheap price.

Posted

Bionicle has been around since 2001; 2000 or even 1999 (according to rumors) in some countries. Hero Factory's building system has been around since 2011, and most of the Bionicle pieces had to be abandoned, with the exception of the basic hand part and the Piraka claws.

Here's my recommendation for a good starting set: Jaw Beast. Just the basic parts, but it gives you a good idea of what territory HF's moving into.

Evo Walker has similar features, but as a stand-alone set it's design is not too interesting. Excellent if you want to start building larger-scale stuff though, as it comes with the four most useful parts for making complex structures, all for a cheap price.

I did like the look of Jaw Beast, and the Flying Beast figure as well. Think I'll pick them up whenever they come out here in the U.S. Question for you: What are the four most useful parts that you mention? Right now they're still kind of a blur of ball/socket pieces, with the occasional fist or claw thrown in.

I ended up getting some Chima figures (Eris and Laval) and I was really impressed with them! There's a lot of flexibility in them, very poseable. The combination of the two is a nice bonus, and does a good job demonstrating how to build figures with a bit more bulk. Liked them so much, I got Worriz, Cragger and Razar (don't like Gorzan very much, though his weapon is cool). And a Rocka. And a Frost Beast... aww crap, I think I'm in trouble.

Posted

I did like the look of Jaw Beast, and the Flying Beast figure as well. Think I'll pick them up whenever they come out here in the U.S. Question for you: What are the four most useful parts that you mention? Right now they're still kind of a blur of ball/socket pieces, with the occasional fist or claw thrown in.

I ended up getting some Chima figures (Eris and Laval) and I was really impressed with them! There's a lot of flexibility in them, very poseable. The combination of the two is a nice bonus, and does a good job demonstrating how to build figures with a bit more bulk. Liked them so much, I got Worriz, Cragger and Razar (don't like Gorzan very much, though his weapon is cool). And a Rocka. And a Frost Beast... aww crap, I think I'm in trouble.

The most useful parts (in my opinion) are the ones that most effectively allow you to connect beams and shells in to larger constructions in unique ways.

98590: The most compact torso piece. Loads of attachment points over a small area. With multiples and the requisite bone pieces, you can create larger or more unique torso designs.

98577: The most compact way to securely attach a shell to a Technic beam of any sort.

90634: Great for attaching additional beams, either to add limbs or to fill out the shape of a larger torso construction.

90630: Another part that's great for attaching additional beams to torsos or limbs.

Bones and shells are of course necessary to use these parts to their maximum potential, but those are more common in sets. Pick sets with the sorts of colors you want to use, and take note of which sets have longer or shorter limbs so as to get the kind of beams and shells you need. Keep an eye out for 90622 in particular, as it's great for attaching multiple torso beams together.

Posted (edited)

I was talking about four pieces, usually referred to as "the Drilldozer connector", "the Stormer connector" and the two double-sided cup pieces. All of them can be found in the Evo Walker.

Edited by DraikNova
Posted (edited)

This piece is also most excellent when building compact figures with good posability. The ball with axle hole also allows you to connect the shells or limbs better, but using more TECHNIC-y pieces like this draw the builds a bit further from the CCBS, but it is done in the TLC's sets too. I suggest to get loads of those, I think I have something like 150 and I'm always running short of them; I'm getting 300 more the next summer. If you are planning to use more TECHNIC/Bionicle stuff in the builds, I would also recommend the ol' good Slizer foot, as it has a smooth shape combatible with HF shells, a great array of connection points and it comes in nice variety in colors. They are quite cheap, too.

EDIT: Thanks DraikNova, should be working now.

Edited by pig

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