Prices

[Hobbes]

As I mentioned in this thread it looks like Austrian stores - Viennese stores at least - are restocking their LEGO shelves. I visited at least four different major stores lately and in all four I happily witnessed the interest (very) young customers showed in LEGO. Especially Bionicles seem to be a favorite among boys (not surprisingly). But what I also was able to witness was the parents' reluctance to spend 4 Euro on tiny sets like "Racers" or the small Bionicle figures. The common (and sadly true) opinion was that for that price you can get two sets of something else (usually some 1-piece plastic toy).

That is sad. The interest seems to be there. But the price policy obviously works against it. I mean, I was standing there, drooling, seeing all these sets, but didn't buy anything because of the price. And my single income is above the average of an Austrian 2-kid-family. If I don't want to spend that much how could they?

Where are all those small sets ("Town" used to have some in "the good ol' days") that you could afford from your pocket money? Kids should be able to buy those kinda sets by themselves, without risking their parents' credit history.

Just my 2 cents... had to rant a bit. Sorry if a similar topic already exists in the vastness of this message board ;)

[snefroe]

i follow your argument for a large part, however:

1) there are a few, i know, just a few, sets at very low prices. the smallest sets of the construction theme and firefighting theme are 2-4

[Jipay]

More competitive ? muahahahah

First of all TLC should stop to megablocks Europeans all over the place by making the European prices reasonnable comparred to US ones. 140 dollars = 170 euros, what kind of bad joke is this ???? *devil*

[Mister Phes]

Where are all those small sets ("Town" used to have some in "the good ol' days") that you could afford from your pocket money? Kids should be able to buy those kinda sets by themselves, without risking their parents' credit history.

These small sets create LEGO obsessions! Kiddies buy them with what little money they have then they get their parents to buy them the bigger sets for those special occassions. Or at least that's how it worked for me!

But anyways, I was walkin through some department stores the other day... No small town sets whatsoever... Knights Kingdom action figures - yes, aplenty...

[Hobbes]

1) The lowest priced sets here in Austria are Bionicles for EUR 3.99. The small City sets (Police Motorbike for example) are EUR 4.19.

2) In the States, maybe, not in Europe as far as I can tell. I think that EUR 67.99 for the 4404 set is way too much. Or EUR 51.99 for 4886 (compared to USD 39.99!). Same goes for the XXL Crane (EUR 51.99 here, USD 49.99 in the States). And I'm not taking into account the currency exchange rate - including that the difference is even higher!

Something is wrong with the European price policy. Fortunately I have "connections" to the States and mostly buy my sets there (unless I can't wait to get it which so far only happened when the BNSF came out). US-prices, I think, are fair. European prices IMHO are not.

3) I don't see any. Maybe a local store sells something off now and then but that is mostly older sets that are retired (on S@H at least).

4) Here I cannot agree. As I said, to me 4 Euro are (almost) nothing. I'm willing to spend it for those sets. But now that people have gotten used to the Euro they are aware what 4 Euro really are worth compared to their income. And I've heard parent "excuses" over and over: "4 Euro? Lets get you 2 of <fill in other plastic toy here>."

[Hobbes]

These small sets create LEGO obsessions!  Kiddies buy them with what little money they have then they get their parents to buy them the bigger sets for those special occassions.  Or at least that's how it worked for me!

But anyways, I was walkin through some department stores the other day...  No small town sets whatsoever...  Knights Kingdom action figures - yes, aplenty...

I hear you, mister_phes, I hear you... :'(

[Jipay]

Well I thought lego had learn the lessons from the past mistakes, but obviously not. I'm sure that with this price policy, they will soon shrink, at least in Europe. Nothing justify such differences in Prices, not even taxes...

[xwingyoda]

Coming to think of it, its AFOL pricing with kids detailing, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh |-/

Shouldn't this be the opposite ????? I wonder >-|

[Hobbes]

Coming to think of it, its AFOL pricing with kids detailing, yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh  |-/

That sums it up pretty well.

Shouldn't this be the opposite ????? I wonder  >-|

It was once...

I dunno, was TLC doing badly in the 80s/early 90s that they won't "revert" their way/business? I'm not a business professional, nonetheless I don't understand why it is so difficult to "just be LEGO" again, not a "hip and cool toy". LEGO is hip and cool anyways and will always be. What's so bad about owning just a bit of the world's toy-market but produce a high-quality yet affordable product? We saw what happened when they tried to appeal to a whole new clientele. Didn't work. Couldn't. There'll always be people who won't buy it (pity them).

And it seems raising the prices didn't work either[1] because now they have to sell their theme parks |:|

I just don't get it... :|

[1] Raising prices with declining sales never works. I haven't seen one store/company where this policy worked. I learned that 18 years ago in school already...

[Jipay]

Yes, it never works. that's what i studying in my business school. The price isssue is much more important for Europeans than it used to be. Unfortunatly Hobess, Time will show you were right. I think Lego was too proud of remaking profits. They must have forgoten it was because the sets were nice AND affordable.

[snefroe]

outch... a lot of responses in just two hours time

hobbes, the sets you're refering to (the small ones) are 2,78 and 3,49 in my country. i know Austria is extremely expensive for lego. when i went to Italy with my parents when i was young, we never bought any lego there... it seems some things never change.

the reason why these products are a lot more expensive in europe than any place else is partly because of the 21% VAT. i'm not sure if TLC produces lego destined for the US in Billund or in the US. price would be influenced by that as well... i don't think the people of TLC are really dying to irritate us with these prices even tho they do,... after all, europe is her home market... sure, it would be great if TLC were to produce the stuff in China, but i don't think Denmark will accept that...

if you reread posts of the passed, you will find that quite a few of us agree that the price policy of TLC has improved.

i can only state what i'm observing in my shops/country: i see lots of sales, sometimes older sets they're trying to get rid off, sometimes newer stuff. i just picked up the discovery shuttle for 50% and a firestation for about the same reduction. we now even get a towel for free if we buy sets at a certain shop (can't remember which one)

it seems to me that retailers can afford to have sales on Lego. i even saw a little war between shops for the firetruck. Even tho the official price is about 19

[Jipay]

115 X 1,21 (VAT) = 140 euros... Still 30 euros somewhere...

[snefroe]

115 X 1,21 (VAT) = 140 euros... Still 30 euros somewhere...

where do you get the 115

[Mister Phes]

The other day I stumbled across a reciept for 6259 Broadside's Brig which I purchased in 1992.

Regular retail price was A$17.95, which now is US$13.60 or

[Hobbes]

snefroe1,

your examples are sales, of course: 12.90 instead of 19 sure is. I was only complaining about Austria. We Austrians like to ;)

The only sort-of-sale I remember was at a local TRU where they sold 3(!) of the new fire-sets for the price of two. While that might be a sale when you look at the single set price it isn't really a sale to attract non-AFOL or non-collectors. I haven't seen any "xx % off"-sale here lately. Although sometimes there are sets on sale they "want to get rid of", that is true - but very rare. Like those 440x Designer Sets I mentioned: they're retired on S@H but still available in some stores - at full price. So I got them on eBay for half...

And for the VAT: I agree with jipay, it doesn't add up...

As for the many responses in a short time: it always is a hot topic. I know we can't do much but I just wanted to rant ;)

[Hobbes]

The other day I stumbled across a reciept for 6259 Broadside's Brig [...]

HA! Thank you, mister_phes, this is the "small pirate" set I mentioned in your Pirate-Collection-Thread that I wasn't sure about whether I owned it. I confused it with the bit bigger Sabre Island set (of which I recently acquired two)!

ThanQ ;)

[xwingyoda]

115 X 1,21 (VAT) = 140 euros... Still 30 euros somewhere...

where do you get the 115

[Hobbes]

115 X 1,21 (VAT) = 140 euros... Still 30 euros somewhere...

I think snefroe1 means that the USD 140 you're referring to already are the net prices. If you add 20 % VAT (like in Austria) to the 140 in question you come up with 168...

[xwingyoda]

115 X 1,21 (VAT) = 140 euros... Still 30 euros somewhere...

I think snefroe1 means that the USD 140 you're referring to already are the net prices. If you add 20 % VAT (like in Austria) to the 140 in question you come up with 168...

Yes BUT the pricing of SAH already includes VAT ;)

[Hobbes]

I know, BUT:

snefroe1 said the price difference is because of taxes. jipay countered with his example. I say, snefroe1 meant that the value of US prices correspond to net value of European prices. For jipay's example this means that USD 140 "equal" EUR 140 to which then taxes are added and we arrive at a price of almost EUR 170 for USD 140.

;)

[xwingyoda]

OK Hobbes, I agree with you ;)

[Jipay]

115 X 1,21 (VAT) = 140 euros... Still 30 euros somewhere...

where do you get the 115

[Hobbes]

Don't tell me they are not making more money with European markets... This may also explain why today, when I went into a local hyperstore, there was 1 box of lego on display, and the rest were megablocks...

:'(

I know that feeling. That's how toy stores used to look here, too. That's why I was so surprised when I saw all that restocking (and be it older sets that needed to get off the inventory).

[snefroe]

honestly, i haven't a clue how tlc is setting her price, if she's setting her price at all.

first, is the production cost of US lego sets the same as european lego sets? Is she producing all sets in billund or for a part in the us? we know there was a company in Korea and there is one in Tsechia. how does TLC come to her final price in Europe and the US? I don't know.

second, there are also other costs, next to TLC's cost, like transport costs, coming from Maersk and local distribution companies. these costs will be much different in the US and Europe. oil prices are after all very different in europe and the US.

then there is the wholesailer. he also takes a cut. Wages in europe and the US are very different either.

finally, the retailer, even tho TRU clearly is a multinational. he also takes a cut. in the end the customer pays an extra 21% in Belgium, probably in the rest of europe as well. in some other parts of the world, there probably is an extra import tax as well...

there's also the evolution of currencies. the dollar is very weak. not a good thing for TLC. what any EU company does right now to deal with this, is to decrease profit margins in Europe, and increase margins in the US. that is why EU companies survive right now, with this high euro. they limit profit margins and costs in europe as much as possible. I assume TLc is doing the same; unfortunately, i have a feeling that they don't...

the difference between us and europe is not only based on vat, but also on wages, oil prices, profit margins of the actors of the economic pipeline... that explains the differece.

all these elements are part of the final price; we all know that the european social-economic model is very different to the American model, so it's inevitable that prices are as well. it's always been this way, but thanks to the internet and globalisation, we now see the difference.

my guess is that TLC tries to get an equal profit margin in Europe and the US. but because life is more expensive in Europe than in the Us, it's very logical to assume that tlc's products will be more expensive in Europe. but it is possible that TLC uses one continent against the other and tries to get a larger profit margin in the US than in europe, since costs are a lot higher here than in the US. that would allow TLC to decrease her profit margins here in Europe in order to become more competitive against the new players in this market.

then there is the SAH. at first you would have to say that it is a ripp off. after all, SAH follows the local prices, even tho they're offering exactly the same products all over the world while costs are minimal and the same all over the world. it suggests that tlc's taking huge profits in Europe. however, i don't really know how large/expensive the european structure of TLC as a company is in al the different countries of the EU, compared to the Us structure; it seems to me that the local SAH simply follows local prices because costs on infrastructure in europe are a lot higher and they might be acused of dumping,...

[Mister Phes]

HA! Thank you, mister_phes, this is the "small pirate" set I mentioned in your Pirate-Collection-Thread that I wasn't sure about whether I owned it. I confused it with the bit bigger Sabre Island set (of which I recently acquired two)!

Sabre Island also seemed rather expensive. As I recall at the time it was over $30. Come to think of it most of the Pirate LEGO sets seemed rather expensive for what they contained. Only the smallest ones seemed reasonable in regards to their contents vs price ratio.

So the fact that LEGO sets seem expensive isn't a new thing. We've just forgotten they were just as expensive in the past.