American Indian Theme Popularity

[WesternOutlaw]

I broke out a few of my Wild West Indian sets over the weekend; and as I was looking at the detail of the figs and a few of the accessories, I couldn't help to think, why weren't the American Indian sets more popular?

Back when I was collecting Wild West sets after the theme had been retired, I remember going to the toy store looking for coyboy sets, only to find a lot of the Indian sets on the shelves. They just didn't seem as popular; at least in my opinion.

I've heard a similar discussion re. the Islander sets and their relationship with the Pirate theme.

Do you think that the Indian theme can be compared to Islanders with the Pirate theme?

Did/do you like the Indian sets? Was this a sub-theme of WW that Lego should have discontinued sooner, or do you think the sub-theme should have been expanded?

Discuss your opinion here.

Here's a couple of images of some of the great figs included within the Indian theme:

[Athos]

The sets were a little pricey and the smaller sets really weren't that great. How many Indian chiefs does one really need? I think this kept me from buying more of them.

There also wasn't much to do with them. Just hanging around the teepee village and dodging falling rocks. It was probably too hard to do any conflict with them, as it would not be PC to have the Indians fighting the cowboys... or even worse the US Cavalry.

I liked the line though and hope Lego revives it.

Steve

[Faramir]

Even though I was never in a position in which I could buy Indian sets, I agree with Athos. Looking at the sets, there isn't really that much going on. It must have been hard for TLC to design the sets, as they would get complaints if they made too many sets with them fighting the cowboys or had them sitting around smoking peace pipes .

The pieces look good though, as you never see black bows or quivers around today.

I wish I had bought some, but, if I had, I probably would have only bought one or two.

<Faramir-<

[WesternOutlaw]

How many Indian chiefs does one really need? I think this kept me from buying more of them.

I know what you mean. The Chief was included in three of the sets (Rapid River Village, Chief's Tepee, and Tribal Chief). This was three of the five of the main set collection.

But isn't it the same issue with other themes (like Indy as a recent example)? I think Lego does this so that each set is almost a "stand-alone" set.

There also wasn't much to do with them. Just hanging around the teepee village and dodging falling rocks.

Yes. The theme could have benefited from more scenes (similar to Playmobil). There could have been a Buffalo Hunt, an Indian Scout/Tracker with Canoe to help some Wild West explorers, a Medicine Man, and perhaps an Indian with Wolf. More animals would have really added to the theme. A conflict/war with the cavalry would not have even been necessary, but I would have liked to see the Indian and Cowboy sets intermingled.

Here's a few sets Playmobil offered:

[Siegfried]

Well, as I have said before, cowboys and Indians never was my thing. Even so, I thought the sets were very nice. If they came back I would probably buy a few (and I might ever BrickLink a few in the mean time!), but I wouldn't buy many of them.

[iamded]

I think it has something to do with the noses. Really though, I've looked at these sets on Brickset, and they just didn't really appeal to me as much as the rest. I'm not sure why, maybe it's something to do with the construction, I don't know. Or maybe it was the noses...

~Peace

[WesternOutlaw]

I honestly did not like the sets at all when I first saw them. The totem poles and the rest of the construction just didn't look well-designed. What is outstanding; however, are the figs, the tepees, and the accessories. I esp like the details of the Indian faces (including the noses). I think they are some of the most detailed faces that Lego has designed.

Oh, don't forget to check out the exciting conclusion of Ambush at Bridge Canyon for a small tastle of a new Indian MOC.

[hollisbrick]

The Indians were probably my favourite sets out of the WW era..

[Shadows]

They probably didn't sell for the same reason as any other Wild West themed toy of the 90's, it just wasn't interesting to kids, and I think most of that is because society decided that it wasn't 'acceptable' anymore.

Had the minifig existed in the 60's, Wild West would have been hugely popular. Moving all of the popular themes into a virtual 60's world, I think it would have been the biggest seller, or at least in a constant fight with Space. That's what kids watched on tv in the form of westerns, and it's what they played: Cowboys and Indians or Spaceman.

I still think my imaginary Zorro line would have done well too as a subtheme of WW, and provided a way to introduce conflict without it being the typical white man vs. native while using enough Pirate parts to attract those fans as well. Win/win.

As a product of the late 70's and 80's, I never played cowboy at all. Star Wars and Indiana Jones were it for me. Both lines would have killed anything else in the 80's.

All in all, themes are a product of their era. I now have an interest in WW from a more historical standpoint, not from a Cowboys and Indians angle. I want a train station and a town and all the things I want in City or Castle, the things we have a hard time getting: daily life. And female minifigs.

I don't think the future bodes well for the line, sadly, despite the recent ambassador's poll. I don't see LEGO risking conflict with the PC crowd that seems to rule these days.

[Nikola Bathory]

There also wasn't much to do with them. Just hanging around the teepee village and dodging falling rocks. It was probably too hard to do any conflict with them, as it would not be PC to have the Indians fighting the cowboys... or even worse the US Cavalry.

Well, the Indians were wiped out exactly by the peaceful cowboys and US cavalry!

[WesternOutlaw]

Had the minifig existed in the 60's, Wild West would have been hugely popular. Moving all of the popular themes into a virtual 60's world, I think it would have been the biggest seller, or at least in a constant fight with Space. That's what kids watched on tv in the form of westerns, and it's what they played: Cowboys and Indians or Spaceman.

Interesting points you make. I would tend to agree with you regarding the lack of popularity of westerns in modern culture. But at the same time, the "cowboy" sets seemed more popular to me. They were gone from the shelves, but yet the Indian sets were still collecting dust.

I still think my imaginary Zorro line would have done well too as a subtheme of WW, and provided a way to introduce conflict without it being the typical white man vs. native

I would have loved to seen a Zorro line as we've discussed before.

As a product of the late 70's and 80's, I never played cowboy at all. Star Wars and Indiana Jones were it for me. Both lines would have killed anything else in the 80's.

I recall buying Main Street which contained a man in a cowboy hat. Later, a gas station (6375) came out with the same figure. We used the figures/or the hats, and horses from the old yellow castle to portrait cowboys. Our play focussed on cowboys vs. cowboys rather than adding Indians to the mix. Aside from this one memory, I don't recall playing cowboys/Wild West any other time.

It was only later that my WW interest peeked after the theme was retired. The theme (combined with trains) really started my fascination with Lego again (and perhaps Adventurers).

I don't see LEGO risking conflict with the PC crowd that seems to rule these days.

It's funny. Kids play very graphic games these days in which shooting at others and lots of blood is becoming a standard. Yet the historic battles between Cowboys and Indians are risky to those trying to stay "politically correct". I see a completely double standard here. In addition, there is no reason that Cowboys and Indians can't be mixed in a friendly fashion rather than battles between the two nations. It's all how sets/themes are portrayed.

One idea for a new Indian sub-theme could involve more focus on the mythical aspects of American Indians. Legends of mighty Indian warriors with mythical creatures like wolves, buffalo, or other creatures would be interesting, as modern Indian pictures often depict (sort of like the Viking sets).

A theme like this might even appeal to children. - just a thought.

[snefroe]

well i think we sorta discussed this before. apart from the quality of the Indian sets, indians are just not popular in any kind of Western theme. When we played "cowboy and Indians" when we were young, nobody wanted to be the Indian, because he was boring, not exciting, not interesting and a loser. let's face it, what kid is interested in a tomahawk or a knife if you can be the guy with the gun? What kid is interested in the deeper impact of white men's behavior towards the Indian culture? Kids identify themselves with heroes and in Westerns, none of the Indians are heroes(thanks very much Hollywood!). very often they're not even the bad guys. They're just part of the story, very often in the background with a story that just isn't appealing to young kids.

at least the cavalry allows you to build armies. the Indians.... well... who wants to build a village with 500 tipis or so?

i like the Indians though... i've got multiples of all indian sets... think the minifigs are amongst the most beautiful of the entire catalog...

[WesternOutlaw]

i like the Indians though... i've got multiples of all indian sets... think the minifigs are amongst the most beautiful of the entire catalog...

I really like them as well. I also like the tepee design and some of the rare elements like the tree stump and shields.

I have the two larger sets still unopened. I ordered them from Lego when they were available, but never built them. I usually use the Chief's Tepee set when building any Indian MOC. I actually passed on the Rapid River Village (the largest set) when I saw it at a local toy store for 1/2 the price. I ended up buying from Lego at full price later.

[Shoc]

I love this theme! I have a few sets, including the nicely built village thingy. I never got any of the Cowboy sets, Native American culture appeals to me more I suppose. The minifigs are great ones too, I use the pieces a lot, nice priniting - especially on the torsos. I'm not sure why they didn't sell well, as other people replying to this topic seem to like them, and I do, but meh, some people find gunfighters more pleasant than a relatively peaceful group of people.

:skull:

[WesternOutlaw]

I love this theme! I never got any of the Cowboy sets, Native American culture appeals to me more I suppose. The minifigs are great ones too, I use the pieces a lot, nice priniting - especially on the torsos. I'm not sure why they didn't sell well.

That's great to hear Shock. I enjoy hearing the "pros" in regard to the Indian theme.

Perhaps the lack of poplularity also stems from the quality of the larger sets. I like the smaller sets a lot, but not sure if the big canyon sets really appealed to many WW fans. I remember buying the Chief's Tepee (6746) and just using the tepee and the figs. The other sections (mainly the totem pole) didn't do much for me in the way of design.

Here's a shot:

[highlandcattle]

I really love these sets aswell!

I only have the 6718 and kept the box because it is so lovely. I actually only bought it a couple of months ago. In an old toyshop (snef knows which one). Man, was she glad to get rid of it!

I've been thinking about making an Indian MOC but I can't think of anything. Except for large pieces of nature. Were they rely that unpopular? I remember lego re-releasing one of the big sets.

The same can be set for the ninja theme,extremly cool but also extremely shortlived

[Athos]

I've been thinking about making an Indian MOC but I can't think of anything. Except for large pieces of nature.

I think that's the heart of the problem. That's not to say, I wouldn't heartily welcome a WildWest revival.

Steve

[Shoc]

I only have the 6718 and kept the box because it is so lovely. I actually only bought it a couple of months ago. In an old toyshop (snef knows which one).

Wow, why was the shop still selling it? Nobody ever bought it?

:skull:

[WesternOutlaw]

I've been thinking about making an Indian MOC but I can't think of anything. Except for large pieces of nature.

I think that's the heart of the problem.

Definately one of the major disadvantages with the sub-theme. Wild West town sets offers different types of buildings, structures, trains, and forts. Indian sets are rather limited. Builders need to be extra creative with Indian MOCs.

Don't forget to check one out here: Ambush at Bridge Canyon

[Batbrick]

Don't forget to check one out here: Ambush at Bridge Canyon

Shameless advertising

Me myself? I would agree that the lack of many building ideas would be a disadvantage to the Indian subtheme. Me personally, I think it's a wonderful theme, full of great parts and wonderful minifigs. Why they didn't sell well I'm not sure, maybe Indians just plain aren't as cool as cowboys to the buyers...

Batbrick Away!

[WesternOutlaw]

Shameless advertising

maybe Indians just plain aren't as cool as cowboys to the buyers...

I think they are though, if not "cooler". Anyone can shoot a gun, but Indians had to have other talents/skills (with bows, and other weapons). Plus there's always the mythical component to Indian legends. That's what interests me. As I said above, Lego applied fantasy to the Viking line in such a manner. They could do the same with Indians.

[MoonCheese]

Lego probably just ran out of ideas. One thing I really like about the Wild West theme is that they had a lot of "city" and/or "everyday life" sets like the Native American villages and the town sets (like bank and general store). Now, if Lego could do that with Castle...

[Tanotrooper]

I think they are though, if not "cooler". Anyone can shoot a gun, but Indians had to have other talents/skills (with bows, and other weapons). Plus there's always the mythical component to Indian legends. That's what interests me. As I said above, Lego applied fantasy to the Viking line in such a manner. They could do the same with Indians.

well, it depends on what gun you are using, as you might be referring to artillery, rifles, pistols, machine guns or even railguns *sweet*

and eventually Indians used fire weapons too.

The problem for me is, when I look at the figures, they're too... crowded. The printed legs, face, torso overreacts it a bit. I have some Indian hairpieces and printed legs from PaB in 2004... When did the line appear then?

TT

[Athos]

Anyone can shoot a gun, but Indians had to have other talents/skills (with bows, and other weapons).

Not to mention rubbing two Harry Potter wands together to make fire. Or putting your non-printed ears to the ground to hear the cowboy's plastic horse hoofs.

Steve

[Batbrick]

I think they are though, if not "cooler". Anyone can shoot a gun, but Indians had to have other talents/skills (with bows, and other weapons). Plus there's always the mythical component to Indian legends. That's what interests me. As I said above, Lego applied fantasy to the Viking line in such a manner. They could do the same with Indians.

You make a great point, but we must also remember the target audience: Kids, in particular, boys. And I know that as a boy, as well as others around me, when I became fascinated with Wild West it wasn't because of the Indians, it was the Cowboys. Kids love their lines ("Partner!" "Stick 'em up!" "Draw"), the way they move, their style, and the whole bandit/sherriff angle. Not many kids want to be Indians, who, even I must admit to believing this when I was young, think they just shoot arrows and speak funny, slowly, or say "How" a lot.

Batbrick Away!

Edited April 16, 2008 by Batbrick