[KEY TOPIC] LDD 3 bugs and brick errors

[Superkalle]

Hmm... I found this out a long time ago. I thought it was already posted, so I didn't bother.

BTW, I found some more errors:

1) No pieces can fit on this piece in a certain location (don't know how to describe it)

2) Bricks can't fit in on the last stud of the outer rows inside the wall of this piece.

I was trying to build 3222 and I couldn't because of these problems.

Well, there you go.

I found the problem on 2). Great spotting. Reported to TLG!

On 1) I'm not sure I understand. If you have problems attaching a brick, sometime you need to rotate the model slightly to get it to stick because the brick is trying to attach to the underside.

[prateek]

On 1) I'm not sure I understand. If you have problems attaching a brick, sometime you need to rotate the model slightly to get it to stick because the brick is trying to attach to the underside.

Okay, I'll post a pic later.

[prateek]

Here ya go Superkalle:

No 2x? pieces can fit over this ledge.

[Superkalle]

No 2x? pieces can fit over this ledge.

Excellent. Reported to TLG....lot of work for them now!

[Zerobricks]

The clutch gear can go too deep in beams.

Upper how far it should go, the lower how far it actually goes:

[Toa_Of_Justice]

I tried to build the new Space Police Rapid Responder (Club Code: SPACE), and this connection...

...seems impossible in LDD...

...but becomes very possible with a bunch of 1x1 round plates.

Here is the LXF file, with a few slight differences from the instructions (no stickers, added minifig and control panel).

-Toa Of Justice

[Superkalle]

I tried to build the new Space Police Rapid Responder (Club Code: SPACE), and this connection...

...seems impossible in LDD...

Yeah, it's a well known problem. It seem TLG (or rather design lab at LEGO) aren't yet sure how to handle this type of connection. Normally they won't allow connecting more then one stud to a technic hole. This is because technic holes are slightly smaller then normal anti-stud holes, and the tighter fit would lead to that kids cannot take them off. But apperantly from the example you found, Lego designers chose to break the Lego Legal principles when it suits them. Very annoying for us LDD builders indeed.

The clutch gear can go too deep in beams.

I reported this to TLG!

[BrickWild]

I tried uploading a model with buyable bricks and no non-buyable bricks to my DBM gallery in DBM mode but it activate the buyabilty tool and when I click yes, it uploads model and then, it freezes!

[tiammath]

I tried uploading a model with buyable bricks and no non-buyable bricks to my DBM gallery in DBM mode but it activate the buyabilty tool and when I click yes, it uploads model and then, it freezes!

Same here

[roamingstop]

This is because technic holes are slightly smaller then normal anti-stud holes, and the tighter fit would lead to that kids cannot take them off. But apperantly from the example you found, Lego designers chose to break the Lego Legal principles when it suits them.

True... but what I would say is in this example the leverage of the pieces mean it would be possible for kids to easily break apart. A small 1xn plate in a technic brick would be most tiresome, but larger pieces which have offsets, or 3D parts which can be easily held may be allowed, but only when the design cannot be done in another way?....

[Superkalle]

True... but what I would say is in this example the leverage of the pieces mean it would be possible for kids to easily break apart.

Exactly! In this case, it would be a legal technique since the leverage allows kids to take it appart. But then there might be the issues of putting them on (much force needed). That's why it's extra strange to see it in a Space Police set, which is very much directed towards kids.

[tiammath]

I just noticed another weird connection. Bricks connect, no illegal connection, but aren't aligned if you look close enough.

[Superkalle]

I just noticed another weird connection. Bricks connect, no illegal connection, but aren't aligned if you look close enough.

Well, these things happen from time to time. Most often when you've been playing around with the bricks for a while trying different combinations, and most often when you have a hinge or other type of joint involved. LDD has a bit of slack allowed in the connection, because otherwise even the slightest missmatch would make the bricks fail to connect, and it would drive all of us nuts

If you rebuild the structure from scratch, it will all connect nicely.

[tiammath]

Ok. Thanks Superkalle.

[Calabar]

Impossible to connect minifig legs upper part to slope brick 45 2x2 inverted bottom part as it happens in 10216 Winter Village Bakery.

[Superkalle]

Impossible to connect minifig legs upper part to slope brick 45 2x2 inverted bottom part as it happens in 10216 Winter Village Bakery.

Thanks for that one. Well spotted

[prateek]

Thanks for that one. Well spotted

Doesn't this apply for any bricks?

[ghyde]

Thanks for that one. Well spotted

Does TLG know about the the problem with minifig legs not fitting correctly in the situation where you stack one 2x2 plate or brick on top of another and then try to place a minifig legs facing toes towards the stacked 2x2 plate? This problem also occurs with any possible combination of plates or bricks.

I think they do, but if they want it submitted let me know.

Also, does TLG plan on fixing gears in LDD 4.0 so that they can be properly and usefully used to make models that can slide or turn to open? I would also like to see available in the DesignByMe palette the following Technic gear:

http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?P=3743

The reason why is simple: For a while now I have wanted to make a model that can slide one part off the base however without the addition of a gear rack element to interact with a gear (any gear will do) it's a very tedious process to build a workaround that works on a totally different principle! This would also make stackable container yard scenes in LDD very easy to make, because with the addition of the above gear rack to the palette, one could very easily make a crane gantry!

I do thank TLG higher-ups for allowing the DesignByMe team to add two gears to the palette, this enables gear reductions! However, to make better and larger reductions, could they please consider one or more extra gear sizes?

One thing I would like for TLG to consider is an expander option in LDD:

How this would work is fairly simple, if the person using LDD owns a set or element, this can be added to a "personal collection" file, and LDD does not consider elements in colors that are in that personal file to be elements which need to be "buyable" from DesignByMe, but does consider them normally in all other respects when building a model.

It would be similar to how a database works, but it only tracks the element type ,color, quantity for elements available for use in LDD under certain circumstances, the person using LDD is responsible to update properly their elements lists. For young kids, a message could be added to ask for parental help and guidance counting the number of elements a kid owns. Make that a toggle option in the user preferences, and it should be a great addition to LDD!.

Regarding the certain circumstances the elements should be able to meet at least one of the following conditions and maybe more:

Element has been used in LDD previously or is currently used in LDD.

Element is in use in current production runs in at least one set.

Element is not expected to be discontinued or removed by TLG due to design inconsistencies which would make it incompatible with LDD.

Element has not been tied to a branded product agreement where such agreement would prohibit the part appearing in LDD. This is in case the owners of any branded lines TLG would bring out would like parts specific to the branded line excluded.

That's all I have to add for now, many thanks for reading, apologies if this post is a bit long!

Cheers ...

Geoffrey Hyde

[Superkalle]

Hi there

Lot's of excellent ideas. I'll answer two of them

Does TLG know about the the problem with minifig legs not fitting correctly in the situation where you stack one 2x2 plate or brick on top of another and then try to place a minifig legs facing toes towards the stacked 2x2 plate?

Yupp, they know well about it.

Also, does TLG plan on fixing gears in LDD 4.0 so that they can be properly and usefully used to make models that can slide or turn to open? I would also like to see available in the DesignByMe palette the following Technic gear:

Most likely no mechanically engaging/moving technic gears in 4.0. But hopefully a few more gears, and fixes on the ones that are.

Doesn't this apply for any bricks?

Yes, but there may be rules that it only attaches to a 1x2 brick, or a 2x2 inverted slope. When I report them to TLG I include a copy of the instruction page, and then they will have to decide if it's a legal method for all bricks, or just for the one in the particular example.

But, you are right Prateek. I'll widen the scope when I report this, and we'll see what happens.

[ghyde]

Hi there

Lot's of excellent ideas. I'll answer two of them

Yupp, they know well about it.

Most likely no mechanically engaging/moving technic gears in 4.0. But hopefully a few more gears, and fixes on the ones that are.

Good to hear! Although I should point out that the gear rack part I linked to on BrickLink is useful for more than just gears, it can also be useful for large radiator fins too!

LDD already can understand parts that move directly as a result of turning a pin element if you anchor one of them. It really shouldn't be that much more difficult to get it to figure out what a gear will make a model do.

I tried once to make a model of a sliding lock. But this was a little too complicated for LDD - I don't think it's been programmed to find parts that slide and rotate at the same time. That shouldn't be too hard.

There was a neat animation I saw on the internet once that showed how cranks and gears could make various kinds of linear motions very easily. Just by putting them in the right places and lengths they could easily make a lot of different motions. If they can get this into LDD I could do quite a few motions.

They also need a gravity system for LDD where a direction is "down", can be seen, turned on/off, and has a reasonably real-world effect on objects as tiny as 1x1 pin with stud on end. One of my favourite LEGO projects is to try and build a hopper that feeds a conveyor. But I've run into the problem at the moment that the real model can be tipped up so far with a few parts coming out, them WHOOSH! the entire remainder of the contents will suddenly and immediately exit together! Which means I suddenly have to design a conveyor that can handle the entire hopper input at once! Not easy! This project is simple enough, it tries to count large quantities of a single element or grade by size random LEGO elements.

Some time ago, there was a post on a site that implied LDD was going to be incorporating some really good physics engine from another company - do you know if this was canceled or if it will go ahead eventually?

Cheers ...

ghyde

Edited September 21, 2010 by ghyde

[Superkalle]

LDD already can understand parts that move directly as a result of turning a pin element if you anchor one of them. It really shouldn't be that much more difficult to get it to figure out what a gear will make a model do.

Well, you're right that LDD can understand simple hinge type connections, for example to move multi-link Technic systems. But for complicated mechanical animations, it doesn't work. The only solutoin is to change to a physics engine (which likely has gravity out of the box). The engine in LDD today is from Havok, which is very much game oriented. If there will be a more physics oriented engine in the future I don't know.

[Zerobricks]

The 1x4 gear rack is in LU mode. Wish we had a better physics engine too, like the one in half life 2

Edited September 21, 2010 by Zblj

[Lego Otaku]

Any reason I'm not allowed to put a lid on a 2x2 barrel? It's used in a lot of manual but no matter how I tried, the round 2x2 plate never fits on top of the barrel. Every time I try to move the 2x2 round plate onto the barrel, LDD tries to place it under the barrel. I tried flipping both barrel and plate and tried sitting the barrel on top of the plate, LDD tries t place the barrel below the plate!!!

If it was an illegal design, then some 100's of instruction broke that rule

[Zerobricks]

Any reason I'm not allowed to put a lid on a 2x2 barrel? It's used in a lot of manual but no matter how I tried, the round 2x2 plate never fits on top of the barrel. Every time I try to move the 2x2 round plate onto the barrel, LDD tries to place it under the barrel. I tried flipping both barrel and plate and tried sitting the barrel on top of the plate, LDD tries t place the barrel below the plate!!!

If it was an illegal design, then some 100's of instruction broke that rule

You can use trick by building structure arround can in which the lid attaches.

[private_lego]

Tricks are alright, but LDD should allow to build all official instructions.