Brick Miner Posted June 3, 2006 Posted June 3, 2006 all right, here it is! the long anticipated BrickMiner first MOC release !!! GUNSLINGERS SALOON wild west set # 6758. Pieces: 273 (including "broken" minifigs) Minifigs: 5 Height: 22 bricks Value: $ 60.00 USD (calculation based on average BrickLink prices for NEW bricks) -------------------------------------------------- INSPIRATION: when the wild west theme was canceled in 1997, I felt LEGO hadn't fully exhausted the possibilities of the gold mining town, LEGOREDO. the saloon concept was touched upon briefly in the official wild west set 6769, FORT LEGOREDO. in the headquarters can be found a card table, with a trap door leading to a jail (for the bandits) or to freedom (for the calvery or cowboy). See brickster's review here for details on the trapdoor feature here: http://eurobricks.hosting.ipsyn.com/eurofo...t=ST&f=9&t=2904 ------------------------------------------------- in the GUNSLINGERS SALOON i expanded on the "trapdoor" idea of the FORT LEGOREDO headquarters. my goal was to keep the "action toy" feel that many of the official LEGO wild west releases had. in the saloon, a game of cards can determine the fate of a gambler. if one is caught "cheating" in the saloon, he can be "shot" out of the venue by the other card player !!! ------------------------------------------------- HOW IT WORKS: in the main interior of the saloon there is a card table and two chairs (very similar to FORT LEGOREDO). on one side of the table is a 100-dollar bill, and on the other side is a dynamite stick. the table is built on a turntable, and if the dynamite is turned to either chair (and the dollar bill away from) the "cheater" will go flying into the air. it works for each chair on either side of the card table. the table/chair mechanism is propelled by a magnet system. under the table is one magnet, and under each chair is another magnet. the magnets are built so that they repel one another. when the table is turned so that the magnet faces another magnet, it forces the corresponding chair to fly up. this causes the "cheater" to fly into the air, as if "shot" by the other card player. also, the ceiling of the saloon is built on hinges, so that it can be raised for placing minifigs in the chairs and for turning the table to "shoot" the "cheaters". ------------------------------------------------- OTHER FEATURES: gambling is only one pass time cowboys partake in at the saloon. live entertainment provided by the infamous saloon girls was a common theme in the wild west. GUNSLINGERS SALOON is no exception. this venue is complete with resident entertainer and balcony style stage for performing. another attraction is the beverages, located outside the saloon. i wanted to keep within the socially acceptable limits of the western theme as LEGO saw it. i felt, having a full-on bar inside the saloon was something LEGO would have seen as too "naughty" for a toy designed for 8-12 year olds. thus, I just opted for a water tap outside the bar. However, similar to official LEGO castle release 6060, the barrels could be assumed to have more than just water in them !!! also, under the barrel is a secret compartment for gold coins !!! This feature is very similar to the building style of official LEGO released wild west sets. similar compartments can be found in FORT LEGOREDO 6769 and BANDITS SECRET HIDEOUT 6761. ------------------------------------------------- THEORIES BEHIND MY MOCing: theories and concepts behind my wild west MOCing can be found here: http://eurobricks.hosting.ipsyn.com/eurofo...?showtopic=4557 let me know what you think !!! Quote
Lost Viking Posted June 3, 2006 Posted June 3, 2006 Wow! I thought that was an official set at first! That looks great! One thing that I would have added would be a piano. Here is an example of one. Quote
eNiGMa Posted June 3, 2006 Posted June 3, 2006 Excellent work. The facade looks great, and the magnet-table-chair mechanism is genius. Quote
Athos Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 I like it. I'd buy it for sure, if it were a retail set. Though $60 seems a bit too steep to me, $20 seems more like it. I love 'the entertainer.' Though I don't see 'the Gunslinger' (see my signature) on the scene ;-) Steve Quote
Brick Miner Posted June 4, 2006 Author Posted June 4, 2006 One thing that I would have added would be a piano. Here is an example of one.while that piano looks spectacular, it is made of far too many pieces. LEGO would never had done anything like that in the wild west series.to be honest, i wanted to add more details to this. but my piece count was already getting really high for a set this size... for example, the BANDITS SECRET HIDEOUT 6761 is 238 pieces, and it seems a lot bigger than GUNSLIGNERS SALOON 6758 (273 pieces), therefore demanding a higher retail price. basically, the piece count is really high for a set that can only fetch 20-35 USD retail. i just couldn't add any more stuff. Though $60 seems a bit too steep to me.i agree, 60 USD is what one would pay for NEW pieces off of bricklink today, not the retail price that LEGO would have suggested back in 1996/1997.i thought some of you might be interested in the stickers that i used. here is some production photos i took... since LEGO never gave us any female westerns, i have been forced to make stickers if my MOCs call for a lady. you can see three in the sticker sheet i made, though only one appears in GUNSLIGNERS SALOON. maybe i'll share the other females in my next MOC !!! also, all the colors i use in my stickers are actually colors of LEGO bricks. i took a scan of all the different color bricks i had, and made a chart. that way, if the sticker was to be put on a brick of the same color, it would match exactly !!! i took a lot of time on this MOCs !!! Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted June 4, 2006 Governor Posted June 4, 2006 I have many questions, but I'll only ask a couple at a time so as to keep my post shorter making it easier to anwer the questions. let me know what you think !!! This is magnificent in design and presentation! Its so good in fact I think I better lift my game so I don't get left behind! INSPIRATION:when the wild west theme was canceled in 1997, I felt LEGO hadn Quote
WesternOutlaw Posted June 4, 2006 Posted June 4, 2006 Brick Miner: this is one of the best Wild West (WW) MOCs I've seen. Most impressively, I love the way you displayed the MOC as a real set with actual WW box art. Colors: the brown and yellow pieces work well together. I like the combination of the yellow fence pieces and brown arches. Design: although I really like the brown arches, both floors have a very open/airy look to them, esp. the second floor. The use of some window shutter doors for saloon doors in the middle of the first floor would add a nice element of design and help close the front off a bit. I'd also maybe add some sides to the second floor to help close off the second floor. Very nice job on the sign in the fashion of the bank from Gold City Junction. I also like the double steps and two brick high (or 2 1/3 brick) foundation. I see why you did it with the trap seat/chair. The sign is excellent. Very nicely done. Figs: beautiful torso designs and use of the stickers. Scarlett and the Man in Black definately need to be added to the Wild West sets as regulars. I think I used the grey torso for one of my MOCs way back when. I love the joker card he's holding! Excellent detail. Overall: Very nice Brick Miner. I can see that you put a lot of time and detail in to this MOC and the final product is a beautiful WW set and (as mentioned by others) worthy of a real Lego WW set. I would buy for about $30 USD (similar in price to the Sheriff's Lockup). You did an excellent job on the stickers and the presentation is wonderful. Quote
optimus-convoy Posted June 5, 2006 Posted June 5, 2006 Exellent Moc. Looks just like a real Wild West set. :-) Quote
Brick Miner Posted June 5, 2006 Author Posted June 5, 2006 What intrigues me the most (at the moment) is how you did the background - have you taken existing Western set box art and used it to create this background, or did you design it yourself entirely from scratch?the backgrounds are a combination of both, scanning images from boxes, and recreating completely from scratch. the bg mountain, bg cactus, foreground cactus, and all of the box logos are scanned and modified from box art. where as, the sky and ground are all created in photoshop. the dust bowls on the ground are done by using a filter in photoshop called "motion blur."phes, definitely feel free to ask more questions if you have them. i love topics/converstaions about this, and im more than willing to share my information !!! -------------------------------------------------- although I really like the brown arches, both floors have a very open/airy look to them, esp. the second floor. The use of some window shutter doors for saloon doors in the middle of the first floor would add a nice element of design and help close the front off a bit. I'd also maybe add some sides to the second floor to help close off the second floor.yes !!! my only problem i wish i could have solved was the open/airy look... you nailed it brickster !!!i tried closing off the saloon's first floor by adding windows/shudders. didn't like it. i needed the fence consistency to justify the use of it as railing on the balcony, and up top (to the left and right) of the saloon sign. without this consistency, the fences that appeared on the balcony and on the sign looked out of place. as for closing off the sides of the first floor... it can't be done. the table/chair/magnet system causes the minifig to fly out the side of the saloon. if the sides were closed the minfig wouldn't have anywhere to go... thus, minimalizing the feature. and closing off the top floor, but not the bottom, would cause the building to look top heavy. all-in-all i tired a dozen different combinations of things... the best result is what you see !!! well, im my crazy "do-what-every-it-takes-to-mimick-an-offical-LEGO-release" world anyway. one interesting thing to note about this MOC... it required "play testing" due to the table/chair/magnet system. this is one thing that can only be appreciated if the set is in front of you. thus, some things (like the hinged ceiling) is only fully appreciated/understood when the set is in hand. I love the joker card he's holding! Excellent detail.i had the basics of this MOC built before the batman line had been announced. i was so happy when i saw this piece in the batman/joker set !!! i loved adding that little detail. it fit remarkably well in my set, and only added 1 piece to my piece count !!!also, brickster, im glad you brought up the minifigs... i can see now (in the images provided above) that its hard to get a complete understanding of each of them (and why they were chosen for this set). about 50% of designing this set went into the minfig choices, so its an important factor in realizing this set. when i get some more time i'll definitely add more images in another reply... please check back !!! Quote
Norro Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 Very Nice! And great presentation. My main objection is also the airiness, I think if Lego were doing this they would have replaced the arches with new stickered windows to giver a more solid look and then place say a 1x1x5 pillar on the 2 back corners of the secon level and semi-connected the roof to make it feel more closed in. Thanks for sharing and God Bless, Nathan Quote
SuvieD Posted June 6, 2006 Posted June 6, 2006 Like others have said I would place walls at least on the second floor to fill this out some. I would also add a 2x plate just under the saloon sticker. I would also have a non lifting floor. If LEGO were making this it would be designed for 8-12 year olds who have much smaller hands. It would use less pieces and be more sturdy. The set looks fun but is too open. Aside from that I must say this is an excellent MOC. It fits with the theme so well and the art design is very fitting and well made. Any fan of the western theme would be proud to own this I imagine. *y* MOC on! Quote
Brick Miner Posted June 6, 2006 Author Posted June 6, 2006 My main objection is also the airiness, I think if Lego were doing this they would have replaced the arches with new stickered windows to giver a more solid lookgreat suggestion !!! i have to admit that the airiness is keeping this set from blending with GOLD CITY JUNCTION and SHERIFF'S LOCK-UP. and i think LEGO would have used the 1x4x5 windows with stickers... as they used this technique with both the fore mentioned sets. as i mentioned before though, i needed the fence consistency to make the over all design flow. but your suggestion has got me thinking, what if i made stickers for the 1x4x5 windows with the fence pattern on them. along with other designs (like broken shot-through glass pattern, or wanted posters in the windows, maybe a dead-flower trough) would conceal the building and add to the solution of the "airiness."i just have to get some clear label printer sheets now (oh, and get to designing) !!! thanks Norro, for the inspiration !!! I would also have a non-lifting floor. If LEGO were making this it would be designed for 8-12 year olds who have much smaller hands.nice argument. however, i still believe LEGO would have done the hinged roof... and i have suggestive evidence. FORT LEGOREDO, it has a hinged roof for a similar table/chair feature. because they used it in that case, i feel strongly in my decision.it is true that an 8-12 year old's hands are smaller than an adult, but their motor skills aren't as developed. i have learned this through my profession, that i have much more acute hand skills now than i did when i was 12 !!! I would also add a 2x plate just under the saloon sticker.i am curious, a 2x? plate. where would you position it ??? and what purpose would it fill ???-------------------------------------------------- i want to go back to the brickster comment now... The use of some window shutter doors for saloon doors in the middle of the first floor would add a nice element of design.i have tried, and tried to come up with some solution to saloon style doors, but i can't get anything to work !!! the window shutters you mention are only 2 studs wide. when you put two of them side-by-side (attached at the ends from each wall, which takes up one stud each) you only cover a total area of 2 studs... i feel 4 studs is necessary for a door walkway (all doors for minifigs are a minimum of 4 studs in system releases). all attempts have failed at using the window shutters, do you have any reference of an MOC that applied them successfully ???the only piece i have found that will work for a 4 stud wide walkway is the hinged train gate. im currently working a new design to include them. -------------------------------------------------- ok, great discussion so far. and i thank everyone for their input. i have read it all, and taken it into seriously consideration. it is all much appreciated. keep it coming if you have it !!! -------------------------------------------------- ok, we have had great talk about the structure itself, and about the table/chair/magnet system... now, i wanted to share more of the minifigs. i don't feel i represented them fully in my initial post. and of course, discussion is encouraged !!! -------------------------------------------------- THE SALOON OWNER. an obvious (and first) choice for inclusion in this set. i almost needed to create a fifth classification of mini-figs in the western theme for this set. LEGO gave us 1) CALVERY, 2) COWBOYS, 3) BANDITS, and 4) NATIVE AMERICANS. because they never really expanded the gambling theme, they never had to create the fifth classification, GAMBLER. this is where the saloon owner fits in. ABOUT HIM: he's not quite a cowboy, not quite a bandit... he is a gambler who cheats "safely" (only when he knows he can get away with it) !!! he keeps his cool, and appears very confident. see, he has to... as he runs the most dangerous joint in all of LEGOREDO !!! as much as he hates to admit it, he needs the SHERIFF of LEGOREDO. otherwise, order would be lost in his saloon. -------------------------------------------------- THE ENTERTAINER. or as brickster called her "scarlet." LEGO never gave us any female westerners, and a saloon girl is a must have for this set... so, i tried the castle maiden torsos (both the blue and the green one) and also the female pirate torso, but none blended seamlessly enough. i ended up making custom decals for the torso and the dress. i did a lot of research for the design (went to the library, searched google) but ended up using a saloon girl halloween costume pattern for the design !!! i had a lot of fun making this one, and is probably my favorite minifig in the set. ABOUT HER: a very neutral (but dangerous) character in LEGOREDO, playing for no team except her own. to put this in perspective, she has been known to have close relations with SHERIFF DUKE, and with the infamous trio, the FLATFOOT THOMPSON GANG. don't turn your back on her, for she has a deadly dagger tipped parasol !!! -------------------------------------------------- THE BANDIT. this officially released mini fig was the inspiration behind the entire MOC. so his inclusion was a no-brainer !!! my goal was to blend seamlessly, by including this minifig and MOCed minifigs together, i came one step closer. ABOUT HIM: one member of the FLAT FOOT THOMPSON GANG. infamous gambler and card shark. known through out LEGOREDO to have an ace up each sleeve, and a bullet in each chamber !!! -------------------------------------------------- THE SHERIFF. again, by including the sheriff, i keep this MOC grounded, by not being too much "my own thing." keeps the official LEGO wild west feel around. i figured the sheriff would be a good choice, to balance out the good guys/bad guys ratio. and every LEGO set needs a hero, right ??? ABOUT HIM: SHERIFF DUKE is the law-of-the-land. and though the GUNSLINGERS SALOON gets rough, he always gets rougher !!! personal alliances help him keep in touch with the LEGOREDO underground. though, most don't speak a word, as FLATFOOT THOMPSON is a feared name !!! -------------------------------------------------- THE GAMBLER. i felt i needed one more gambler to portray the "rowdiness" of the saloon. though this fig is my lease fav of the MOC, i just had to use that minifig head !!! it was just too perfect for the wild west theme !!! ABOUT HIM: a railroad tycoon and gambler, LEGOREDO is just one small stop for him on this way to riches. but don't trust a word he says !!! Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted June 8, 2006 Governor Posted June 8, 2006 What intrigues me the most (at the moment) is how you did the background - have you taken existing Western set box art and used it to create this background, or did you design it yourself entirely from scratch?the backgrounds are a combination of both, scanning images from boxes, and recreating completely from scratch. the bg mountain, bg cactus, foreground cactus, and all of the box logos are scanned and modified from box art. where as, the sky and ground are all created in photoshop. the dust bowls on the ground are done by using a filter in photoshop called "motion blur." Which box(es) did you use in particular for this current background? I've thought about doing this to create an authentic looking pirate background for ages but haven't really found many suitable boxes to use for images because the set gets in the way. Then I suppose it depends on how much you create yourself and how much time you're willing to put into it because with much dilligence and some inguinity the set could be totally erased using the cloning and smudge (and whatever other tools like that are at your disposal). Exactly how did you create the skys in Photoshop? Quote
Norro Posted June 8, 2006 Posted June 8, 2006 as i mentioned before though, i needed the fence consistency to make the over all design flow. but your suggestion has got me thinking, what if i made stickers for the 1x4x5 windows with the fence pattern on them. along with other designs (like broken shot-through glass pattern, or wanted posters in the windows, maybe a dead-flower trough) would conceal the building and add to the solution of the "airiness." This is actually what I was suggesting (decal fences on the windows, but my over occupied brain and under speed typing fingers left it as only implied...) God Bless, Nathan Quote
Brick Miner Posted June 9, 2006 Author Posted June 9, 2006 This is actually what I was suggesting (decal fences on the windows, but my over occupied brain and under speed typing fingers left it as only implied...)well, thanks for your HALF suggestion ;-) !!! it seems, that once you mentioned the 1x4x5 window, we both started thinking the SAME thing !!!-------------------------------------------------- Which box(es) did you use in particular for this current background?i scanned box art from sets 5978 (yes, adventurers !!!), 6755, 6761, and 6799. but out of those, i can't tell you which piece came from where.I've thought about doing this to create an authentic looking pirate background for ages but haven't really found many suitable boxes to use for images because the set gets in the way.ok, well since your question, i did some pirate research on brickset. i wanted to see what the backgrounds looked like, and if it would be easier to "recreate" or "scan-clone-smudge."what i found is that pirates will be HARD either way !!! the reason is a lot of the imagery on the pirate boxes are actually physical pieces of clay, or rocks or whatever they use ??? im sure some kind of "miniatures" terminology would come in here... but im a digital artist, not a 3D sculpture. also, there is an obvious difference in technique between the pirate backgrounds and wild west AND adventurers backgrounds. pirates look physically painted to me... where as WW and ADs look digital... i would have no problem recreating the later two themes in photoshop. but pirates would be tricky. :'-( there are a lot of examples of this, but 6266 is a good one. if you look, the closest mound is physically there... and the other two mounds, sky, and water are painted. if it was me, i would probably recreate the background digitally... i didn't see any images on brickset that would be suitable for the "scan-clone-smudge" method... plus that would take entirely too long, and the results would be inferior to recreating... at least from my experience. Exactly how did you create the skys in Photoshop?that could take a few paragraphs to explain :-/ ... i would be willing to work up a tutorial (complete with step-by-step images)... do you think that would be worth my time ??? i would want to tackle it from a beginners point of view, using photoshop. i would try to keep it open to all themes... but obviously i would favor WW-adventurers-pirate-castle. only because i actually show personal interest there !!! *sweet*-------------------------------------------------- I really like how you created a story for every character in the set, that really adds a lot to the Mocthanks so much for adding that X-D ... i had a lot of fun writing them. and surprisingly came to me pretty easy !!! Quote
Merkel Posted June 14, 2006 Posted June 14, 2006 For the Saloon Doors, you could use the window shutters, if you put the bricks with the holding clips facing each other. Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted June 14, 2006 Governor Posted June 14, 2006 what i found is that pirates will be HARD either way !!! the reason is a lot of the imagery on the pirate boxes are actually physical pieces of clay, or rocks or whatever they use ??? im sure some kind of "miniatures" terminology would come in here... but im a digital artist, not a 3D sculpture. also, there is an obvious difference in technique between the pirate backgrounds and wild west AND adventurers backgrounds. pirates look physically painted to me... where as WW and ADs look digital... i would have no problem recreating the later two themes in photoshop. but pirates would be tricky. :'-( there are a lot of examples of this, but 6266 is a good one. if you look, the closest mound is physically there... and the other two mounds, sky, and water are painted.if it was me, i would probably recreate the background digitally... i didn't see any images on brickset that would be suitable for the "scan-clone-smudge" method... plus that would take entirely too long, and the results would be inferior to recreating... at least from my experience. Yes, the earlier Pirate box artwork seems to have physical components but to me that isn't really a problem - no different to the latter box artwork which appears to have drawn scenery. If I wanted to spend the time I suppose I could eventually get something that worked, but I'm not sure I want to spend the great amount of time it would take to do that. How long (approximately) did it take you to make your Western brackground, Mr Brick Miner? Quote
Brick Miner Posted June 14, 2006 Author Posted June 14, 2006 How long (approximately) did it take you to make your Western background, Mr Brick Miner?the actual digitally-made-from-scratch sky and ground was the quickest thing to make... i'd say maybe a half-hour. the part that took forever was taking the digital photos of the MOC and erasing the background !!! that took near 12 hours for all the images you see in this thread !!!here is a shot of just the background that you are asking about... again, probably 20-30 minutes. really just a series of colors fading in-and-out of each other. If I wanted to spend the time I suppose I could eventually get something that worked, but I'm not sure I want to spend the great amount of time it would take to do that.this brings up an interesting thought... see, its obvious AFOLs spend a lot of time on their MOCs... and its very evident in the multiple thousand piece castles on CC. however, just as much time can be spent on making your MOC look gorgeous in the digital world, which is ultimately the finished piece. at least to the rest of the world via mocpages.com, brickshelf, and on forums like EB. that is where a lot of my efforts go. so where as im not building the biggest-and-the-best western fort , i think it Quote
Governor Mister Phes Posted June 17, 2006 Governor Posted June 17, 2006 YES !!! it takes a lot of time to make a well thought through MOC. are you up to it Phes ??? :-P and im just teasing when i say that, of course you want to make a nice well thought through MOC. :-D Teasing or not I have to be honest and say "No, I don't think I'm up to it at the moment". I've got so many projects going on at the moment I think putting that much effort into creating a decent authentic Pirate background would exhaust me too much. At the moment I want to finish design the Pirate fourm skin, then promote the pirate forum, also I'd like to finish the MOC I began a couple of weeks and do a Pictorial Review of a certain Pirate set. All of that is just for my LEGO hobby! Fortunately I have a 4 week break from university but in that time I've also got to work on completing websites for paying clients, then possibly do some more work to the Eurobricks website. Plus I'm also working on an animated project with Jipay (and I think Apo - not sure of his current involvement). Then after 4 weeks I'll have all new university projects to contend with! So AAAAAAAARGH!!! Quote
WesternOutlaw Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I like choice #1 the best BM. Even though the walkway is narrow, it looks the best. As another idea, would there be any way to use large green window shutters. I never tried attaching them to anything other than a window frame? Does such a piece exist? Quote
WesternOutlaw Posted June 17, 2006 Posted June 17, 2006 I came across two other saloons that use the inward shudder construction (4 studs apart). It does have a gap, but when the doors are somewhat open, it doesn't look too bad: Quote
Brick Miner Posted June 18, 2006 Author Posted June 18, 2006 As another idea, would there be any way to use large green window shutters. I never tried attaching them to anything other than a window frame? Does such a piece exist?ya, i've looked at those green shutters too. the ones that are 3x5... that would give me a 4 stud walk way. but i can find a piece that will hold the shutters other than the window frame your suggesting. plus, that would be two really tall saloon doors... i mean, 5 bricks high !!!the best piece would be the window shutter 1x2x4. they look just like saloon doors. but im still not into the 2 stud walkway. if i was just MOCing with no rules than maybe... but i just can't convince myself that this is the technique that LEGO would have applied. but thanks for you imput brickster, on which of the above techniques you liked best. by the way, regarding that saloon you posted... i think its funny that the sign has a period after the word "saloon." :-D :-D :-D - BrickMiner Quote
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