Some newies questions about LDD 4.2.5

[Hoexbroe]

Hi all,

I´m totally new to LDD (installed it last night).

I'm trying to use advanced constructions, but have some problems;

1) I´ve created a car, but it ended up resting 1 plate up in the air, floating. How do I bring it down on the ground¿? (or bring the ground up to the car)

(The car (Citroen DS 20) rests lower in the back, than in the front, thus LDD lets the back wheels "float"...)

2) I need to use the antenna part of the "mini antenna", but it comes with the base. How can I spearate them¿? -is there a way to create a new piece which would be JUST the antenna part¿?

3) So, no studs-in-technic-holes, I gather from browsing this forum. Major problem, but I wont ask about it here (hehe)

4) Using a 1x2 tile on a stud, ideally the tile could be positioned ANY way we want, but the program seems only to allow whole and half stud positions, even if the tile does not have a pin inside. Any solution to that¿?

5) I know that "pony-ears" are illegal, and the program doesnt allow it. Is there a way to do it anyway, seeing that this method is as old as the existence of the "plate" in the product-range¿? (-and that it has been used in numerous oficial sets in the 60, 70 and 80´s.)

6) Similar to 5); For making side-mirrors to minifig cars, I often use a modified plate with clip, and a 1x1 round plate. Program doesnt seem to allow plates to clip. Is there a way to do this¿?

Thanks in advance for any help, and I am sorry if many of these quiestions are FAQ´s and already answered here. I "did" browse around a little, but may now have seen it. (here´s a fair bit of info anyway... ;-)

[DLuders]

1) "FLOATING" PROBLEM: It may be possible to ROTATE the entire car around the front axle, so that the car's rear tires contact the ground. If you can share your LDD .lxf file here, AFOLs on this forum might be able to play around with it.

2) SEPARATE ANTENNA FROM BASE: This is not possible in LDD -- you cannot separate a two-component part like this digitally.

3) NO STUDS IN TECHNIC HOLES: See Jamie Berard's "Stressing the Elements" PDF file (that shows "legal" and "illegal" techniques in mixing "System" and "Technic" parts together. LDD will supposedly not do any "illegal" Lego building techniques.

4) ONLY WHOLE AND HALF-STUD POSITIONING OF 1x2 TILE: No solution for this.

5) "PONY EARS" ON 1960s-1980s OFFICIAL LEGO SETS: LDD won't model these, because they employed "illegal" Lego building techniques. See Jamie Berard's "Stressing the ELements" presentation.

6) SIDE MIRRORS USING MODIFIED PLATE WITH CLIP AND 1x1 ROUND PLATE: I believe that this is a known deficiency in the LDD program, but I'm not sure.

Edited February 4, 2012 by DLuders

[Hoexbroe]

Thanks for your comments!

2) SEPARATE ANTENNA FROM BASE: This is not possible in LDD -- you cannot separate a two-component part like this digitally.

Is there another program better than LDD, wich will allow even "illegal" methods¿?

3) NO STUDS IN TECHNIC HOLES: See Jamie Berard's "Stressing the Elements" PDF file (that shows "legal" and "illegal" techniques in mixing "System" and "Technic" parts together. LDD will supposedly not do any "illegal" Lego building techniques.

I have this document. From my tests it seems that LDD wont even do the "legal" combinations...

6) SIDE MIRRORS USING MODIFIED PLATE WITH CLIP AND 1x1 ROUND PLATE: I believe that this is a known deficiency in the LDD program, but I'm not sure.

So plates in clips are legal¿?

Edited February 4, 2012 by Hoexbroe

[AndyC]

Is there another program better than LDD, wich will allow even "illegal" methods¿?

"Better" is subjective, but anything based on LDraw will allow anything at all (including utterly impossible things like plates going through the middle of bricks) so you could use one of those. MLCad, LeoCAD and SR3D are the names that spring instantly to mind. The price you pay for such flexibility is that they're typically harder to learn to use than LDD.

[Superkalle]

Hi,

I'll try to answer your questions too, and taken together with the others, hopefully you'll get a good view on the situation.

1) A little bit difficult to tell from the picture. Post the LXF and it will be easier to help out with this one.

2) Not possible unfortuntately. LDD will only allow usage of parts as supplied from TLG in official sets). There are few exceptions but this is the general rule. As a purist I don't mind about this at all, but I know a lot of people don't agree with me.

3) You can in most cases add a single stud into a technic hole in LDD (like a 1x1 round plate, a 1x1 plate and a 1x1 round brick). But no more then one stud is allowed. It is often belived that it is because children cannot pull more then one stud out of technic holes (because of the increased friction in technic holes), but this is not the case.

4) I haven't tried it, but it might be possible to nudge the tile by manually editing the LXFML file (another story how to do that). As long as the collission volumes (that inside each brick in LDD) do not collide, you can "freeplace" any brick in any place/position. It is much more cumbersome then in LDdraw based tools, but it can be done.

5) Not that I know of. The technique was bad in the old days (but this was unknown then), and is bad today as it destroys the bricks. That's why LDD won't allow it. TLG does not want to encurage users to use a techniqe that is not healthy for the bricks.

6) Yes, most likely by scafolding and/or nudging in LXFML file.

Also, I agree that LDraw is better if you want more freedom, specially with old and/or illegal assembly methods. However, LDD is IMHO much faster to use, thereby allowing you to quickly try out various designs. I might be going out on a limb here, but I'd say that LDraw is better for documenting existing designs/MOCs, while LDD is better as support tool during the design process.

[zinfinion]

5)That's why LDD won't allow it.

"Neigh!" says the Knight who says "Neigh!"

[Nachapon Lego]

6q by Nachapon S., on Flickr

1. Temporary add a hinge under the car so all 4 wheels can land on ground. Then use free move to move anything freely.

2. Use minifig screwdriver as replacement.

3.1 Use 1x1 plate for replacement of longer plate or brick. If you want to add something come out on the technic brick (illegal). have to follow steps as shown on the pic.

3.2 Leave a small gap.

4. Use free move method can get two more positions without floating the tile (all connected and hinge-able).

5,6 Use free move.

Edited February 5, 2012 by bbqqq

[Calabar]

4. Use free move method can get two more positions without floating the tile (all connected and hinge-able).

Note that the scaffolding allows much more extra positions, but LDD seems to not accept other than these two extra positions you refer to. LDD act as there would be some sort of collision problem, that obviously there is not.

[Hoexbroe]

Hi guys,

Thanks for your comments. This second round of answers certainly raises my spirit more. -And the image shown by bbqqq returns my faith and will to keep trying! ;-)

Re. Screwdriver instead of antenna; I will try, but the idea is for the anetnna to insert into the grille element. I use it all the time in r/l!

Re. 2x1 tile on one stud; HOW do I "freeplace"¿? As this is probably a FAQ, a link would be very much appreciated.

Re. "Free move" tool import from "Templates"; I´ve taken a look at pictures in the link provided. Am I supposed to make the tool consisting of the Technic-parts myself¿?

Re. "Floating the tile". WHAT does it mean to "float" a piece¿?

Re. Studs in Technic holes; Unfortunatly the "opposite" does not seem to be possible; A single 1x1 Technic brick will NOT attach to a bigger than 1x1 plate or brick.

Re. Pony-ears; @zinfinion; How did YOU make these pony-ears? Are tehre more ways?

***

New problems;

Re. Angle of car. Good idea with the hinge. Will try. Last night I achieved to turn the WHOLE car around one of the axles, but the result isnt perfect; In another car, some SNOT windows in the middle are "imprisoned" parts; not held by any stud-connection, but held in place by other means. When moving/turning the model, this part is considered "detached" by the program, limiting movement/turn of the rest of the model, unless you move it so far away that the imprisoned part no longer is in the way;

-I dont even KNOW what and how to ask, in order to solve this problem... :-/

Also;

Continuing my exploration in LDD, I also want to make "curved walls" of bricks. Many people use this tecnique for making houses and castels, but I need also it for making boat-hulls;

Real life;

LDD;

It seems like LDD limits the angle to 2º. -But sometimes only permits 1.91º and sometimes even only 1º (???). While the program is probably right regarding permisible tolerance, I need a somewhat bigger angle. Maybe 3º. I suppose I have no hope of doing this in LDD, eevn if I have done it numerous times in r/l, and my bricks are still alive and healthy...¿?

***

In the end, I will probably have to make use of Superkalles advice about LDraw, as indeed what I am looking for is DOCUMENTING existing constructions. So I thank you (Takk!) for this, and will try to install this software soon.

Again, thanks for your answers and comments!

[zinfinion]

Place piece to be positioned as close as possible to desired location and orientation.

Select piece and bush that will move in desired direction.

Move bush along shaft until piece is in place.

Repeat for Z axis.

LXF File

You can take the rigging group from here, and save it to your templates.

With regards to terminology, I use "rigging" as the term for the pieces used for freemoving. If I use bricks to get something in place and then delete them, I refer to that as "scaffolding". A combination of the two plus attaching rotation points (I tend to use Technic pin bricks plus hole bricks, as well as turntables) to models will get most things where you want.

Edited February 5, 2012 by zinfinion

[Nachapon Lego]

Note that the scaffolding allows much more extra positions, but LDD seems to not accept other than these two extra positions you refer to. LDD act as there would be some sort of collision problem, that obviously there is not.

Yes I agree. If to editing the LXFML as Superkalle said can allow more position then someone should make a template.

Re. 2x1 tile on one stud; HOW do I "freeplace"¿? As this is probably a FAQ, a link would be very much appreciated.

-First place it normally, then ctrl click to select tile and x or y axle of move tool then drag mouse along that axle.

Re. "Free move" tool import from "Templates"; I´ve taken a look at pictures in the link provided. Am I supposed to make the tool consisting of the Technic-parts myself¿?

-Yes.

Re. "Floating the tile". WHAT does it mean to "float" a piece¿?

-Mean no connection, can't use connected selection tool to select parts together at once.

Re. Studs in Technic holes; Unfortunatly the "opposite" does not seem to be possible; A single 1x1 Technic brick will NOT attach to a bigger than 1x1 plate or brick.

-Can be done with 3.2 method, but hard to explain.

Re. Pony-ears; @zinfinion; How did YOU make these pony-ears? Are tehre more ways?

-Just move it in place with free move, but all of them will floating.

Nice MOCs and curved walls technic .

I tried to make curved walls with LDD.

With normal average angle method-> 1.45 and -1.45 = 2.9 degree, This should already meet your request. inner dia about 80 studs.

With illegal method-> 15 and -15 = 30 degree, inner dia about 7.5 studs.(almost smallest limit)

Don't adjust angles one by one if thay are the same. Copy and paste 2-4-8-16-32... can save time.

cir3 by Nachapon S., on Flickr

Edited February 6, 2012 by bbqqq

[Hoexbroe]

Re. 2x1 tile on one stud; HOW do I "freeplace"¿? As this is probably a FAQ, a link would be very much appreciated.

-First place it normally, then ctrl click to select tile and x or y axle of move tool then drag mouse along that axle.

Re. "Free move" tool import from "Templates"; I´ve taken a look at pictures in the link provided. Am I supposed to make the tool consisting of the Technic-parts myself¿?

-Yes.

Okay, I´ve made two tools, and it works as some of you guys has already demonstrated here. Thanks! (A bit troublesome, but the result cant be denied. Cool!)

Re. "Floating the tile". WHAT does it mean to "float" a piece¿?

-Mean no connection, can't use connected selection tool to select parts together at once.

Not understod. Maybe I´m a bit dim...

Re. Studs in Technic holes; Unfortunatly the "opposite" does not seem to be possible; A single 1x1 Technic brick will NOT attach to a bigger than 1x1 plate or brick.

-Can be done with 3.2 method, but hard to explain.

Do you mean; Leaving a gap between them causes LDD to consider that the pieces are NOT conected, and will therefore NOT crash when you try to move them¿?

I tried to make curved walls with LDD.

With normal average angle method-> 1.45 and -1.45 = 2.9 degree, This should already meet your request. inner dia about 80 studs.

With illegal method-> 6.91 and -6.91 = 13.82 degree, inner dia about 16 studs.(can be smaller)

Don't adjust angles one by one if thay are the same. Copy and paste 2-4-8-16-32... can save time.

First off; According to what you are saying, I think that what I have is already almost 4 degrees, so what I need is much more, like 6-8 degrees.

***

Okay, I tried what you describe and it works! It will be quite a job to adjust, because each angle are normally NOT the same on boat-hulls!

-But at least it gives me something to work from. I´ll try some more! Thanks!

***

Oh, the horror! Once I begin to mix different pieces into the curved section, it runs comletly off track... Boat-hulls are seldom as regular as castle-walls ;-)

You can take the rigging group from here, and save it to your templates.

With regards to terminology, I use "rigging" as the term for the pieces used for freemoving. If I use bricks to get something in place and then delete them, I refer to that as "scaffolding". A combination of the two plus attaching rotation points (I tend to use Technic pin bricks plus hole bricks, as well as turntables) to models will get most things where you want.

Thanks, I get it now! :-)

I *did* try this before, but didnt work, so maybe I wasnt PRECISE enough. I needed to do it with great care.

Plate into clips are done the same way¿?

[Calabar]

Not understood. Maybe I´m a bit dim...

LDD, differently from other lego cad software, recognize connection among bricks.

Two bricks are connected when in "real world" when you can take one grabbing the other. In the "digital word" connected bricks can be considered a single element when you use functions like rotation, connected selection tool, ecc... (and that's why when you rotate the car, some element don't move with the rest of the car).

Unfortunately LDD need to program connection among bricks to recognize it. That means that a connection that has not been programmed is impossible in LDD.

In that situations, often you can place two bricks so that they appears connected, but LDD see the bricks simply as "put beside".

[Sjuip]

LDD, differently from other lego cad software, recognize connection among bricks.

Two bricks are connected when in "real world" when you can take one grabbing the other. In the "digital word" connected bricks can be considered a single element when you use functions like rotation, connected selection tool, ecc... (and that's why when you rotate the car, some element don't move with the rest of the car).

Unfortunately LDD need to program connection among bricks to recognize it. That means that a connection that has not been programmed is impossible in LDD.

In that situations, often you can place two bricks so that they appears connected, but LDD see the bricks simply as "put beside".

You can move parts that LDD does not recognise as connected simultaneously with the others, though, with the group function. As far as I understand it, the group function 'remembers' relative positions of bricks.

If you have all elements (connected and not-connected) together in a group and you rotate/move this group, even the parts that are not recognised as being connected will move/rotate (since they belong to the group).

Edited February 5, 2012 by Sjuip

[Calabar]

I never noticed that!

I thought groups only allows to easily select bricks (and selected bricks can be moved together, the connection is not necessary), but I didn't thought that groups could influence tools such as the rotation one.

I'll make a try later!

[zinfinion]

I'm not entirely certain that groups rotate like that. I haven't ever had it happen. Is there some specific method to it? Because that would be very helpful.

[Hoexbroe]

You can move parts that LDD does not recognise as connected simultaneously with the others, though, with the group function. As far as I understand it, the group function 'remembers' relative positions of bricks.

If you have all elements (connected and not-connected) together in a group and you rotate/move this group, even the parts that are not recognised as being connected will move/rotate (since they belong to the group).

Hum.... Testing! Nope :-(

The "imprisoned" windows of the 2CV did not rotate with the car after being grouped together with the rest of the model.

[Superkalle]

Grouping in LDD is basically only a way to create a collection of bricks for easy selection. There is no more additional functionality to groups, then it is to simply do a manual multi select of bricks.

[zinfinion]

As I thought. If I need to rotate a group with unattached pieces, I will pull off those pieces along with a piece that does attach, rotate the remainder of the group, and then reattach the one piece while having all the unattached pieces selected as well. This generally does the trick.