Super Mega Steam Power Train Builder-- LEGO(R) IDEAS(tm)

[James Mathis]

Building on our collective history with LEGO trains and passion for creating our own MOCs, I present what I hope could become another entry into the future of LEGO trains by providing something historically relevant. Inspired by the classic 12v gray-era sets, the multi-build fan-community collaboration 10183 Hobby Train set, and the multi-build Santa Fe Superchief cars, this Super Mega set could deliver over 1,700 train parts in steam, as well as red and dark green, to build not only a variety of in-box creations, but stock your collection with desirable parts for your own MOCs.

I hope you like the modular, snap-together, reconfigurable design. I'm sure there are a lot of MOCs to unlock in this assortment of 1,700 pieces. Thanks for your support if you like it, as well as any comments and suggestions for improvement.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/86744

Aloha,

James Mathis

[nils]

Building on our collective history with LEGO trains and passion for creating our own MOCs, I present what I hope could become another entry into the future of LEGO trains by providing something historically relevant. Inspired by the classic 12v gray-era sets, the multi-build fan-community collaboration 10183 Hobby Train set, and the multi-build Santa Fe Superchief cars, this Super Mega set could deliver over 1,700 train parts in steam, as well as red and dark green, to build not only a variety of in-box creations, but stock your collection with desirable parts for your own MOCs.

I hope you like the modular, snap-together, reconfigurable design. I'm sure there are a lot of MOCs to unlock in this assortment of 1,700 pieces. Thanks for your support if you like it, as well as any comments and suggestions for improvement.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/86744

Aloha,

James Mathis

A great idea! I would buy such a set.

[LEGO Train 12 Volts]

Are you talking about a red motor?

It would be great!

[garethjellis]

This modular design is a fantastic idea! has alot of play ability.

[Pizzareno]

Yeah I really like this set's concept. I'd buy a couple of these no problem. What do you reckon about the price point? I supported in the price bracket of between 100 and 200. I hope you can get the support you need.

[James Mathis]

I figure it better be <US$200.

A red train motor would be nice, but to include an actual train motor and any of the Power Functions gear would be costly against ABS-only.

Red parts train specific:

Train motor decorative side elements, qty 2

Magnetic buffer couplers: qty 4

Bogie plate: qty 1 (hidden in coal car on unmotorized wheel assembly that can be directly swapped out and replaced by a train motor)

Large train wheels: 4 flanged, 2 not

regular train wheels with cross axle hole: qty 12

[TheLET]

Great model, I really hope that this idea gets enough support.

The modular design is really clever and definitely gives the model so much more possibilities. I like how the different combinations of modules all have a distinct look while having the same basic modules. Very well done.

[James Mathis]

It was a really eye-opening experience to think of a model, any model as a loaf of bread. Then, next, to take that model and slice it into sandwich bread slices. The slices became modules. These modules then could be connected with Technic pins. Then you could build a Subway® train sandwich to your particular taste (sorry, bad pun regarding sandwich shop in USA).

The simplicity of flipping the 1x2x2 wall panels between "flat" and "recessed" within a module felt like going along a guided Zen path between modern and old-fashion passions. A bit like the fantastic founding fundamental principles of LEGO element design fell into place for me-- and I was just along for the ride.

I was particularly pleased with the gondola freight car, even though it is an extremely simple build. Basically, you just take two of the bogie assemblies, remove one axle from each bogie, and put them together to form a small two axle frame. Then, take two of the passenger car cabins and remove the row of windows and place the walls with the 1x2x2 panels in the two axle frame. Top the gondola off with tiles, and ready to roll!

The builds are almost like cooking recipes.

Other alternate builds will likely require complete deconstruction of the modules, but a two-axle box car is probably pretty straight-forward.

I'm pretty sure that one might be able to conjure a small oil tanker and maybe a hopper car from this part collection.

I'm curious: what other car or locomotive types can you imagine from this Super Mega parts assortment? Either using only parts from this set or how the parts in this set could enhance or bring to real brick life a model that has been a dream?

-James

[*thomas*]

Amazing! I would buy multiple sets.

[zephyr1934]

I'm curious: what other car or locomotive types can you imagine from this Super Mega parts assortment? Either using only parts from this set or how the parts in this set could enhance or bring to real brick life a model that has been a dream?

This set is an excellent idea. A few thoughts that come to mind, none of which strike me as being issues for where the concept is right now, rather, if it makes it through 10k supporters at IDEAS,

1) it needs at least two 1x6x5 panels in dark green so that it is easy to make a short boxcar with one set or a large baggage car with no windows or other doors from multiple copies.

2) while the pin construction is a great concept, I would fear that the cars might sag too much in practice. I think it would be nice to include a pair of 6x28 black train bases (no red, no 6x24), those are so fundamental to basic train building and so hard to get (yes, advance AFOL builders rarely use them, but, this set needs to hit the same market as the HE, etc).

3) I'd suggest excluding a motor from the set, that frees up a lot of money for other parts, leaving the motor as an add on as was done in HE, EN, and Maersk. Otherwise, if it comes with a motor, then all of the builds have to use that motor. The current models switch between medium and train motors and I think that is an asset to be kept. Still, definitely keep the red train motor side pieces... maybe even include a black battery box cover

4) For the steam engines that have an internal PF motor, also include non-motorized variants (basically exclude the gearing) so that they could also be pushed by 9v or a power car [and for that matter, include a power car that has a PF train motor underneath as one possible design].

5) While the steam engines look good, a few of the designs look like they could prove to be a hassle with real wires, e.g., slide 24 has IR receiver input and output wires coming directly out of the front plane of the tender. That would make for a very crowded gap between the engine and tender.

6) Looking again, the cylinders might need to be redone. The technic axle through technic holes like on the EN can be problematic for operating. Designs that fake the actual piston seem to work better, e.g., Cale's technic half pin floating between two bars is much lower friction and much more reliable. Others have used a wrench sliding on a fixed rod.

Again, the above is minor nit picking. The design is a great one and very well executed.

[peterab]

Anything that includes train windows in green has my support.

The concept of modular carriages is sort of odd to me but if it encourages multiple purchases it could be a good thing sales wise. I'm probably more interested in this as a parts pack than a model, though it could be a nice starting point for modifications.

[James Mathis]

zephyr1934: I gotta say, thank you so much for a great response and excellent comments!

1) large parts panels are great for taken up real estate, especially if it is kind of out of sight. Although the 1x2x2 wall panels make a nice frame-effect for a box car end-wall. I recall this design was used in a red boxcar (4563 Load and Haul Railroad) and a blue boxcar (4564 Freight Rail Runner) in the first and second of the 9v train freight sets.

http://brickset.com/sets/4563-1/Load-and-Haul-Railroad

http://brickset.com/sets/4564-1/Freight-Rail-Runner

2) to prevent potential sagging, perhaps a plate across the seam on the base plate would help. The current design uses tiles just under the roof line to bridge the gap between modules. 6x28 black train baseplates are welcome-- to think how to incorporate them into the builds...

3) no electrics; showcase how they are available via separate purchase. No problem with that.

4) Yeah, easy enough, I think, to remove the gearing for a push-along by hand. Very good idea to showcase a car that allows for a train motor to "push" the locomotive. While the coal tender currently has the option for this train motor installation, an accommodating baggage car or other car would be a welcome variety.

5) Hmmm, PF wire spools are a physical reality that I have not given enough thought. Thanks for pointing that out. Well taken.

6) I can say that I've actually tested the push rod Technic axle through the Technic hole and it worked quite well. Setting the Technic hole at the same level as the large drive wheel axle height seemed to help. I actually have a video-- all be a very poorly lit video-- of the piston and drive rod set up. I'll see if I can get it uploaded to my Brickshelf account in a few days. But, it is, quite honestly, so poorly lit under a Christmas tree from a few years ago, that I may not be fond of letting it into public view. The test build has long been destroyed and acquired by my now 9 year old son... I should be more dedicated to rebuild and retest... I apologize for my ignorance the proven designs of seasoned Steam Builders such as Cale-- true pioneers and visionaries who have finely tuned the craft over dedicated years of study, trial, error, and success. I have much to learn. Oh, why not show that age old video of mine. It just might garner some chuckles, even at the risk of my own embarrassment.

Thanks, again, to all who offer their insights and take the time to check out this project.

mahalo,

James

Anything that includes train windows in green has my support.

The concept of modular carriages is sort of odd to me but if it encourages multiple purchases it could be a good thing sales wise. I'm probably more interested in this as a parts pack than a model, though it could be a nice starting point for modifications.

Parts pack to build your awesome trains. Love that!

[UrbanErwin]

I defenitely like the modular concept of this idea. I never have seen anything like this. Great work.

[3797]

This may sound harsh. I don't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, but let's be realistic for a second.

It's a nice moc, but it's also a pipedream. I don't think that any of the previous sets was more than 75€ when it hit the shelves. There probably isn't even any real incentive for them to pick a train as their next ideas set either, since they already struggle to sell the regular City trains and the Expert ones. Why make a 4th one, when there are a lot more good designs available that would appeal to a much wider audience?

I'll say it again...

We should be grateful, if we got a nice new Steam engine (without PF) for up to 100€ and an additional set with which you can build a passenger wagon as an A model or a freight wagon as a B model for no more than 50€ as the new Creator train "line".

Edited November 28, 2014 by 3797

[James Mathis]

3797: fair enough. Thanks for your honest evaluation and perspective. If nothing else, a place to showcase a design, field public reaction, and let it gauge future endeavors. It's a motivator to continue designing and maybe discovering something new-- not just in terms of a LEGO train model, but something new about the hobby, my peers, the LEGO community the TLG company, and myself, within the brick and beyond.

Thanks, again. I truly appreciate you taking the time to consider the model, design, prospective, and place in terms of the IDEAS program and the general offerings of trains in the LEGO portfolio. I'm glad LEGO still offers trains in CITY and CREATOR.

Thanks to your comments. I can wonder splitting this super mega concept into two sets would be better: 1) the 4-6-4 steam locomotive kit as approx. 500 pieces with multiple alternate build instructions and 2) one dark green passenger car kit at about 500 pieces that let's you build only one car at a time. Or the set only to have parts enough for one locomotive and one car, just like Emerald Night. Still a pipe dream...

Keep dreaming.

Keep building.

Trains.

Aloha,

James

[Gioppa]

you have my support!

[Yvan]

Until very recently it was all LEGO Technics for me, but a visit to Brickmania in Antwerpen two weeks ago made me have a look at trains too. Especially after my 3 year old spend half an hour gazing to a fantastic train diorama that was on display. So, time to broaden my horizon...

I really like the design of your proposal, so you already have my vote. But I agree with 3797 that some of the proposals at Ideas will most likely not be considered because of their size. Is this also valid for this train? I have no idea, time will tell. But the ideas behind your proposal do make sense, and I really hope some of it will be taken into account... Fingers crossed!

[3797]

one dark green passenger car kit at about 500 pieces that let's you build only one car at a time. Or the set only to have parts enough for one locomotive and one car, just like Emerald Night. Still a pipe dream...

A dark green passenger car is something that I wanted for more than a decade and I think that this is something that is do-able, since it wouldn't require too many special parts. Only dark green Train windows and doors for the play value. Hopefully. The rest would be - more or less - just regular bricks and pieces that they have to produce anyway, which would make it more worthwhile to TLC.

The problem with the EN approach of selling the Loco bundled with just one car was always that a train with just one car looked a bit silly and that bying more cars in that rare colour was way too expensive, since you had to buy the whole set several times or pay inflated prices on BL or eBay.

And don't get me wrong, I really like your design.

[James Mathis]

I just don't know what business model for trains is best. The go to seems to be the all-in-one one-time purchase of everything in the box: Starter sets with a complete train, motor, controller, and track seem to be "the way" for the mass-market LEGO trains. Being part of the design process for the Santa Fe cars and Hobby Train showed me that LEGO was willing to explored other avenues, and I'm certainly glad they produced the Maersk, Emerald Night, and Horizon Express, and for these offerings a price point of US$100 to US$130 has been OK-- I hope. Maybe some concepts showcased with my Super Mega Steam Power Train Builder would fit the prior proven attempts or be different enough to try and see if it works. Regardless, it's fun to design, build, and explore the possibilities. I glad you like the design. Thank you very much.

- James.

Edited November 29, 2014 by James Mathis

[zephyr1934]

At least from what I've heard (and I am NOT in the loop on these things), the IDEAS designs that are accepted then get a major reworking by the lego designers before they ever go public. So worrying too much about the small details at this stage is probably not important.

Lego moves in strange ways. They do not want to have too many different sets for niche markets. Given the fact that HE sold out in Europe without going on sale is probably a good sign for a future creator train. We probably cannot expect more than one train set targeted at the adult customer for now (again, I think once IDEAS matures, they will start offering many more niche sets). Furthermore, even if the trains lose money on their own, you need look no further than most public displays, usually there is a loop of track around most town layouts. So the trains help sell a lot more normal bricks.

The hobby train crashed and burned for several reasons

• common colors (not attractive for AFOLs)
  
• all special parts also became available in PAB at the same time (why buy the set if you can get just the parts you want)
  
• a user needed LDD to see all but one instructions (at the time LDD required an up to date computer, and few people had a computer in their building area)
  
• the risk of small magnets became apparent, so the sets were blown out at a huge discount
  
• To a lesser degree, there was little harmony between the different designs beyond the fact that they shared the same color pallet.
  

I do think it is unfortunate that lego has chosen to call the AFOL trains "Creator Expert". The creator sets are based on the old school lego, where a set could be built in several different ways, yet unlike the normal creator sets, the creator expert sets only have one way to build them. The problem with all of the recent AFOL sets is the fact that they are so inflexible. Want two passenger cars for your EN? Buy a second set and ignore the second locomotive. Want more cars for your Maersk? Same thing. HE was worse, want a train? Buy two sets. Anything else... well you are on your own.

Since lego is likely only going to have a single AFOL set at any given moment, AFOL's want variety (and the vast majority of AFOLs are not designers, i.e., prefer to follow the instructions), I do think the best solution is to revisit the hobby train idea with several improvements, namely,

• use a rare color (lego has already learned this lesson)
  
• keep some of the parts exclusive to the set (again, lego has learned this lesson)
  
• if there are a lot of different models, print the key ones and use pdf for the remainder (I don't think lego is here yet)
  
• make the set more harmonious- instead of 18 disjoint trains, offer three or four variants in one box that all work together (like the super chief 10022).
  
• Even better, offer 2-3 variants for N. America, 2-3 variants for Europe, etc. to address a builder's natural desire to keep the design local to their home country.
  

At this point the trick is then to figure out the color combination that can both yield a nice locomotive with plenty of detail and an attractive set of cars. Much easier to do for passenger trains since the locomotive and cars are often painted similarly, harder to do for freight.

To this end, the Super Mega Steam Power Train Builder is a great first step. Lego needs to keep hearing the feedback from many directions.

[MusicaRibelle]

I have nothing particularly constructive to say except: great idea!!

Funny enough, I'm currently waiting for the last batch of pieces from BL to arrive to build my first steam moc, after rebuilding from parts a 7720, so in a way I spent the last few weeks collecting pieces and building my own steam hobby train set -- but I would gladly buy this, if it ever came available.

Aside from AFOLs, I think a set like this would make a great gift.

If TLG offered again set of curved+straight tracks, I would in fact recommend this over a 'complete' but single-build train set for the 8+ yrs old crowd.

Anyhow, I support this project, I hope "something" comes out of it.

For example, TLG could take it and scale it down to a 3-in-1 steam locomotive and tender set, setting the price in the $50-70 range.

I know, we wouldn't get those beautiful dark green windows... but that will be resolved in a few years by technology.

Cheers!

[3797]

Given the fact that HE sold out in Europe without going on sale is probably a good sign for a future creator train.

It was on sale. Multiple times, actually. It sold out when TLC dropped the price from 99.99€ to 84.99€ and offered an additional 5% off for any purchase over 125€ to anyone with a VIP card and an additional free mini set at the same time.

[zephyr1934]

Okay, maybe the 15% off HE is not a good sign then... but I still THINK lego is trying to serve the AFOL train fans. Time will tell and suggestions like the SMSPTB can only help the case.

[dr_spock]

Nice Idea. Is there anything in there for the non-steam engine train fan? Can diesels or electrics engines be built with part provided in this project?

Interesting the HE sale wasn't available in North America. Probably why we still have HE in stock.

[James Mathis]

I've just updated the project page to illustrate the base platform of the steam locomotive. The LXF Digital Designer files for the locomotives and cars are also available in a link to my Brickshelf gallery.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/86744/updatesI hope you find the build interesting. Comments on the design most certainly welcome.-James

Edited December 6, 2014 by James Mathis