Maintaining 12v Motors?

[Rob Klingberg]

Hello all--

This is my first post on Eurobricks, and I'm a newcomer to the world of Lego trains (for the last 30 years, I've focused on collecting G-Scale LGB trains). I'm building a collection of 9v and 12v trains, and lately I've been drawn to the older 12v sets and parts, primarily because of the control options available with the 12v line.

I've noticed that many of my 12v motors, while they are in good condition, need a little help getting started after they've been sitting awhile (overnight, etc.). I need to push the engines to get the motors moving. After about 3 minutes on the track, they run fine, but I'm wondering if any maintenance (greasing, etc.) is needed (or even possible) with the older 12v motors. What's the general opinion about this? I know my LGB motors need a little fresh greade every 10 years or so, but looking at the 12v Lego motors, it's not even clear they can (or should) be disassembled for maintenance.

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated, thank you all!

--Rob

[Andy Glascott]

Hi Rob, and welcome to EB! I've had 12v motors for pushing 25 years and never once done any maintenance to them, though they did only have sporadic use for a few years.

Mine have the same issue occasionally, taking a few minutes of pushing to get going. I put it down to dirt collecting on the conducting rials and/or pick-up shoes that wears off after a couple of minutes. I aim to run mine at least once a week for 10 minutes or so, and by doing that it generally eliminates the need to push etc at the beginning.

There are others on here with far more wisdom and knowledge than I, so they may well offer other advice

Andy

[gwilisandt]

.

Edited February 4, 2015 by gwilisandt

[BillytheKid]

Never use 13v, the motors wouldn't like that. That 1 volt is that horrible......

Clean the innertrack with alcohol or wasbenzine (don't know the proper english word for it). I use a train with 2x 12v motor connected with a wire. In that way the train has 4 connecting points with the inner track. I let run these train a little time and then the single motors will tun also fine. But it's important, you clean the innertrack and the connecting points of the motor itself.

[simonwillems]

I keep my ever growing 12v collection in my bedroom and I can for sure say it is dust that keeps the motors from starting up. After every night's sleep I need to push my trains.

But I have one motor that only really picks up it's desired speed after six laps of track, squeeking from the inside... Still, it's among the best systems Lego ever designed, with all the remote controlled points, signals, railroadcrossings and decoupling units!

Never use 13v, the motors wouldn't like that. That 1 volt is that horrible......

Oh yes it is! I accidentally connected one of my motors to the 13v output last week. The noise was terrifying and one of the holes in the plastic casket where the connecting knobs stick through is now significantly enlarged...

[Rob Klingberg]

Thanks everyone for your help! I'm glad I didn't try to open one of my motors before contacting you all.

Thanks also for the RELCO tip-- I had never heard of this device or this high-voltage technology but I did some research yesterday and found some old RELCO units on eBay. Coincidentally, I also received an order yesterday from Miniatronics (great electronics hobby resource if you've never heard of them btw) and they have a similar product to the RELCO unit:

Miniatronics Electrak

Much pricier than the RELCO units, but maybe uses newer technology?

I plan to spend some time cleaning my inner rails, and I'll also make some extra time for pushing to get my trains rolling. Thanks again for the advice!

--Rob

[gwilisandt]

.

Edited February 4, 2015 by gwilisandt

[BillytheKid]

I realized later, de 13v is alternating current electricity and the 12v is direct current electricity. That's why the 12v won't work and can damage the 12 motors.

What you mean the power the cleaning unit at 13AC?

[hoeij]

I've noticed that many of my 12v motors, while they are in good condition, need a little help getting started after they've been sitting awhile (overnight, etc.). I need to push the engines to get the motors moving. After about 3 minutes on the track, they run fine, but I'm wondering if any maintenance (greasing, etc.) is needed (or even possible) with the older 12v motors. What's the general opinion about this? I know my LGB motors need a little fresh greade every 10 years or so, but looking at the 12v Lego motors, it's not even clear they can (or should) be disassembled for maintenance.

Any help or guidance would be much appreciated, thank you all!

--Rob

I've bought a number of 12V motors over the last couple of years, and I opened up half of them because they needed lubrication. They're difficult to open, but the lubrication did make them run much better. Some of the motors, before lubrication, would not start moving until there was 6 volt on the track. Now they all move with as little as 2 volt.

After about 3 minutes on the track, they run fine,

Actually, that sounds like the track needs cleaning. Dirty track can explain why the train has troubles in the beginning but runs better after a while.

12V track needs cleaning, because if you don't, then the train might not start moving when you turn on the electricity.

Unfortunately, it gets dirty quite quickly. And it's not the dirt that you can see that blocks the electricity, it's the dirt that you can't see.

[horizon]

Heya,

sorry for the old death thread arise, but better then a new topic, right?

Last weekend my 4yr old son wanted to see my old Lego train in action. The old 7740.

While some rail connections snapped due the years ( :( ), all other things seemed fine.

Started it up, build a quick model. The thing ran dozens of laps, gaining speed etc.

But suddenly.... stop. Nothing. Thing stopped running.

I only connected the main wire, so no extras for lights, stops, changes etc.

Now the engines makes a humming sound on the track but doesn't move. So it does get power, but it also drops down, then picks up again but never moves.

I cleaned a few tracks (alcohol) to make it shiny but this didn't help. However, the connectors on the engine are very brown-ish/ not shiny (so to say).

Could this be the issue?

Or could the trafo be melted?

[harnbak]

To me it sounds as if someting blocks inside the motor and it must be opened and cleaned.

Take one step at the time:

1) Verify that the trafo works by connecting a 12v light brick* directly to the output and 'run'.

2) Verify that the motor works by connecting it directly to tested trafo and 'run'.

3) Verify that the conductors work by connecting the conductors to the trafo, putting the motor on the tracks and 'run'.

If my hypothesis is correct, I expect only 1) to succeed and the motor needs to be opened. This should be done with the utmost care as you basically destroy the housing. Have lubricant and glue ready. See here for more info: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50345&view=findpost&p=893107.

*Instead of light brick, you can use an ordinary multimeter.

Edited December 13, 2011 by harnbak

[horizon]

To me it sounds as if someting blocks inside the motor and it must be opened and cleaned.

Take one step at the time:

1) Verify that the trafo works by connecting a 12v light brick* directly to the output and 'run'.

2) Verify that the motor works by connecting it directly to tested trafo and 'run'.

3) Verify that the conductors work by connecting the conductors to the trafo, putting the motor on the tracks and 'run'.

If my hypothesis is correct, I expect only 1) to succeed and the motor needs to be opened. This should be done with the utmost care as you basically destroy the housing. Have lubricant and glue ready. See here for more info: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=50345&view=findpost&p=893107.

*Instead of light brick, you can use an ordinary multimeter.

Hey,thanks for all of that, the light test is a smart one.

Breaking the engine, ouch, ah well, I can almost break down and build up my real life Miata so a Lego train should work as well.... right? :)

[hoeij]

I cleaned a few tracks (alcohol) to make it shiny but this didn't help. However, the connectors on the engine are very brown-ish/ not shiny (so to say).

Could this be the issue?

I have quite a few 12V motors, and all of them have connectors that are very brown-ish/ not shiny. So that's not the issue.

If a motor hasn't been used in a long time, then usually it runs slowly the first couple of laps, and gradually gets faster. Somehow, the act of running electricity through it makes it conduct electricity better (the Ohm resistance drops measurably after some use).

So it looked like the motor was doing what it was supposed to do. It's quite mysterious why it would then suddenly stop. Do you have something other than the 12V controller than can produce a DC voltage, so you can check the motor by sticking wires into it? Anywhere between 4 and 12V is OK. Make sure it is DC (indicated with =) never use AC (indicated with ~).

[Merkurius]

Regarding the horrible "last volt".. I have 3 trafos 7864, and yesterday i checked the numbers of volts on them. At full speed they all reached 13-14 volts, and the static socket for lights, controls and so on, delivered 15 volt steadily! Is something wrong? Can i use my motors without damaging them?

[Sokratesz]

Regarding the horrible "last volt".. I have 3 trafos 7864, and yesterday i checked the numbers of volts on them. At full speed they all reached 13-14 volts, and the static socket for lights, controls and so on, delivered 15 volt steadily! Is something wrong? Can i use my motors without damaging them?

The voltage will drop as soon as you start connecting lights and motors to those lines. The speed control output should drop to 7 volts or so with 4 connected motors.

- Sok.