yumiyoshi Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 <One shot. Lucky one shot. Lucky one shot on the Godfather. Lucky one shot on the Godfather after he'd just been investigated! ((Expletive deleted!))> So it was luck for you killing someone that was a officialy a town...
Chromeknight Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 So it was luck for you killing someone that was a officialy a town... Regarding Franklin. I meant that from the point of view of the scum, at that time, we didn't think there was a lot of reason to suspect Franklin, and since he was going to be investigated, that it was unlikely someone would target him. As it was, there was reason to suspect, and the investigation wasn't reason to hold off. If you're talking about something else, feel free to clarify!
Bricksandparts Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 I lost? Oh well. It was a good game though, I felt sure we'd win though.
Tachyon Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Yes. Town won. I wish that i could have lived longer to protect voltanna the cop. Oh well it was a great job.
def Posted December 1, 2011 Author Posted December 1, 2011 Voltana/Zam. I got the sense that your friendship was a little metagamey... We need to accept that as part of the game. By your third game here, you will 'know' some other players, and when you start PM'ing in a game, they will be the ones you bother with first. It's a force of habit. You'll also be able to 'read' them a lot better than new players. You'll see a lot of EB'ers complain about meta-gaming, and not only is it annoying (not aimed at you, but at the umpteenth time I heard it in a game I played, which is every one), it is impossible to avoid. The scum will usually target the player they think is the best day one. There is no advantage to pulling a name out of a hat. There is no brain-wipe to help you start fresh each game. So no worries, and no complaints of meta-gaming If she showed her role info to another, that would be a problem....
Darkdragon Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 That was a good game. I was so confused on the last day, should have gone with my original thought and not let PMs sway my thinking. Anyway I'm glad we won and at least one person I suspected really was scum.
Chromeknight Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 We need to accept that as part of the game. By your third game here, you will 'know' some other players, and when you start PM'ing in a game, they will be the ones you bother with first. It's a force of habit. You'll also be able to 'read' them a lot better than new players. You'll see a lot of EB'ers complain about meta-gaming, and not only is it annoying (not aimed at you, but at the umpteenth time I heard it in a game I played, which is every one), it is impossible to avoid. The scum will usually target the player they think is the best day one. There is no advantage to pulling a name out of a hat. There is no brain-wipe to help you start fresh each game. So no worries, and no complaints of meta-gaming If she showed her role info to another, that would be a problem.... Oh.It wasn't a complaint at all. And I'm not worried about metagaming so much anyway, it's a double edged sword. In fact it makes things a tiny bit more predictable, which is all grist for the mill
Hinckley Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 Players, feel free to post your character roles, and any advice I specifically gave you that was useful. I gave a little bit of specific advice to players, so I hope it wasn't intrusive. def, can we post our Role PMs here, or should we wait?
Rumble Strike Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) Well done to the players, and some great sets as always def! What was the thinking behind the Witchbreed puzzle? To see if people would share their pieces and get some valuable information in return? Edited December 1, 2011 by Rumble Strike
Skipper Posted December 1, 2011 Posted December 1, 2011 First off, thanks for hosting Def! A great game, even if my playing was pretty cruddy, so I'm really looking forward to the advice. I screwed up entirely the first couple days, trusting a some scum behind the scenes and voting for the totally wrong people. I got my act together towards the end of the third day and figured out a strategy/who the scums were in PM, but by then I think everyone pretty much had it too. Still, I'm glad we won and I made it through to the end. My role PM: Hi You're Skip Pudding,The Man of Law (Skipper)- A successful lawyer commissioned by the king. He upholds justice in matters large and small and knows every statute of England’s law by heart. You are Town. You are vanilla town. You need to smoke out the scum with your strategy and smarts. Oh, and somewhere along the way, you found this: You may choose to share this or keep it to yourself. It's up to you.
Piratedave84 Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 FYI My role was scum goon, i guess it's the equivalent of vanilla townie. I was really floored when i saw that Fhomess had both been killed AND investigated on the same night, when I read the thread the next morning I actually choked on my coffee!!!! Also on the 3rd night when Zam was killed, a kill I took, and saw the SK I freaked out before I even read further, closed the browser (thinking I was dead) and only later did I realize I was still alive!!!!
Cecilie Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 That's what happened. I was just on the wrong end of it!Sorry Cecile (Cecilie), I was the one who called (and performed) the kill on you, I thought you might have been beginning to suspect me. I was right, and you'd passed on your suspicions to Carrots. Actually, at that point, I didn't suspect you. Not anymore than anyone else at least. I never fully trusted you (especially because you contacted me so damn early), but after I died, and I got to see that Biskie was indeed scum, I actually trusted you more, since you never flinched about having Biskie on the list of people for the SK to kill. I was pretty sure Wully would kill Biskie among those three, because (s)he was the one who seemed most useless to the town should (s)he not be scum (at least in my opinion), and that was one of Wully's kill-criterias (if he's unsure, pick the most quiet/useless one among the suspects). And I can't remember telling Carrots anything about suspecting you, he must have figured you out on his own . Btw, I knew Carrots was the doctor, because he trusted me enough to tell me . But then, when it became clear that you actually were scum, I was all "no way, he tricked me!". So I guess lesson learned for me, and good game to you . I think you actually did a really good job at hiding the fact you were scum, at least up until day 4 when it became more and more apparent that you were scum for every time you said something (at least that's what I felt looking down from the afterlife...)
def Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 Alright, now is the time everyone loves, getting their feedback I'm dividing this into four ranks. -Big pass -Pass -Undecided -Fail This is based on what I saw in thread, from what I could tell in the decisions and votes made behind the scenes, and the degree to which people continued to follow and pay attention to the game after they died. I am not all-seeing, so if you think I didn't give you credit for something, by all means, speak up scubacarrot - Pass I think you played well. There were some little things I would correct, mainly, claiming vanilla to Nihilous. I don't think there was any need to make a role claim, truthful or otherwise, to someone asking people stuff on day one. I'm assuming you revealed your role to Voltana after she made a cop statement in thread, which was safe enough, since she was unlikely to be lying, but hopefully you waited until after Wully basically confirmed her story. Darth Nihilous - Pass. This is a grudging pass, since you made what I would have to call a massive blunder on day one, but I think you get what went wrong, and you followed the game through somewhat. The blunders? Your day one strategy made zero sense, and all you ended up doing was nominating the doctor Then you revealed your role well before you were really in danger. Regrets, regrets. You've had two flame out games, and I don't hold it against you. I flamed out in my first game, and I'd like to think I'm pretty comfortable playing now. You seem interested, and I think if you build toward a strategy, rather than loudly throwing one out there, you can develop a good game. You were over-confident and aggressive here, and you need to feel things out. Don't treat hunches as fact darkdragon - Pass I think you did well enough in thread, but I think your behind the scenes game seemed iffy. The main reason was that Voltana cleared you as Town, and the obvious thing to me would to be to trust her and become part of her voting block. There is a chance that she was lying about clearing you, but it was unlikely. She had come out with a cop claim on day two. Scum would only do that if they knew for a fact that they had killed the cop night one. That is very very unlikely. So, I think you should have been in heavy, trusting communication from the moment she cleared you, and voting with her would have been your best play. Gingerwookie Fail You shouldn't be surprised by this. I realize you had some personal issues that took you away from the game. Real life is always going to be more important than an online game, I understand. All the same, 2-3 days off is fair, but you weren't all that much here before your personal thing came up. I would encourage you to try again, and put yourself into it as best possible volcanicpanik Pass You had some good points and bad points, and luckily it all worked out for the better. The problem was coming out in thread and saying you had been told by the cop a night results. In all my time playing mafia, this story has only been true once. Every other time, it was actually that person who had the role in question. With a little help, scum got pretty confused, but you were definitely the planned night kill after that reveal. After that, you did well, sharing info with just the right people, it seems. Overall, well done! Chromeknight Big pass I think you took the advice I gave at the start of the game to heart, and I was very impressed at the tightrope act you pulled off. As I said to the scum somewhere, I hate the responsibility of being scum, where PM'ing people seems like an invitation to be investigated. Whereas a townie has no worries and can snoop with whoever they like. So, you need to PM enough to be in the loop, but not so much that you become a target. But, at the same time, there were enough floater townies that they would take the heat before you would. I really meant that day one advice to everyone: active townies are terrifying for town. If everyone who was town was active, the scum have nowhere to hide. You played a bold game, and lo and behold, you were the final scum taken out. Let that be a lesson to all scum in the future. Seriously. (Take a look at Gotham Mafia where we are in the process of picking off the last useless players, all scum. The only time being lazy pays off is when the town is lazy) zakura Big pass You bluffed that you were the cop even though it put your life on the line. You realized this was a team game. Voltana had a strong value to the team and you sacrificed yourself for her. This is amazing play This was the most true mafia play of the entire game, in my opinion. One player died, and the cop survived to keep clearing town. Skipper Undecided You survived, but in mafia, surviving is often not a complement. You didn't do so much. In the last day, I feel you picked up and start doing more, communicating with people. But, I think you fell into a vanilla hole, where you figured you didn't know anything and couldn't do anything, so you sat on the sidelines. Please play again, and get excited about it. Wuntin Big pass You really made lemonade out of lemons. I think you expected to be lynched day two (and you should have!), but I asked you to fight, you did, and you were able to win! Even though you killed a townie, even after you'd targeted a townie night three. Really, you were obligated to kill each night, and more likely to kill town than scum, but you managed to get town to let you live. A really impressive feat. I'd like to see you pull that off in an experienced game. People tend to hate independent factions and will just take them out ASAP. Like Chrome Knight, I think you really took the advice I gave you to heart, and it showed in your play. Great job! Piratedave Pass You were active enough, but you got put on that "under the radar" list that some townies did. If you were more active, you would have had a better support base as the lynch came around to you. I also thought your scrambling on Day Four was a little "scum flail," though you did convince Darkdragon One other, major point: when you were going for the fake doctor role claim, you informed Chrome Knight on the Writeboard, but you didn't consult him. I was home at the time, and was about to tell you to wait for him, but then decided not to intervene, mafia school or not. You really should. As scum, I have gone out on my own, but usually, I post about it, then wait four or five hours to see who's around. Time is of the essence, but being a cowboy can hurt your team. So, I'd be timely, within consideration. A case converse to that is when townies are PM'ing scum. It looks bad to read a message and not reply, and in that case, just make a banal excuse, like, I'm at work on my cellphone, I'll reply when I get home... Then do it! Yumiyoshi Pass You really helped win the game. fhomess would have been cleared if not for you, and the game would have been far longer. I hate having a vig role, because it's a lot of stress, but you did the absolute best you could have done with it The reason this is not a Big Pass is because of the rest of your game. I think you had a hard time building alliances, to the point that even after an uncontested vig claim, people were doubting you. In order to play stronger, you need to do a little more communicating with people in a trustful way. After your vig kill, you could have PM'ed Voltana to try working with her. As the claim to the cop, she was the one town should have been working toward. Bricksandparts Fail I don't think you played bad per se, but you had by far the least communication with your teammates. Not much theorizing, not much strategizing. You were taken out for being in that "Under the radar" crowd, I think, and it directly relates to your level of play. Please try again, and boost your participation. Flare Undecided You were taken out early for little reason (often a great scum strategy; baffle the town). But I have little to judge your play on, not in the game, and not in the afterlife Writeboard. The Customizer Undecided Much like Flare, there is little to grade you on. You spoke a little in the Afterlife, but it was a very casual thing for you. fhomess Pass You seemed genuinely involved. I wonder if your activity in thread outweighed your behind the scenes to the extent that you were worth being investigated and vig-killed. But you showed a certain passion toward the game, so I can award you a solid pass. Cecilie Pass You were killed for being logical. The scum disliked you from day one, and that is the biggest compliment you could have. You didn't quite make that inner-circle of town, those who voted together on the last day, but I'm sure you would have if you survived. halomaster96 Fail I sent you a PM asking you to participate more. You were lynched for being lazy in thread. After dying, you showed no interest in the game. I'd welcome you to play again, but I'd like you to genuinely consider if this is the type of game you find interesting. If so, please try again Thank you all, this write up has consumed a fair amount of time Personally, I've been playing mafia games for just a few years now, but I find them really stimulating. At their heart, there's a lot to do with reading people. It makes games with more "vanilla" players much more stimulating than just relying on night results. I really think the scum who were killed in this game, without use of the cop, were much more thrilling than the night result on Wully. They were killed through deduction! If you'll allow me to get pretentious for a moment, this is really something that you can't buy; a video game, a TV show, whatever, they aren't nearly as involving as your personal success in a human game. For those that were new, I hope this whetted your appetite, and for those on there second game, I look forward to killing you in a future game
Scubacarrot Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks for the feedback, I had fun as for my first mafia game :) As to response for your questions: I actually made it way too complicated for myself, on day two, I had told Volcanicpanik that I actually was in contact with the doctor, it was only on day three that I revealed it was me. In retrospective, I would not have contacted the Wife of Darth, it seemed logical at the time, but as it turns out, plans like this do not actually work all that well (sorry Wife of Darth for indirectly getting you killed :/ ).
Tachyon Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Wow that was a rather fun game. Good job of hosting the game Def. Thanks for the feedback
def Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 Wow that was a rather fun game. Good job of hosting the game Def. Thanks for the feedback I was really worried you would be the 'crash and burn' player in this game, so I was really pleasantly surprised. I don't know what approach you took, but it seems you were both just distanced and involved enough to do well
Tachyon Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 I was really worried you would be the 'crash and burn' player in this game, so I was really pleasantly surprised. I don't know what approach you took, but it seems you were both just distanced and involved enough to do well Why would i be the crash and burn player Def?
Waterbrick Down Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Good game to all the players, it was really fun to watch from the sidelines, as always rooting for the town. That last day when it looked like the town might lynch the real doctor, I was shouting at the computer "No, no, no don't do that!" Well played, Chromeknight, you did a very good job in blending in those first few days and acting like a townie, your day posts were good, but as time went on it did surprise me that the scum hadn't taken you out, but we all now know why that was. Nicely played sir Def, it was a pleasure watching you work your mafia hosting magic, great story, characters, and setup. I hope to see some of you in the next few games.
def Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 Why would i be the crash and burn player Def? I thought you couldn't speak English at first, to put it nicely Your posts were very short, weird punctuation, no avatar or signature. I really thought you were living in China or somewhere. After the game started, there was no problem at all, but before it started, I had a lot of worries. If I had to consider it now, I guess, as a new member, you just weren't taking much care in your posts at that point, and after you started playing, you considered things a little more. No worries.
Tachyon Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 I thought you couldn't speak English at first, to put it nicely Your posts were very short, weird punctuation, no avatar or signature. I really thought you were living in China or somewhere. After the game started, there was no problem at all, but before it started, I had a lot of worries. If I had to consider it now, I guess, as a new member, you just weren't taking much care in your posts at that point, and after you started playing, you considered things a little more. No worries. Actually i play mafia online. Oh yeah by the looks of the end. There will probably be a second one like the bloodbrick asylum and the baritones series
def Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 Def, it was a pleasure watching you work your mafia hosting magic, great story, characters, and setup. I hope to see some of you in the next few games. Thanks, I hope to see you in the next few games too You are already a hardcore player. I liked the story of this a fair bit. I'm a big fan of gray story-telling (no real good guys or bad guys) and hopefully, the scum in this game felt justified in their kill spree. They weren't killing people per se, but these primitive anthropods on the planet they were on. I think in the future, I will make all the scum 'good' in future games Oh yeah by the looks of the end. There will probably be a second one like the bloodbrick asylum and the baritones series Off hand, no, there will not be another, but, if I decide to, it'll be further in the past, either in Egypt or Central America. Honestly, I'm mafia'd out. I hosted five games this year (four here, one elsewhere) and I need to air out for a bit. I'm sure I'll do a sharp 180 after New Years though.
Tachyon Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Anyway here's my role. Hi, You are Zam Kuric, The Clerk (zakura)- Kuric is a poor student of philosophy. Having spent his money on books and learning rather than on fine clothes, he is threadbare and wan. He speaks little, but when he does, his words are wise and full of moral virtue. You are Town. You are vanilla town. You need to take out the scum with your cunning wit
yumiyoshi Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Regarding Franklin. I meant that from the point of view of the scum, at that time, we didn't think there was a lot of reason to suspect Franklin, and since he was going to be investigated, that it was unlikely someone would target him. As it was, there was reason to suspect, and the investigation wasn't reason to hold off. If you're talking about something else, feel free to clarify! Actually, I was 100% sure of Franklin as scum, as I was sure about you. As I said, I watch how someome writes, the construct, the tirade... and you and franklin made a big mistake. Spot the difference between your post (yours and Franklin's) and Cecile's ones. Reading all of your posts with this in mind, I got all clear, but I couldn't come out with you since you would have kill me as soon as possible since you totally were the puppet master (your age helped me with this)! Franklin was the best target. I'm glad I got to Pass. Made many mistakes as not creating alliances and not trusting anyone at the end (except for a couple of people) since I got really little time free and I couldn't use my brain properrly. Next time... I want a Big Pass ! :D
Waterbrick Down Posted December 2, 2011 Posted December 2, 2011 Thanks, I hope to see you in the next few games too... Woops I meant "you" in the plural to refer to looking forward to playing with all those who passed, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy playing in games with you (singular), def, also. I'll stop now before I confuse anyone else I am curious as to the inclusion of the hint i.e. the puzzle pieces. What was your reasoning in including them?
def Posted December 2, 2011 Author Posted December 2, 2011 I am curious as to the inclusion of the hint i.e. the puzzle pieces. What was your reasoning in including them? I meant to explain that in the overall 'lesson' I really wanted to emphasize the randomness in this game. I put it up front in the sign ups, but 'meta-logic' has plagued regular and mafia school games for a long time. So that puzzle was meant to encourage meta-logic folks to think beyond things. 12 pieces were given out. There were 17 players. If all 12 piece receivers were town, the game would positively suck. So, the pieces doled out a pinch of information, and doled out a fat lesson on who the scum are. It was a deliberately misleading piece of the puzzle.
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