Best Lock Wild West Sets

[WesternOutlaw]

At my local Toys R Us yesterday, I was walking through the "building section" and noticed a Wild West set. I picked it up realizing that the set was a western fort made by Best Lock. After researching the set on the web, it appears that Best Lock has an Old Wild West theme that reminds me of Lego Wild West. The fort has the red roofs resembling Fort Legoredo. I've attached one image and a link to a few additional sets. Now I wish Lego would bring back this theme!

Best-Lock Western Sets

[Mister Phes]

That structure dangerously looks similiar to part of Fort Legorado! The Brickster, how do you feel when you see other brick manfacturers product sets that LEGO probably should be producing themselves? Do you think its great and buy them? Are you indifferent? Or are you annoyed that another company is taking the initiative while LEGO goes and invests in a Sponge Bob licence...?

[WesternOutlaw]

I think you should become a talk show host Phes. You'd be good at it.

To answer your questions though, pretty much indifferent. The Best Lock set definately looks like a copy of Legoredo (or at least a section), but it doesn't annoy or bother me. I don't buy any sets that aren't Lego. Maybe when Lego realizes that they should go back to the basics and not the licenses, they'll bring back great themes. On the issue of Sponge Bob, they're not bad sets, they just don't appeal to me. The little Easter Island statue looks neat though (I can see this as a great addition to a Pirate Island). The issue with the license sets is that they're not "timeless" like castle, pirate, western, train, city, etc. They're popular for a short while because of a movie, then they fizzle out; somewhat like kid's interest in cheap toys.

But I'd love to see Lego making new Wild West sets; but I seriously doubt it, as westerns aren't popular in film anymore (except for a recent film that I won't even mention). Overall though, I think Lego tries to offer a diverse collection of sets to market to all of us (I just wish they'd bring back more of the sets from the 80s and 90s). I know you'd love to see a resurrection of the classic pirate sets, as would I.

[Deinonychus]

So, has the quality of the Best Lock sets gone up any recently, or are they still sort of cheesey and poorly designed?

[snefroe]

i'm not really upset because of these sets, but i'm not happy with it either. it clearly indicates that other companies in the construction business think there is a market for those sets, but for some reason, it seems lego doesn't agree with this... As a wild west fan, tho not a hardcore fan, i feel frustrated, especially when you get all sorts of lego sets/themes that do not interest me at all... You can't help but wonder what lego could have produced of wild west sets over the years if they had continued the line. We also never had any decent explenation for dropping the wild west line... In any case, others are producing sets lego could easily build themself... yes, it is frustrating...

[Mister Phes]

I was looking through the some LEGO catalogues from 1996 - 1999 and came to a realisation. During this period there was an explosion of LEGO themes but only Western, Adventurers (excluding the Dino sub-theme) and Ninja were the only decent ones.

Western must have been popular enough to warrant the 2001 re-releases considering that none of the other themes that sprang up in the mid 90's had any re-releases - unless there's some sets I've missed.

As for Best-Lock... Are the bricks comptabile with LEGO bricks? If so, adding to Mr Deinonychus's would they be suitable for combing with LEGO bricks? Obviously the horses and figures are going to be unsuitable but I'd be wondering if anything can be salvaged out of them for LEGO MOCs.

[The Hordesman]

I was wondering since Best-lock weapons and the like are usable by minifigs, are the headgear that too? I was going to check on customization network but that section is down...

Indeed, the set is awfully like the Fort Legoredo. No wonder why Lego grinds all clonebricks coming into europe...

[WesternOutlaw]

Two thoughts on the discontinuation of the Wild West theme from two different Lego web pages; both individuals make good points as to why Lego may have discontinued the theme:

Wild west is the third historical subtheme (the first based on American history). I personally think that the designs were well done and would like to see more. LEGO has taken another step away from their non-military policy. Some of the minifigs are obvious civil war era Union soldiers with modern looking rifles (where are the Confederates?) What do kids do with these guys? They have shoot-outs, of course. The only step left would be a 20th century military theme and I hope that LEGO will stay away from that (besides it gives people on r.t.l. something to design themselves). The Native American sets that came out in 1997 were designed with some sensitivity. The minifigs seem to have been designed to avoid a degrading image. Also there are no cavalry figures included as enemies (as was common in the pirate sets) which I think was an attempt to avoid the stereotypical Cowboys and Indians conflict image. Children will do this themselves as long as they have two sets but I think that the avoidance of the "Indian wars" might have sacrificed some commercial popularity. The wild west theme might have the same limitations in finding new subthemes as pirates. I will be sad if LEGO abandons wild west like they did pirates. They could continue with a "Lewis and Clark" explorer subtheme or (I would like to see) a "settlers" subtheme. I don't think that there will be such a thing because common people seem to be regarded as boring (witness the lack of peasants in castle, and the surplus of police, firemen, race car drivers and pilots in town). Of course there wouldn't be much wrong with simply coming up with some more "ordinary" wild west sets. And, of course, the wild west theme simply isn't complete without a train!

Erik's old rec.toys.lego

This is the authors own opinion, but in short I believe that the theme was canceled because of a crowded market. There are plenty of reasons a theme gets cancelled, lack of interest, poor sales, time limit, but each of these can be applied to other themes that are still in production. The Wild West had to compete with several brand new themes, Ninja, Adventurers, STAR WARS! (the best selling theme ever according to lego) as well as the pre existing market (at the time saturated with almost 5 different space themes) it's a wonder that any theme sold well with all of the competition from the same company. However I'm grateful that the theme existed and I had the opportunity to play while it lasted.

StickyBrix - Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?

[Mister Phes]

StickyBrix does have a good point with competition within The LEGO Company's on products, however the last year of Western was 1998 and Star Wars didn't arrive until 1999 so at the point Western was cancelled Star Wars couldn't have been the most popular theme of all time or even a competitor. Aside from Ninja and Adventurers there were a dozen rather crap themes that didn't go anywhere, so perhaps if The LEGO Company focused on developing the stronger themes like Western, Adventurers and Ninja (ah yes, and not have cancelled pirates) these themes could have become even better and stronger.

But anyways, I'm still curious to know how LEGO comptaible Best-Lock is...

[Deinonychus]

I was looking through the some LEGO catalogues from 1996 - 1999 and came to a realisation. During this period there was an explosion of LEGO themes but only Western, Adventurers (excluding the Dino sub-theme) and Ninja were the only decent ones.

Western must have been popular enough to warrant the 2001 re-releases considering that none of the other themes that sprang up in the mid 90's had any re-releases - unless there's some sets I've missed.

As for Best-Lock... Are the bricks comptabile with LEGO bricks? If so, adding to Mr Deinonychus's would they be suitable for combing with LEGO bricks? Obviously the horses and figures are going to be unsuitable but I'd be wondering if anything can be salvaged out of them for LEGO MOCs.

Best-Lock bricks are compatable with LEGO bricks. However, unlike Megabloks, they are very different in design and don't mesh very well with LEGOs. I'll add pics when brickshelf comes back up (seems to be down at the moment)

One thing that's obvious is Best-Locks are not as tall and the studs are slightly bigger around. Also, instead of the round structures in the bottom, they have grooves and slots.

[snefroe]

Two thoughts on the discontinuation of the Wild West theme from two different Lego web pages; both individuals make good points as to why Lego may have discontinued the theme:

Wild west is the third historical subtheme (the first based on American history). I personally think that the designs were well done and would like to see more. LEGO has taken another step away from their non-military policy. Some of the minifigs are obvious civil war era Union soldiers with modern looking rifles (where are the Confederates?) What do kids do with these guys? They have shoot-outs, of course. The only step left would be a 20th century military theme and I hope that LEGO will stay away from that (besides it gives people on r.t.l. something to design themselves). The Native American sets that came out in 1997 were designed with some sensitivity. The minifigs seem to have been designed to avoid a degrading image. Also there are no cavalry figures included as enemies (as was common in the pirate sets) which I think was an attempt to avoid the stereotypical Cowboys and Indians conflict image. Children will do this themselves as long as they have two sets but I think that the avoidance of the "Indian wars" might have sacrificed some commercial popularity. The wild west theme might have the same limitations in finding new subthemes as pirates. I will be sad if LEGO abandons wild west like they did pirates. They could continue with a "Lewis and Clark" explorer subtheme or (I would like to see) a "settlers" subtheme. I don't think that there will be such a thing because common people seem to be regarded as boring (witness the lack of peasants in castle, and the surplus of police, firemen, race car drivers and pilots in town). Of course there wouldn't be much wrong with simply coming up with some more "ordinary" wild west sets. And, of course, the wild west theme simply isn't complete without a train!

Erik's old rec.toys.lego

This is the authors own opinion, but in short I believe that the theme was canceled because of a crowded market. There are plenty of reasons a theme gets cancelled, lack of interest, poor sales, time limit, but each of these can be applied to other themes that are still in production. The Wild West had to compete with several brand new themes, Ninja, Adventurers, STAR WARS! (the best selling theme ever according to lego) as well as the pre existing market (at the time saturated with almost 5 different space themes) it's a wonder that any theme sold well with all of the competition from the same company. However I'm grateful that the theme existed and I had the opportunity to play while it lasted.

StickyBrix - Where Have All the Cowboys Gone?

i find both arguments not convincing at all.

1) the "we're scared our sets may increase intolerance, so we're not doing this set or that set", just doesn't cut it. I think lego overestimates her own influence on their buyers. Parents and media are far more important for that. I played with playmobile when i was a kid. i had Indians and cowboys, cannons, forts, whatever... i sent those figs to war many times... it didn't have any effect whatsoever on my behaviour as a kid, living in an open society and a dominating US-culture... sure, it's clear that lego tries to avoid to have sets where minifigs fight minifigs in a realisic context, but the main theme of WW, to my knoledge, was getting bank robbers,...

2) It seems to me the theory is incorrect. Ninja nor Adventures stayed on for many years after the demise of wild west, they clearly didn't take over WW's market share/sales. Lego's position didn't improve either, to my knoledge. they just lost even more. it seems to me that lego just lost the WW fans to other companies, other toys. Besides, WW probably didn't compete with space or town and wouldn't have been in competition with sw. they are just too different branches...

However, perhaps the company decided to cut costs in general by dumping a theme, not expecting that the other themes would just take over. Wild west would have been the obvious choice if sales of all themes were bad, because the other themes sold globally, WW most likely only in the US.

[Mister Phes]

Just look at the Batman theme - there's automatic weapons in those sets! The LEGO Company can't be too concerned about kids having "shoot outs" with modern weapons. But there have been gun accessories in other toys for ever and a day, so why do some people think its such a big deal in LEGO sets? Is it because they assume The LEGO Company is trying to promote a peaceful image by avoidance of implements that depict destruction in their sets? Does this non Military Policy actually exist or did some disillusioned fan invent the concept out of confusion then it proflierated into the LEGO communities and has since become a common misconception?

[Deinonychus]

As promised:

Sorry I couldn't find a standard 2X4 Best-lock brick, but I only have a couple sets (it's more then enough :P)

As you can see, from the top the differences are mainly in the logoing. The red LEGO brick has the LEGO branding on the studs, while the gray Megablok has it's logo on the brick surface. The Best-Lock brick has no branding.

Here's where one of the big differences is noticable. The LEGO and Megablok are almost identical (and I apologize for the hard to see black) and the Best-Lock brick has grooves instead of rounded structures.

From the side you can see the shorter height of the Best-Lock brick, as well as the tiny difference in the diameter of the studs.

But, as noted, they all stick together well.

For my money, LEGOs are the hands-down best. Megabloks a close second. But I really dislike my Best-Lock sets. The only real reason I could see for getting one would be a unique piece to use in a MOC. Otherwise you're better off making due with what you can find on ebay or bricklink for interesting themes

[snefroe]

As promised:

Sorry I couldn't find a standard 2X4 Best-lock brick, but I only have a couple sets (it's more then enough :P)

As you can see, from the top the differences are mainly in the logoing. The red LEGO brick has the LEGO branding on the studs, while the gray Megablok has it's logo on the brick surface. The Best-Lock brick has no branding.

Here's where one of the big differences is noticable. The LEGO and Megablok are almost identical (and I apologize for the hard to see black) and the Best-Lock brick has grooves instead of rounded structures.

From the side you can see the shorter height of the Best-Lock brick, as well as the tiny difference in the diameter of the studs.

But, as noted, they all stick together well.

For my money, LEGOs are the hands-down best. Megabloks a close second. But I really dislike my Best-Lock sets. The only real reason I could see for getting one would be a unique piece to use in a MOC. Otherwise you're better off making due with what you can find on ebay or bricklink for interesting themes

i don't understand that commercial law accepts "best-lock" as a different concept to what lego has. best lock is clearly copying the lego system and in fact, is so close to the original danish brick that i would consider it to be a violation of copyrights...

[WesternOutlaw]

Personally, I never figured out how Mega Bricks and all the other "cheap brick-making companies" were able to get away with copying Lego's basic brick design. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they clearly copied Lego. Then you see sets like the Best Lock fort and you can see how they copied the concept and colors. But it's Lego's quality that keeps these bricks apart, and I don't care how neat the set looks (like Mega Block's Pirates and Dragons and these Old Wild West sets), I won't buy them unless they're Lego.

[Mister Phes]

Where is the evidence LEGO copyrighted the patent on their bricks in the first place? Everyone seems to assume they have, but is that yet another common LEGO misconception?

[Berry Syedow]

Where is the evidence LEGO copyrighted the patent on their bricks in the first place? Everyone seems to assume they have, but is that yet another common LEGO misconception?

According to this: ((http://osgoode.yorku.ca/media2.nsf/0/521e908ca102e419852570c800514245?OpenDocument) Watch out, that guy is extremely biased!), the LEGO Company's last patent expired in 1988. This article provides a reason as to why the LEGO Company lost the case to Megabloks in the first place: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Bloks). The basic gist is that because none of the LEGO Company's patents are any longer valid other companies are free to capitalize on their product design. And, as a patent is reserved for functionality, filing suit against another company on the terms of trademark is not viable. :-/

(By the way Mr. Phes, do you know what's happened to the Piratebricks forum?)

[WesternOutlaw]

I think Lego has been around a lot longer than Mega Blocks and Best Lock. These are new companies in comparison.

But Lego has become a trade name- just like Xerox and Kleenex. When you think of a toy brick, one thinks of Lego. They've got years of history making these bricks, and unless the others improve their quality drastically, Lego will always have the hearts of all of us. To me, the others are just cheap copies (regardless of the model). And that includes Wild West sets.

The one good thing is that maybe Lego will "jump on the horse" and give us another Wild West theme to compete. We may even see Classic Pirates sooner than we think with all the Mega Block Pirate sets filling the toy store shelves. Competition is good.

[Mister Phes]

According to this: ((http://osgoode.yorku.ca/media2.nsf/0/521e908ca102e419852570c800514245?OpenDocument) Watch out, that guy is extremely biased!), the LEGO Company's last patent expired in 1988. This article provides a reason as to why the LEGO Company lost the case to Megabloks in the first place: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mega_Bloks). The basic gist is that because none of the LEGO Company's patents are any longer valid other companies are free to capitalize on their product design. And, as a patent is reserved for functionality, filing suit against another company on the terms of trademark is not viable. :-/

If The LEGO Company's last patent expired in 1988 that would definitely explain why all these imitation brands have arrisen in the past decade. However, I have TYCO Bricks predating 1988 (I think I got them circa 1984) and they are almost identical to LEGO bricks and the quality is just as good. So these imitation brands have always existed but perhaps some of us here are too young to be aware they existed, or maybe the older members have just forgotten about them.

(By the way Mr. Phes, do you know what's happened to the Piratebricks forum?)

No idea, but when I went there it looks like its been completely removed. Maybe they're upgrading to a new version of the forum or having a major overhaul.

[Berry Syedow]

Hmm, well in another article I found concerning the Tyco brand blocks it does mention a "basic patent" of the LEGO Company that expired in 1983: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyco_Toys) Their quality is indeed top notch, but their color schemes were a little funky. (I have a large sum of purple, pink, and orange Tyco blocks somewhere in the house...)

Edit: Date mishap

[Mister Phes]

So the LEGO Brick patent could have expired as early as 1983, rather than 1988 which can't really be confirm as the source may lack accuracy. If Wikipedia is correct then that's a more believable explaination than the fellow who said 1988.

Mr Syedow you are very thorough in your research so you deserve a big fat "WELL DONE!!!"

[snefroe]

Personally, I never figured out how Mega Bricks and all the other "cheap brick-making companies" were able to get away with copying Lego's basic brick design. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they clearly copied Lego. Then you see sets like the Best Lock fort and you can see how they copied the concept and colors. But it's Lego's quality that keeps these bricks apart, and I don't care how neat the set looks (like Mega Block's Pirates and Dragons and these Old Wild West sets), I won't buy them unless they're Lego.

I think a Canadian court ruled in favour of the Canadian "Mega blocks"... hm... I think lego should be knocking on WTO's doors or file a complaint at the EU court... However, this type of ruling is always a risc, because it's all about perception. It's one guy who has to decide if two bricks are based on the same concept or not...

I can understand that a judge would accept that the "studs" on top of a brick to build things is a concept, free for any company to use. What i would not accept is the fact that all the other companies are using the same scale, making it extremely easy for the uninformed customer to make a mistake and go home with a best lock set instead of a lego set...

So the LEGO Brick patent could have expired as early as 1983, rather than 1988 which can't really be confirm as the source may lack accuracy. If Wikipedia is correct then that's a more believable explaination than the fellow who said 1988.

Mr Syedow you are very thorough in your research so you deserve a big fat "WELL DONE!!!"

i wonder. how 'bout the patent for the minifig? that can't be more than 30 years old, so surely that's still in the hands of lego, right?

[canadianD]

now i don't know all the factiods like everyone else here (i didn't do my homework :-D ) but does mega bloks :-X plastic seem like action figure plastic. the other day i was building something (i build so much its hard to remember what i build) and i was searching for a black peice and mega bloks always writes "MEGA BLOKS" on their bricks but with black you can't tell what it is. any way i found ecsactly the right peice but when i put it on to the other bricks it didin't go on so i swore and cused about mega bloks. then i thought up something, it feels like the plastic in my old batman action figures (from when i was like 6 which was 7 years ago) so i want any body's opinion what do you guys think.

i also think the big thing with WW's demise and adventurers :'-( was SW. now i like star wars as much as the next person- heck i love it i own books out the wazoo about star wars, i read it everyday but kids really enjoy it including me but- like brickster said its something that will fizzle out even though i don't think SW will ever fizzle out only some of there sets like the battle packs wil. something happened the other day a friend of mine who likes lego probably as much as everyone else in this forum pulled out 4 clone and CIS battle packs and he said "do you want these for 5 bucks i have like a million of them" (i did take them cause i like the little speeders in them) but this gave me some hope that classic lego sets can come back an not just classic castle or town but pirates and WW and hopefully adventurers :-) . (woooh i'm out of breath).