Capt. Redblade Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Incorrect. Were they Scummy? Yes. That is why I suspect you. I wouldn't suspect you if your actions weren't Scummy. You were a sheep, you jumped on three different people, you voted for one person when there were stronger cases against two others whom you had previously suspected, you seemed very eager to agree with whoever accused someone else, and you made a really bad excuse for inactivity, which no one had pointed out about you anyways. That's Scummy, or at the very least the sign of an inexperienced sheep who isn't helping. (and thus only helps the Scum) Are you, in fact, a Scum? I don't know. But did you act like one? Yes, you did. Okay, wow. Yikes. When you put it like that, that is scummy as s**t. Jesus. I, Lizzy, pseudo-quasi-daughter of Emi, do hereby swear to no longer jump around with my votes, and only leap on whichever bandwagon is the most convenient, like a good Townie should. All jokes aside, by "scummy", I mean "the actions of a no-doubt-about-it Scum", not "actions that are Scum-like." While I can totally see whence the accusations come, I maintain that my actions weren't scummy, in that they weren't the actions of a no-doubt-about-it Scum. But by your definition, holy hell, they totally were. Sorry. Just so nobody is confused: Suspicious? Yes. Actions of a no-doubt-about-it, lynch-'em-high-and-charge-'em-for-the-rope Scum? No. I am not the droids scum you're looking for.
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 All jokes aside, by "scummy", I mean "the actions of a no-doubt-about-it Scum", not "actions that are Scum-like." While I can totally see whence the accusations come, I maintain that my actions weren't scummy, in that they weren't the actions of a no-doubt-about-it Scum. But by your definition, holy hell, they totally were. Sorry. Just so nobody is confused: Suspicious? Yes. Actions of a no-doubt-about-it, lynch-'em-high-and-charge-'em-for-the-rope Scum? No. Nobody said you were a "no-doubt-about-it Scum". Fine, if you want to use the word that way, then you were highly suspicious and acted Scum-like. It doesn't change my opinion of your actions. (and neither should it change anybody else's - now it's just being called something else) I, Lizzy, pseudo-quasi-daughter of Emi, do hereby swear to no longer jump around with my votes, and only leap on whichever bandwagon is the most convenient, like a good Townie should. Nobody asked you to jump on convenient bandwagons. (and I realize you were being sarcastic, but it's obvious that you did that to mock my assessment of your behavior, so I'm going to point out that I never asked you to do anything close to that) You weren't even jumping on bandwagons in the first place. You jumped on one bandwagon, and then switched your vote to another suspect for whom there were no votes and who wasn't as suspicious. The problem is that you didn't make the vote that makes sense. You just decided to agree with the latest accusation instead. Good Townies used their heads and reason out who is the most suspicious. Maniko was not the most suspicious.
Capt. Redblade Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Nobody asked you to jump on convenient bandwagons. (and I realize you were being sarcastic, but it's obvious that you did that to mock my assessment of your behavior, so I'm going to point out that I never asked you to do anything close to that) You weren't even jumping on bandwagons in the first place. You jumped on one bandwagon, and then switched your vote to another suspect for whom there were no votes and who wasn't as suspicious. The problem is that you didn't make the vote that makes sense. You just decided to agree with the latest accusation instead. Good Townies used their heads and reason out who is the most suspicious. Maniko was not the most suspicious. The last part of my statement was not directed at you, or anyone. It had nothing to do with suspicion or your assessment of my behaviour (which I am in no way mocking). It was a simple joke into which you are reading too much. To paraphrase Al Lettieri: "I'm the hunted one. I've missed my chance. You think too much of me, Emi-sama. I am not that clever."
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 You think too much of me, Emi-sama. I am not that clever." All right, then, if you admit that you aren't clever enough to decide who's the best choice for a vote (seriously, there was little to no chance for your vote for Maniko to impact Yesterday's lynch, and it's not as if you were doing it to prove a point of your own, since you made no points of your own Yesterday), you are in no way helping the Townie effort if you are actually a Townie. If nothing more suspicious comes up before the end of the Day, I don't think it's a bad move to risk eliminating a Townie who isn't able to decide which suspect should be sheepishly voted for and only votes, suspects, or accuses in agreement with the latest accusation.If a Townie doesn't help the Town, he is only helping the Scum. Of course, that's a big 'if' when I say, "If nothing more suspicious comes up before the end of the Day". I still think Shizuko could have been trying to cast doubts on our lynch, and earlier Today after my last statement concerning her, I saw her posting open her mouth and then leave the thread then say nothing.
CorneliusMurdock Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Sorry for being late to the discussion today. Studying. First, I'd like to address any concerns about my vote against Akio. I don't see what is so scummy about not jumping on a bandwagon when my vote would mean absolutely nothing. Instead I chose to voice my concern about another suspect. I did not defend Yasu in doing so nor did I expect my single vote against someone else to save her. I was just bringing what I felt to be suspicious behavior to the attention of my family. Secondly, I find it hard to believe that Ichirou has found so many roles so quickly. And all this talk of masonry wouldn't explain it either. If Ichirou came by such information as a mason of some sort, surely it would be better for him to keep it within the masons rather than blurting it out to the rest of the town. Information is power and saying, "hey I've been in contact with the investigator and the blocker and they say..." when you have no information that would really help the town at this point seems sloppy at best. In any case, a lot of people have said a lot of things so far today. I'll have to go through it all again once I have some more time.
CMP Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Sorry. Been on and off doing things in real life. Like I said, you weren't avoiding the lynch. I never said you were avoiding the lynch. I said you could have been trying to cast doubt on the lynch, and I also specifically said that there was a difference between casting doubt on a lynch and avoiding a lynch. Either you misread my statement or you are being overly defensive. Or maybe both. Both. Well, avoiding the lynch is basically the result of casting doubts upon it, isn't it?
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Both. Well, avoiding the lynch is basically the result of casting doubts upon it, isn't it? No. You can as Scum sow the seeds of doubt, then hope that the Town will be split into multiple bandwagons, allowing the Scum to come in and tip the votes in their favor. (or convince the Townies to do so, which I think would be much easier if the Townies already doubted their current vote) Thus, the Scum can participate in the lynch and cast doubts at the same time. And admitting to being overly defensive? I have to say that that does not help my suspicions of you.
CMP Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 No. You can as Scum sow the seeds of doubt, then hope that the Town will be split into multiple bandwagons, allowing the Scum to come in and tip the votes in their favor. (or convince the Townies to do so, which I think would be much easier if the Townies already doubted their current vote) Thus, the Scum can participate in the lynch and cast doubts at the same time. And admitting to being overly defensive? I have to say that that does not help my suspicions of you. If I was scum, I would've done a bit more than say that one statement. Yeah, I suppose it could've been sowing doubt, but this was at the beginning of the day. Around 4 or 5 people already began questioning Yasu's loyalty. That worried me, so I mis-stated that it wasn't a sure bet she was scum. Obviously we were all right to suspect her, but it seemed like people had been a bit overeager to get on with it. Maybe it's just me who saw that. If I had known blowing up over the girl would've gotten me out of suspicion about whatever loyalty she had later, I would've followed Ichirou's footsteps. It's a good point, though, that he is actually probably townie, but after a rather gruesome Egyptian play's ending, I'd've thought that, as a scum, he'd try a different, more aggressive strategy. Think - in that very same play, and many before it, the most outspoken person day one ends up obliterating the scum. Perhaps he wanted his opportunity to do that while saving his misguided ally. As to admitting being overly defensive, I've learned that lying, denying, and playing stupid about behavior gets you nowhere but the chopping block as town. If I'm being suspected, I'm going to defend myself. I don't like suspicions that could get me lynched hanging over my head, team win or not. I'm not afraid of death. I don't have much direct use. I'd just prefer to avoid it and focus on who else is being suspected to today. Something I've still neglected to look over...
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 If I was scum, I would've done a bit more than say that one statement. Yeah, I suppose it could've been sowing doubt, but this was at the beginning of the day. Around 4 or 5 people already began questioning Yasu's loyalty. That worried me, so I mis-stated that it wasn't a sure bet she was scum. Obviously we were all right to suspect her, but it seemed like people had been a bit overeager to get on with it. Maybe it's just me who saw that. I suppose. I myself wasn't that confident of Yasu's Scumminess then, though she was the best suspect at the time. As to admitting being overly defensive, I've learned that lying, denying, and playing stupid about behavior gets you nowhere but the chopping block as town. If I'm being suspected, I'm going to defend myself. I don't like suspicions that could get me lynched hanging over my head, team win or not. Fair point.
Capt. Redblade Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 All right, then, if you admit that you aren't clever enough to decide who's the best choice for a vote (seriously, there was little to no chance for your vote for Maniko to impact Yesterday's lynch, and it's not as if you were doing it to prove a point of your own, since you made no points of your own Yesterday), you are in no way helping the Townie effort if you are actually a Townie. If nothing more suspicious comes up before the end of the Day, I don't think it's a bad move to risk eliminating a Townie who isn't able to decide which suspect should be sheepishly voted for and only votes, suspects, or accuses in agreement with the latest accusation. It's a quote from The Godfather. Again, try not to read too much into my statements.
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 It's a quote from The Godfather. Again, try not to read too much into my statements. It's clear that in your version of the quote, you were telling me that you weren't clever enough. (to figure out which suspect was close to a sensible option to vote for) If it didn't apply to the conversation, why say it?
Tamamono Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 First, I'd like to address any concerns about my vote against Akio. I don't see what is so scummy about not jumping on a bandwagon when my vote would mean absolutely nothing. Instead I chose to voice my concern about another suspect. I did not defend Yasu in doing so nor did I expect my single vote against someone else to save her. I was just bringing what I felt to be suspicious behavior to the attention of my family. I've got agree with Manga about this. The votes were stacking up against Yasu-chan, and there was no way she was not going to get lynched, so Manga put the remaining time of the Day to good use. Just because we find a target for lynching doesn't mean we should get tunnel vision and think it'll be an 'easy day'. Even if that person is going to get lynched, that doesn't excuse laziness. Time spent lounging around and waiting for the Day to end is time that could be spent finding scum. Plus, if Manga were scum, then why on Earth would she not vote for her teammate at that point? That's a newbie mistake. Secondly, I find it hard to believe that Ichirou has found so many roles so quickly. And all this talk of masonry wouldn't explain it either. If Ichirou came by such information as a mason of some sort, surely it would be better for him to keep it within the masons rather than blurting it out to the rest of the town. Information is power and saying, "hey I've been in contact with the investigator and the blocker and they say..." when you have no information that would really help the town at this point seems sloppy at best. Yes, I admit that what I said earlier was a tad sloppy. As someone who is helping the town, it was irresponsible of me to let information slip, and for that I am very sorry. I now know to hold my tongue next time. However, I think the info I have can and has helped the town. It may not be much, but it's definitely something, and that's much better than nothing. If I had known blowing up over the girl would've gotten me out of suspicion about whatever loyalty she had later, I would've followed Ichirou's footsteps. 'Get you out of suspicion'? Do you have any idea how scummy this looks? If you're a townie, then you should not be afraid of suspicion. By just being yourself and being helpful you can prove that you're town. You shouldn't have to rely on things to 'get you out of suspicion'. (And no, I'm not just saying that because you used me as an example ) The only reason I'm not counting your statement as a scumtell is because you're experienced to know not to say something like that if you're scum. But then again... It's a good point, though, that he is actually probably townie, but after a rather gruesome Egyptian play's ending, I'd've thought that, as a scum, he'd try a different, more aggressive strategy. Think - in that very same play, and many before it, the most outspoken person day one ends up obliterating the scum. Perhaps he wanted his opportunity to do that while saving his misguided ally. Things worked out well last life considering how organized the town was so early. Why would I need to change my style? I don't mess with success, you know. The reason I'm a bit clumsy this time is because I'm not used to the way I'm trying to play this game. And the second part of that statement doesn't make very much sense. Why would I want to 'obliterate' the scum if I was one of them with Yasu-chan?
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Why would I need to change my style? I don't mess with success, you know. The reason I'm a bit clumsy this time is because I'm not used to the way I'm trying to play this game. Wait, so you're saying that you didn't change your style, yet you're not used to the way you're trying to play the game? So you were never used to your style? You can't try to change the way you play the game without changing your style. (however subtle such a change might be)Wait a minute. I just noticed this: Things worked out well last life considering how organized the town was so early. Why would I need to change my style? I don't mess with success, you know. The reason I'm a bit clumsy this time is because I'm not used to the way I'm trying to play this game. Last life, you were Scum. Are you saying that you haven't changed your playing style from the last game to this game? Despite the fact that you were Scum in that game? I don't see how you could expect to be successful as a Townie player using a Scum playing style. Unless you think your Scum style will be successful again because you are Scum in this game, too.
CMP Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 'Get you out of suspicion'? Do you have any idea how scummy this looks? If you're a townie, then you should not be afraid of suspicion. By just being yourself and being helpful you can prove that you're town. You shouldn't have to rely on things to 'get you out of suspicion'. (And no, I'm not just saying that because you used me as an example ) I'm not afraid of death. I don't have much direct use. I'd just prefer to avoid it and focus on who else is being suspected to today. Something I've still neglected to look over... The only reason I'm not counting your statement as a scumtell is because you're experienced to know not to say something like that if you're scum. But then again... Just because I'm not afraid of suspicion doesn't mean I wouldn't like to avoid it. Being myself and helpful is what I'm trying to do, I just dislike suspicion on me while I'm doing it. Slipups just haven't been as plentiful today. I have suspects, but not many more than most could discern from the day thread. That statement was a bit of a joke, but it's my fault for bringing it up, so I suppose I should defend it. And the second part of that statement doesn't make very much sense. Why would I want to 'obliterate' the scum if I was one of them with Yasu-chan? ...I guess you have a point there. That was a really stupid idea.
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Just because I'm not afraid of suspicion doesn't mean I wouldn't like to avoid it. Being myself and helpful is what I'm trying to do, I just dislike suspicion on me while I'm doing it. Slipups just haven't been as plentiful today. I have suspects, but not many more than most could discern from the day thread. I hope I'm not misinterpreting this statement, but I want to point out that if you have to try to be yourself, then you really aren't, which to me would indicate that you are Scum.
CMP Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I hope I'm not misinterpreting this statement, but I want to point out that if you have to try to be yourself, then you really aren't, which to me would indicate that you are Scum. That was meant for the helpful part.
def Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Well, we're nearing that time where we have to vote. I'm pretty unsure of who to lynch today. I have a number of people in the family I feel confident about not lynching, but not about who should be lynched. I don't think any of the accusations today are particularly solid. There aren't uncalled for, but they don't make a case I can feel comfortable with. I'm inclined to vote for someone checking in with us, but not really putting themselves out there. Off the top of my head, I'd consider: Tadao (The Legonater) Akio (Rumble Strike) Setsuku (Fhomess) Kenta (Nightshroud99) Yasuko (RileyC) Lizzy (Capt. Redblade) Shiro (Alopex) Hanako (Professor Flitwick) Akira (Bob) Maniko (Swils) Hiroki (Etzel) Daisuke (Scorpiox) Cherry Blossom (WhiteFang) It's partially based on those people not having had contact with me in order to feel them out, and me not getting a read on them in public. Obviously with such a large list, I realize that a fair number of those people are loyal to the family, so take no offense at being there Outside, the plum blossoms bloom, and the sound of a raven calls in the distance. The open space of the deserted courtyard amplifies it's cry, calling attention to the depth of its emptiness, an emptiness you can feel around you Actually, I'd like to take Akira (Bob) off that list And I'm on the fence about Kenta (Nightshroud99).
Tamamono Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Wait, so you're saying that you didn't change your style, yet you're not used to the way you're trying to play the game? So you were never used to your style? You can't try to change the way you play the game without changing your style. (however subtle such a change might be) Wait a minute. I just noticed this: Last life, you were Scum. Are you saying that you haven't changed your playing style from the last game to this game? Despite the fact that you were Scum in that game? I don't see how you could expect to be successful as a Townie player using a Scum playing style. Unless you think your Scum style will be successful again because you are Scum in this game, too. I suppose I phrased that poorly. I do not play town like a scummie and scum like a townie. That would be silly. I mean that I have my own distinct style for scum, and I would have no reason to change it. Also, I said I don't mess with success. If I recall correctly, very rarely do I do much succeeding as town. Hoo, boy, we're talking an awful lot about past lives, aren't we? I can't imagine Grandfather is very happy about this. Sorry, Grandpa! Just because I'm not afraid of suspicion doesn't mean I wouldn't like to avoid it. Being myself and helpful is what I'm trying to do, I just dislike suspicion on me while I'm doing it. Slipups just haven't been as plentiful today. I have suspects, but not many more than most could discern from the day thread. Fair enough. It's human nature (or lizard nature, in Lizzy's case) to hate being under suspicion, so I suppose it is understandable that you would want to avoid suspicion. I certainly don't like being suspected, and I've been under quite a bit of suspicion today, but it doesn't bother me because I know I'm innocent. I'm not doing anything to 'get out of' being suspected because I've been working hard for the town and I trust that my pro-town actions today and yesterday (no matter how stupid they were yesterday) will speak for themselves. One suggestion though: maybe a good way to avoid suspicion would be to stop taking the middle road the scum usually take and actually start being helpful? I know, it's a bit of a stretch, but it definitely helps in the long run. I don't think you'd make a comment like you did if you had thought long and hard about it, and you may have meant it as a joke, but I'm seeing it as more of a Freudian slip, myself.
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I suppose I phrased that poorly. I do not play town like a scummie and scum like a townie. That would be silly. I mean that I have my own distinct style for scum, and I would have no reason to change it. Also, I said I don't mess with success. If I recall correctly, very rarely do I do much succeeding as town. Oh, oh, I get it! You meant to say that if you were Scum, you would be behaving the same way you did in the last life, since you regarded that life as successful. I get it! MegaBloks, I seem to misinterpreting things left and right Today.
Nightshroud99 Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I'm inclined to vote for someone checking in with us, but not really putting themselves out there. Always thinking about the future hmm? I certainly don't like being suspected, and I've been under quite a bit of suspicion today, but it doesn't bother me because I know I'm innocent. I'm not doing anything to 'get out of' being suspected because I've been working hard for the town and I trust that my pro-town actions today and yesterday (no matter how stupid they were yesterday) will speak for themselves. One suggestion though: maybe a good way to avoid suspicion would be to stop taking the middle road the scum usually take and actually start being helpful? I know, it's a bit of a stretch, but it definitely helps in the long run. I've been thinking about you and ,yes, you certainly are trying to appear pro-town. So much so that I believe you want to be investigated, which will reveal your innocence. But I think you are actually the leader of these Mutineers. The veritable scum Godfather; as long as you aren't lynched. You will be investigated, unless our investigator is dumb. When the results come back as innocent, you'll be on easy street. Just a hunch of mine, your posts just haven't felt right to me all day.
Tachyon Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Yeah tammano told me he was tying to find as many useful and trustworthy townies as possible. How scummy does that sound ???
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Yeah tammano told me he was tying to find as many useful and trustworthy townies as possible. How scummy does that sound ??? Not nearly as Scummy as acting like you've given up in saying that you're probably going to be lynched for being unhelpful even though no one has accused you, then doing absolutely nothing to be more helpful.
Tachyon Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Not nearly as Scummy as acting like you've given up in saying that you're probably going to be lynched for being unhelpful even though no one has accused you, then doing absolutely nothing to be more helpful. Would a scum really invite themselves to be lynched when there are townies who they an pass the blame on ???
Brickdoctor Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Would a scum really invite themselves to be lynched when there are townies who they an pass the blame on ??? What? I'm confused. Who invited themselves to be lynched? You? And if you were Scum, what Townies could you blame for your own unhelpfulness?
Tamamono Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I've been thinking about you and ,yes, you certainly are trying to appear pro-town. So much so that I believe you want to be investigated, which will reveal your innocence. But I think you are actually the leader of these Mutineers. The veritable scum Godfather; as long as you aren't lynched. You will be investigated, unless our investigator is dumb. When the results come back as innocent, you'll be on easy street. Just a hunch of mine, your posts just haven't felt right to me all day. So you're more willing to believe a stretch like that than to believe the obvious truth, which is that I'm town? I understand what it feels like you to be on 'the hunt' for a scum - you'll pretty much believe anything or delude yourself into thinking anything for your hunch to be right, but you need to stop and take a step back. Consider the two possibilities: 1 (the truth). I am town and I made some bad decisions yesterday, or 2 (your theory). I am the scum Godfather who purposely decided to look scummy so he would be investigated. Hmm, I wonder which one is more likely? Face it, Kenta-kun, you're getting tunnel vision, and nothing good can come of that. Yeah tammano told me he was tying to find as many useful and trustworthy townies as possible. How scummy does that sound ??? Not scummy at all. I am trying to take responsibility for as many of my fellow Yakuza members as possible, so there's no reason not look for useful and trustworthy townies. To be honest, I actually sent you that message because you really don't sit right with me and a few others. You say almost nothing all Day (yesterday), and then you come out with quite possibly some of the most unhelpful, useless comments I have ever seen. How could you expect me to not think you're scum? Would a scum really invite themselves to be lynched when there are townies who they an pass the blame on ??? I don't even know what to make of this sentence. What?
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