Killing the Dead Contest Discussion

[xwingyoda]

No offence to anyone, but looking at many of the entries in the other thread I wonder if you don't think some of you are lacking the spirit of real vignettes in your entrys? I saw lots of entrys much larger than 8x8 and just having a 8x8 plate underneath as some sort of an excuse, this seems rather wierd to me.

Like putting a well-balanced 8x8 plate beneath the UCS Falcon and calling this a Falcon Vignette... *wacko*

Non taken ;-)

And I don't think I lack the spirit of a vig just by abiding the contest rules ;-) I hate beeing construed to such a limited space for a horse dismemberment so I overlapped like stated in the rules.

And BTW I don't need any excuses to build what I want...

*yoda*

[Siegfried]

No offence to anyone, but looking at many of the entries in the other thread I wonder if you don't think some of you are lacking the spirit of real vignettes in your entrys?

I feel the same way, but it's probably just because I'm too much of a wanker to join in. :-$ It is funny to compare the overlap here with the overlap in the Kill Jar Jar contest. I always saw the overlap rule to mean stuff like mini-fig arms/legs, doors, windows, roof overhang... that kind of stuff. These days I have no idea what it means. Overhang seems a better choice of words. Perhaps we should just forget vignette contests at EB and call them "small MOCs" instead? :-P I'm all for fun, but having a rule that is bent this far is silly. Wouldn't it be more fun and more free if we removed the 8x8 rule completely?

[xwingyoda]

I feel the same way, but it's probably just because I'm too much of a wanker to join in. :-$

Amen to that !!

I'm all for fun, but having a rule that is bent this far is silly.

Well that post clearly states the opposite !! You don't like that rule than don't apply it and give us a brake !! Start your own contest and chose whatever you want, who cares !!

*yoda*

[Siegfried]

Amen to that !!

Well that post clearly states the opposite !! You don't like that rule than don't apply it and give us a brake !! Start your own contest and chose whatever you want, who cares !!

*yoda*

I really don't understand your reaction. I thought you would be all for allowing larger entries. Our vignettes contests have been going that way anyway and I just wanted some clarification. Even so, I wasn't trying to annoy you, but it sounds like I have. I apoligise for this but I must admit I am very confused as to why you responded that way. This is the second time you have seemed very annoyed with me for making what I thought was a harmless suggestion. Are suggestions that unwelcome here or am I just mis-understanding your reaction?

[xwingyoda]

Not at all buddy ;-) Suggrestions are always welcome off course but I might have misunderstood your post and I pologize if you thought my reply was kind of aggressive which it was really not (at least in my mind :-P ). I didn't take your post personnally at all ;-)

It sometimes I get fed up with whining !! Nothing is perfect, the vigs should be 8x8 only, then again if its small MOCS what are those and yada yada yda...

G I don't get whats wrong with overlapping vigs :-| You don't like them, don't build them.

I am all for freedom as you know so I just abide the contest rules, thats all !!

I don't get the small MOC, what is that 16x32, 12x4 and what have you !!

And Sinner I am like you for fun and free so I don't see what you guys are pissed about overlapping, isn't that freedom after all ?

*yoda*

[WesternOutlaw]

Brickster-Yay! X-D A Brickster entry-glad to see you here. Love it, simple yet devishly cruel and effective! I apologize for starting a contest encouraging people to kill you... :-$

At last, something to respect you for. :-D Great contest!

[ApophisV]

Huh, my philosophic comments about vignettes lead to a messy discussion... 8-| Wasn't my aim.

Yoda, my post wasn't meant to force those that build bigger creations to excuse, as you just said, the rules allowed it anyway.

I was just thinking about that vignette idea in generall, I have the feeling that the orginal vignette spirit is slowely fading away.

Originally the idea behind the vignettes was to build a particular scene / model / whatever at an given room (normally 8x8 studs). A vignette showed some sort of a 3-dimensional crosscut of the bigger scene it is supposed to be in.

The use of vignettes nowadays seems to be another, especially if "building a vignette" is part of the rules of a contest:

It seems more to be only some sort of limitation to make people build small to medium creations instead of really huge ones.

As I said, this is not a point of critizing any of your creations (since there are some real great ones even if they are "too big"!), but critizing the usage of the word "vignette" and critizing the developements vignettes went through:

I always loved vignettes because I think restrictions are always a great source for creativity. By restricting yourself (to particular parts --> alternates / to a particular size --> vignettes / to a particular amount of parts --> use-no-more-than-50-pieces / ...) you are often forced to do things you would never have done if the situation had been the usual one. You try new techniques, you do more "risky" things (e.g. color variation, abstract techniques,...) and so on.

Well, why did I elaborate on this now? Gotta read the paragraphs I wrote... *reads*... Ah, okay, I know again! *wacko*

My inspiration to write my previous posting was to make you guys think about having some sort of changes in using the WORD "Vignette", to refrain from having lots of vignettes contests (which don't follow the original spirit anymore) and to differentiate between a "Vignette" and a "Small Creation" again.

Yeah, that's it... Again, no offence to anyone, I love your entries (actually I don't even know who build what... :-$ ) and I want to see more stuff like it, I just don't like it to be called "vignettes"... :-)

[Username_Taken]

Im cooking up a pretty cool vignette to add to the mix, so be ready!

[Hinckley]

Huh, my philosophic comments about vignettes lead to a messy discussion... 8-| Wasn't my aim.

No no! :'-( It's all my fault. Let's just all go to group therapy...

Apo, I totally hear what you are saying. My opinion of vignettes is low. I was very irritated (irrational, I know) with the vig craze when it first started. I thought they were a lazy way of building. I didn't like seeing people with great skill apply it only to an 8x8 vig when it could be applied to a whole building or landscape or spaceship, etc...and then people started building maxi-vigs and I thought "that's a building..."

Anyway, I hold vig contests because it encourages entries. People think of vigs as easier to build and are more likely to enter, IMO. However I leave it open so people aren't limited. Remember the early days of vigs? FBTB would hold contest where the rules were ridiculously strict: "No part may go outside the 8x8 vig unless it is a mini-fig hand and then it may only extend 1/32 of an inch. If the whole arm needs to extend then it may take up to 1/4 of an inch as long as the hand is turned to hold a untensil vertically but not horizontally. however, mini-fig untenstils are banned..."

Or something like that. Anyway, I like contests to be creative and not too limiting. So when the 8x8 concept is completely obliterated by a landscape, I think it's great. Those entries may be shunned by voters for going so outside the vig standard, but I encourage the ideas more than the restrictions...

And that is only my opinion ;-)

BTW, Mr. Apo...IMO, you are an excellent vig builder. Where's your entry? Stop wasting time philosophizing (I had to look that up-and I had it right!) and enter my contest!...Please?? :'-)

*wub* Apo entries

[Siegfried]

My opinion of vignettes is low. I was very irritated (irrational, I know) with the vig craze when it first started. I thought they were a lazy way of building.

Interestingly I feel the same way. My first vig was for a contest on EB and I have never made one for just fun. But I do think we are kidding ourselves here. A lot. If someone submitted an X-Wing with wheels for a car contest wouldn't that be a bit silly? That is how I see our take on vignettes. Yes, there is an overlap rule, but as the old saying goes; "If my Grandmother had wheels she would be a wagon". Picking apart a rule and running with a single word instead of the sentence as a whole seems silly to me. The rule states "Vig must be built on and 8x8 base, overlap to your heart's content". 10x8 (and even 16x8) is one thing, but the way we are going our next contest will have more and more people forgetting that there was supposed to be an 8 in there at all.

So to answer your question Yoda, when I said small MOCs I had in mind a 16x16 rule, but in reality I am happy with whatever people agree upon. I just want clarity and.... well... agreement. X-D If people feel constrained by 8x8 then maybe we should go for 16x8 or 16x16. As ApophisV pointed out in his excellent link, 16x16 is an "accepted" vig size anyway! :-P So in summary, I propose that the next time we do a vig contest we either say 16x16, or make no mention of size at all.

[Hinckley]

:-D you said "wanker" :-D :-D :-D

[Siegfried]

:-D you said "wanker" :-D :-D :-D

I did! :-P I decided that saying self-servicer wasn't funny anymore and was probably confusing people... 8-| I like clarity afterall, and I want people to be sure that I am a wanker. ;-) (Not in a literal sense; I am married after all...)

[Hinckley]

I did! :-P I decided that saying self-servicer wasn't funny anymore and was probably confusing people... 8-| I like clarity afterall, and I want people to be sure that I am a wanker. ;-) (Not in a literal sense; I am married after all...)

Hmmm...what about when she goes out of town, or to work, or to the store, or she's asleep already... *wacko*

Anyway, perhaps next time I do a contest, I'll just call it a vig-type diorama contest...perhaps limit it to 32 x 32. I don't know. Just have fun killing skeletons and talk about your wanking habits in the meantime. Everything else is complete nonsense!

[Siegfried]

Hmmm...what about when she goes out of town, or to work, or to the store, or she's asleep already... *wacko*

Well to me a literal wanker is someone who does it a lot. At least once a week, if not once a day... It's like the title "Actor". I have been in a few shows here and there, but I don't think I should call myself an Actor. I have just done it a few times. Same story with wanking. Any more questions? ;-)

Anyway, perhaps next time I do a contest, I'll just call it a vig-type diorama contest...perhaps limit it to 32 x 32. I don't know. Just have fun killing skeletons and talk about your wanking habits in the meantime. Everything else is complete nonsense! :-D

Yay! Hurrah for nonsense! :-P

[Hinckley]

Well to me a literal wanker is someone who does it a lot. At least once a week, if not once a day... It's like the title "Actor". I have been in a few shows here and there, but I don't think I should call myself an Actor. I have just done it a few times. Same story with wanking. Any more questions? ;-)

Plenty, but I'll ask after I've had a couple more whiskeys...

[Capn Frank]

I like the 16x16 rule thingy (for future contests i suppose)

I'm not a big fan of building actual 8x8 vigs. 8-|

But i like seeing 8x8 vigs that're created X-D

and have been impressed by many *y*

Didn't want Sir Nadroj mad at me :-$

Since i usually don't like making vigs, i pushed the rules a bit 8-|

although hinckley did say we could make vigs bigger :-P

P

Edited November 4, 2007 by phred

[iamded]

Cap'n SlyOwl, what a great vig! A very unique idea, fantastic building techniques and use of parts! An awesomely twisted vig. *y* *y*

~Peace

[xwingyoda]

I like the vig concept (even the stretched one mind you :-P ) and also small competitions because it makes everybody on an equal start ;-)

Total freedom always reward the biggest entry, or the entry with the most bricks, and thats clearly an area where history always repeats itself and that annoys me. I really might refrain from entering those from now on since they are not fun at all.

And once again Statler and Waldorf crack me up X-D

*yoda*

[ApophisV]

BTW, Mr. Apo...IMO, you are an excellent vig builder. Where's your entry? Stop wasting time philosophizing (I had to look that up-and I had it right!) and enter my contest!...Please?? :'-)

*wub* Apo entries

Ooooh, thanks for the compliment! :'-) But I fear I have to disappoint you here, I am currently in a real time management problem situation, got to manage

a) my studies (30h of courses the week + ~20 hours of learning)

b) my toy store job (25 hours)

c) my THW job (voluntary position, 5 hours per week)

and d) my projects at the advertising agency (~10 - 20 hours the week)

This leaves me like 70 or 80 hours of free time, which I have to use to sleep, to eat, manage the household and use our great bus infrastructure ( |-/ ) to drive from A to B every day at least one or two hours)

Long story short, no time for LEGO currently. :'-(

Anyway, back to topic: What about restricting the sizes to a particular size of studs (independant from the aspect ratio) instead of a particular lenghts and widths of the creations?

[Siegfried]

Long story short, no time for LEGO currently. :'-(

...and I thought I had it bad!

Anyway, back to topic: What about restricting the sizes to a particular size of studs (independant from the aspect ratio) instead of a particular lenghts and widths of the creations?

I like that idea. *sweet*

[TheFrisian]

What about restricting the sizes to a particular size of studs (independant from the aspect ratio) instead of a particular lenghts and widths of the creations?

You mean when a contest has a size restriction of for example 12 studs, it doesn't matter if the entry is 3x4, 2x6 or 1x12 studs, as long as it complies with the total number of studs? That is actually not a bad idea at all, it allows for a lot more freedom than the fixed 8x8 vig format.

[xwingyoda]

You mean when a contest has a size restriction of for example 12 studs, it doesn't matter if the entry is 3x4, 2x6 or 1x12 studs, as long as it complies with the total number of studs? That is actually not a bad idea at all, it allows for a lot more freedom than the fixed 8x8 vig format.

I really don't understand that *wacko* If its too complicated I'm out, screw these restitctions :-P

*yoda*

[aayla-secura]

I understand nothing you guys were talking along this 2 pages :-P , could be cause i didnt read X-D

Back to topic: i think some are too overlapped , really thats then nothing about a vig contest thats a baseplate contest ...

I mean can we count PHRED's entry , really guys its about VIG .. on a 8x8 plate thats the contest ... *sad*

[SlyOwl]

What I think we're saying about vigs is that if you start with an 8x8 base, you can overlap as far as 2 studs on each side, so effectively using a 12x12 with no overlap (which looks funny IMO :-D). Alternatively you could use a system of "overlap points" where you can overlap onto, say, 30 square studs worth of area, but no more. This means if you have a dinosaur tail sticking out, you can spend a lot of points on including it but you're restricted elsewhere. Similar to this, you could use a 150 square stud area limit (no overlap) but it doesn't have to start 8x8 - you can go have a square one or long and thin. Alternatively to limit vig sizes, a piece count could be imposed. :-(

N.B. Extra square stud area and piece counts can be purchased from me. X-D

[MasterKenobi]

Great vigs you all build!

I entered my vig some minutes ago...it