Okay, my cousin gave me one, (minifig imperial), and I've got questions:

Is it coincidence that they very closely resemble American and British soldiers from the 18th and early 19th centuries?

What's the difference between the blue and red?

What is their connection with the pirates, seeing as they are part of the pirates theme?

Why is there a pirate in the gunbay of the flagship, and in loads of other places owned by Imperials?

What do they have to do with islanders?

Thanks!

Okay, my cousin gave me one, (minifig imperial), and I've got questions:

Is it coincidence that they very closely resemble American and British soldiers from the 18th and early 19th centuries?

No. No coincidence this is very intentional in regards to the British 16-19th century uniform, but I always thought the American uniform was depicted more accurately in the Western theme.

What's the difference between the blue and red?

The basic answer: one has a blue uniform and one has a red uniform. The blue coats were the original soldiers released at the beginning of the Pirate theme in 1989. The red coats didn't come along until 1992 and phased the blue coats out over the next couple of years.

There has been many debates in this forum as to the affiliation of the red and blue. Some (like me) say they're both British, the blue being the naval forces while the red are the infantry or marines wihich is quite historically accurate. Others say the blue coats are French, although I disagree as the blue coat uniform resembles the 16th century British Naval uniform more than it does the French uniform of the same time.

To see what I mean visit the Imperial Guards: Bluecoat and redcoat uniforms thread.

I'm going to answer the other questions later due to time constraints, but anyone else can free free to!

What is their connection with the pirates, seeing as they are part of the pirates theme?

The soldiers are the pirates' enemies - blue soldiers, red soldiers, and the Imperial Armada which was introduced afterwards. Somehow I don't feel like saying that they are "the good guys" - after all nobody said all those soldier factions are each other's friends - they may be all at war and in this case it would be hard to tell which of them are the good guys. But pirates are definitely the bad guys.

Why is there a pirate in the gunbay of the flagship, and in loads of other places owned by Imperials?

Not all sailors in striped shirts are pirates! He may just be a normal sailor, a civilian that is. Or in some cases Lego added pirates (identified by Jolly Roger emblems) to Imperial sets to increase their playability I guess. You can imagine they are attacking the soldiers, or sneaking around, or are imprisoned by the soldiers - it's all up to you.

What do they have to do with islanders?

All factions during their travels visit many islands and meet their natives. What are their relationships - it's up to you once again. The pirates can steal from them or make an alliance with them to fight the soldiers, the soldiers can be the islanders' friends or may want to catch them as slaves (which would be very bad behaviour but they did that back in the old days) - giving the islanders the reason to be allied with pirates... There are really no strict rules.

Okay, thanks. I'll post pictures of my first pirate "MOC", a transportable cannon and a red coat soon.

Well I would have answered but all your problems have been solved. But if you do need more info, just ask me im always around somewhere :D

I wouldn't say we're done with answering these questions yet. Primarily because The LEGO Company left these details to interpretation so therefore there is no wrong or right answer. Secondly, because there are different versions of the Pirate LEGO universe, for example the story varies in the catalogue depending upon the country it was released in, or the LadyBird Book series tells a slightly different story to the comic book series.

So if anyone has different answers to Mr Mahkimetru's questions, then by all means share them!

i always felt that the change from the imperial blue coats to the red coats was purely based on the change that the pirates made from a color theme of red to black. my theory is that is was completely a merchandising move, and had nothing to do with french, english, naval, or army statistics. it just doesn't make since that LEGO would write such story/specs into the theme. its just too inconsistent with the rest of there decisions.

in 1989, when the pirate theme was released, the pirates color was red, and the imperials color was blue. yes, the pirates flag was black and white (jolly roger), but the sails on the BSB where red, and all rowboats with sails had red/white striped pattern, and all imperial boats had blue/white striped pattern.

well, somewhere along the line LEGO decided to change the color of the pirates from red to black. i think it mainly had to do with the desire to release another BIG pirate ship... when LEGO went to design what is now the SES, every attempt to make another big ship with the same red/white stripped pattern (that was consistent with pirates) looked too much like the BSB. also, LEGO was obviously looking to improve on the big pirate ship concept, and black could have been a move that made it look better, by being more pirate-esque or evil.

so, when LEGO decided to change the pirate color to black, that left a combination of black (pirates) vs. blue (imperials). those two colors are a very week choice from a merchandising point of view. black is far to powerful, and consequently, the imperial sets would seam meek on the shelves next to a SES. the logical change would be to make the imperials red. red is one of the two most eye-catching colors (next to yellow, which LEGO also employed, most system boxes at the time were solid yellow on all the sides of the box). so while the pirates moved from red to black, from a merchandising perspective, LEGO needed to keep the color present somewhere, and thus moved red to the imperials.

that left them with a black/red combination, a great improvement from a red/blue combination.

LEGO began to change over in 1992, when the red imperial color was introduced. then in 1993, the change was complete when the remaining red colored pirate sails sets were discontinued, and the SES was released.

there is only one set which objects this theory... and that is the imperial trading post 6277, which when released in 1992, featured a red colored pirate sail. this is the only set where both the pirates and the imperials colors are red. strange ???

in a nutshell, i believe that the red coats exist, simply because of the release of the SES.

Primarily because The LEGO Company left these details to interpretation so therefore there is no wrong or right answer.

that is what makes this all so fun, to ability make up your own stories !!! im so glad LEGO never released too much story. part of LEGO is the imagination. im pretty sure the company kept this in mind when designing an releasing information.

the blue being the naval forces while the red are the infantry or marines

how does this explination fit the imperial flagship 6271 ???

- brickminer

That's a very interesting theory Brick Miner... it makes a lot of sence!

God Bless,

Nathan

So if anyone has different answers to Mr Mahkimetru's questions, then by all means share them!

MAHKIMETRU?! *wacko*

Nah, silly typo.

Thanks for the answers all, I better understand Lego Pirates now!

Yes, silly typo indeed!

I'm still curious if anyone has any different interpretations to these questions so keep them coming - Brick Miner has done splendidly! I'm going to answer the remaining two questions when I get more time...

Arent those islanders suppose to be the indians which the spanish came and killed to get all their gold? well thats what hapepned in real history but may the lego factory wouldnt make their theme on such violence

They don't look all that much like Indians. More like plain old tropical islanders.

ya, they are based on south pacific islanders (tiki style), not central american islanders.

Oh, I thought when someone said Indians, they ment Native North Americans, not central, but the heck, that debate is over! :-P

ya, they are based on south pacific islanders (tiki style), not central american islanders.

It seems misplaced that The LEGO Company based the islander theme on Pacific Islander culture rather than that seen on the islands of the Caribbean. But maybe they had good reason for doing so, but this is something I do not know.

There is a "BUT" here...

The original use of the word "Tiki" is used as a noun for naming a carved wooden figure representing the first man - so it bascially means "first man". In Inca mythology the diety Apu Qun Tiqsi Wiraqutra was believed to be the creator of civilization. Tiqsi, pronounced the same as "Tiki" and it means foundation - the first man is also the founder...

They don't look all that much like Indians. More like plain old tropical islanders.

Have you seen a central America Indian in recent times? Here is a picture of some

Now can you say the islanders look nothing like them?

Apparently the Indigo Islanders bear a closer resembelence to South Pacific or "Tiki" style natives. Of course this is highly subjective and I tend to think they're just one type of islander leaving the possiblity that there could be other more "indian" resembling islanders (on other islands of course).

Hi all! I am currently in production of a ship called the Armageddon Last night I bought lots of things on bricklink for said ship. But I did not buy a crew, but I want the crew to either be Imperial Soldiers or Guards.

I know the Imperial Soldiers are blue and Imperial Guards are red, but could somebody explain the difference besides the colors? This has been eating me up inside! Would it be normal to have both soldiers and guards manning my future ship?

Thanks! :-$

I think that Imperial Guard's look better on ships, and the crew should be mostly made up of the guys with Tri-corne's and some Shako men as guards, and then a few of the admirals as officers.

I would say that the Imperial Soldiers (as sailors and some soldier) would be best for a ship.

In reality, they can be whatever you want them to be :capn: .

Really? I like the soldiers better. Hmmmm... The colour scheme of the ship is going to be black, dark blue, and some brown, of course. Do you think that the soliders would match better since they are blue?

I actually bought a whole bunch of plain black bicorne hats, an admiral hat and about 18 yellow plumes! I haven't decided if I should use the bicornes (which I like better) or the tricornes. The problem is that those imperial guards/soldiers figs on bricklink are kind-a pricy if I want to buy a whole buch. Anyone here want to sell me some? ;-)

There are a couple of thread on this already you may want to read:

Imperial Guards: Bluecoat and redcoat uniforms

Imperial Guards

If one of those threads suffices your need maybe we could merge this one with the most appropriate thread. I don't think we need a third thread on this topic.

I'm not sure what's the difference in the LEGO theme. I think LEGO made them to have a change.

You can use the blue men for soldiers, but also for officers. Like a French Napoleonic soldier or a high ranking officer on a ship. If I combine the two on a ship, the Blue ones are officers and other big shots. The Red ones get high hats or shakos, I believe they are called marines.

That's how it is in Master & Commander, and that movie was based on facts.

Mr Tiber

Perhaps this should become a poll

"Which do you like better,Imperial guards or Imperial Soldiers"

Just a little idea there to open up disscusion

I would also like to see what other members think about them

I'm voting for the French(imperial soldiers)

Hehe the poll hasn't even started and I'm already voting :-P

Piranha

Good poll idea! *y*