legotrainfan Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 Hello guys! I need your help in deciding which battery box I should buy to power my Emerald Night. The AAA Battery Box (88000) is much cheaper than the rechargeable one. However, what advantages/disadvantages does each type of battery box have? Which one permits you to run the Emerald Night for a longer period of time, for instance? Quote
JopieK Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 You are comparing 'apples with pears'. The LiPo has standard specs. The one for batteries doesn't so it depends on the kind of batteries you put inside. See here for info about the LiPo: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=45963 And here: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=41779 Quote
Frankie Roberto Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 The rechargeable one also has the advantage that you can recharge it without having to remove the battery box from your model (in this case the tender of the Emerald Night). It is a lot more expensive though (especially with the power adapter). But at least you won't have to buy batteries for it. Quote
AndyC Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 One other advantage of the 8878 is that it has a speed controller on the battery box itself. Not a big deal if you're using it in conjunction with the remote controller, but if you just wanted to run a model constantly at one speed (or build a creation where the battery box is in a suitable place for a controller) then it can be handy. Quote
Pet-Lego Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 I wonder what the life expectancy is on the 8878 LiPo, will it still function after 30 years? The AAA battery box 88000 has batteries you can change and I don't see the AAA size disappear (hopefully improvements in quality though) I'm sticking with the AAA box and my AAA rechargeable batteries (less pricey for me and hopefully better suited in the long run 10+ years) Quote
BMW Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 The other posts have hit on the main differences. If you are only buying it for the Emerald Night then go with the AAA version. Its 1/2 the price (assuming you buy rechargeable batteries) and the batts you buy will almost certainly be higher capacity than the Lego's Lio. Having said that... the Lio's recharging jack is very convenient, especially if you put a lot of hours on your trains (as in doing train shows) or eventually will build it into a different train/MOC with a battery location less accessible than the Emerald Night's tender. I use both. - BMW Quote
hoeij Posted February 6, 2011 Posted February 6, 2011 (edited) Hello guys! I need your help in deciding which battery box I should buy to power my Emerald Night. The AAA Battery Box (88000) is much cheaper than the rechargeable one. However, what advantages/disadvantages does each type of battery box have? Which one permits you to run the Emerald Night for a longer period of time, for instance? I have an 8878, and I use it for the train, but also for lego technic (it's very convenient for that!). At home it lasts a long time because it's unusual to have it running non-stop for a long period of time. I also used the EN at our local train show, and if I remember correctly, last year it ran 3 hours on the 8878 and this year only a little over 2 hours (don't know why). However, this year I brought a 88000 as a backup. If you're using this battery box for only one thing, then I'd try to save some money and put rechargeable batteries in the 88000. I have not tested how long it will run on 6 rechargeable AAA batteries, but my guess is that it'll be at least a couple of hours. Note that you have to make a couple of changes to the EN train itself, otherwise it won't run problem-free for several hours (there have been a number of threads on this issue, and it's also in railbricks magazine #7 (you definitely want to download that and read it)). Edited February 6, 2011 by hoeij Quote
Tearloch33 Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I also used the EN at our local train show, and if I remember correctly, last year it ran 3 hours on the 8878 and this year only a little over 2 hours (don't know why). However, this year I brought a 88000 as a backup. LiPo batteries are known to act like this if the charging cycles are not managed well. Quote
BMW Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 I also used the EN at our local train show, and if I remember correctly, last year it ran 3 hours on the 8878 and this year only a little over 2 hours (don't know why). Assuming same load and battery charging I would suspect your Emerald Night is wearing in with increased friction. Quote
retrotecchie Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 LiPo batteries have not been around for so long so the technology isn't as 'proven' as Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) or Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries. They have a far higher energy density, that is to say you can cram more watt-hours of charge in a given size, but the lifespan is far less than NiCd/NiMH....perhaps 100-150 cycles compared to almost 500 for 'looked after' NiMH. Decent NiMH batteries like Sanyo Eneloop AAA pack 1000mAh of punch into the standard AAA package....which is about twice as much run-time as you get from Alkaline (disposable) batteries, but you need to remember. Alkalines give 1.5v which drops off slowly. A 6 AAA alkiline pack therefore gives 9v, dropping off pretty linearly. Rechargeables give off 1.2v but that stays pretty constant until they are almost exhausted, and then the voltage drops off rapidly. The LiPo battery pack develops 11.2v (3.7 ish Volts per cell, 3 cells) so will run any train proportionally faster (11.2/9 =124%) and as the 9v trains are already too fast on the highest speed with a good 9v pack, there is some benefit to running on rechargeable 1.2v NiMH cells. In actual fact, a pack of 4 AAA batteries in a 4.8v pack seems to be optimum for trains. A 4 x AAA holder fits nicely in a slightly smaller dimension than the LEGO battery box, of either flavour so you will have no trouble getting it in the space. If you hack the feed wire off your PF receiver and fit a PP3 battery snap, then something like the Maplin 4xAAA battery holder is the perfect substitute for the LEGO pack. Without a switch, I can leave an IR receiver on 'standby' for almost two weeks without worrying about switching it off. Otherwise, pop the PP3 snap off or fit an in-line switch. Quote
Toastie Posted February 7, 2011 Posted February 7, 2011 LiPo batteries have not been around for so long so the technology isn't as 'proven' as Nickel Cadmium (NiCd) or Nickel Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries. They have a far higher energy density, that is to say you can cram more watt-hours of charge in a given size, but the lifespan is far less than NiCd/NiMH....perhaps 100-150 cycles compared to almost 500 for 'looked after' NiMH. Hi there, well I'd like to challenge that ... I'm using the LEGO LiPo now for about one year. I don't know how many times I recharged it - maybe not 100 times but it is close; however, one thing is for sure: I had more issues with a 'looked after NiMH' than with TLC's LiPo. There is virtually no memory effect on that thing. Off for a month, turned it on, it's there. The built in circuit obviously takes very well care of the two LiPo cells. I guess TLC's is shooting for the long range. BTW: Same thing in cell phones. I recharged my cell phone (running on a LiPo) for WAY more than 150 times - no problems at all. I guess we should clarify : TLC's LiPo comes with a very well matching built-in charging electronics (OK: as fas as I am concerned, EGurus may have a different opinion). And with that they seem to run extremely efficient. On the other hand: Without that smart electronics, a LiPo is a potentially explosive device in your hand (I am a chemists and I do enjoy seeing the power of chemically stored energy ... if you go to extremes, LiPos are one way to illustrate that). In between, a wrongly charged LiPo may suffer from poor lifetime. Hope that puts things into perspective ... All the best, Thorsten Quote
Sir E Fullner Posted February 14, 2011 Posted February 14, 2011 Go with the rechargeable. It may be expensive, but so are batteries. The triple-A Battery Box eats batteries like a crocodile! Quote
retrotecchie Posted February 15, 2011 Posted February 15, 2011 (edited) Go with the rechargeable. It may be expensive, but so are batteries. The triple-A Battery Box eats batteries like a crocodile! Maplin Electronics in the UK.....12 pack of AAA 1000mAh NiMH batteries.....£9.99. They usually have Buy One Get One Free on batteries, so I just picked up 24 AAA rechargeables for £9.99! Or around US$ 13. OK, you get 7.2v out of the battery box, rather than the full 9v for alkaline, but Power Functions is perfectly happy with that voltage and even on top speed, your trains don't come off the track! Edited February 15, 2011 by retrotecchie Quote
legotrainfan Posted February 16, 2011 Author Posted February 16, 2011 Thanks for your views and advice. I think I'm going to buy the rechargeable battery box 8878. Quote
nicoga3000 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Kind of a phantom bump here - but can you buy the AAA battery box anywhere? I'm sketchy on the rechargeable one... Quote
Matt Barton Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Kind of a phantom bump here - but can you buy the AAA battery box anywhere? I'm sketchy on the rechargeable one... Sadly, it doesn't look like any are for sale on BrickLink and LEGO doesn't sell them in the USA. :-( http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItem.asp?S=88000-1 http://shop.LEGO.com/Product/?p=88000 Quote
nicoga3000 Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Lame - well thanks anyways! :P I'll probably just have to buy the rechargeable if I have any hopes of running multiple trains. The reviews seem OK on it, I just don't trust rechargeable as much, ha. Quote
AndyC Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 Lame - well thanks anyways! :P I'll probably just have to buy the rechargeable if I have any hopes of running multiple trains. The reviews seem OK on it, I just don't trust rechargeable as much, ha. If you search by the part number Bricklink uses, rather than the set (which isn't out yet AFAIK) you can see quite a few for sale that have presumably been parted out of the new 2010 train sets. http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?q=bb466 Quote
9Benua Posted February 20, 2011 Posted February 20, 2011 (edited) Do TLC has any plan to sell the AAA Battery Box (88000) in US? I'm not interested to buy the 8878 and the charger. Btw, Thank's for the info AndyC Edited February 20, 2011 by 9Benua Quote
hoeij Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Do TLC has any plan to sell the AAA Battery Box (88000) in US? I'm not interested to buy the 8878 and the charger. Btw, Thank's for the info AndyC bricklink has this part (name: bb466) for around $20. Quote
peterab Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Kind of a phantom bump here - but can you buy the AAA battery box anywhere? I'm sketchy on the rechargeable one... Bricklink or Ebay perhaps, at the moment, but it appears it will be available from the Lego website some time in the future to add to the new train exclusive 10219 that is coming. Quote
Frankie Roberto Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 Bricklink or Ebay perhaps, at the moment, but it appears it will be available from the Lego website some time in the future to add to the new train exclusive 10219 that is coming. Yup, it should available to buy later in the year. Hopefully the rechargeable battery box will continue to be available, giving people a choice. Quote
BelValcor Posted February 21, 2011 Posted February 21, 2011 The LiPo battery pack develops 11.2v (3.7 ish Volts per cell, 3 cells) so will run any train proportionally faster (11.2/9 =124%) and as the 9v trains are already too fast on the highest speed with a good 9v pack, there is some benefit to running on rechargeable 1.2v NiMH cells. In actual fact, a pack of 4 AAA batteries in a 4.8v pack seems to be optimum for trains. A 4 x AAA holder fits nicely in a slightly smaller dimension than the LEGO battery box, of either flavour so you will have no trouble getting it in the space. I was wondering if you have tested the speeds of the LiPo (or a standard battery setup) against the 4 x AAA option you mentioned here. Does the 4.8v setup perform proportionally slower? By this I mean are ALL speed settings slower? I would like to make a switching layout (eventually) and find even the slowest speed a bit quick... more practice is needed I guess Bel Quote
Bernie56 Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 The rechargeable one also has the advantage that you can recharge it without having to remove the battery box from your model (in this case the tender of the Emerald Night). It is a lot more expensive though (especially with the power adapter). But at least you won't have to buy batteries for it. I concur on the convenience part of this battery pack (8878). It is expensive and I got ripped off buying from Amazon where I paid nearly $75 (and had to pay extra for the 10V wall charger unit) whereas today I saw at Lego.com the same unit priced at ~$49. Quote
Brickimad Posted February 22, 2011 Posted February 22, 2011 I'm wondering if there is a low-discharge prevention circuit on the li-Poly pack. I also fly RC model planes, and if you over-discharge Li-poly cells, they are permanently damaged - won't re-charge, or give duration which it had before. I am thinking of making a 2s pack up and using my Li-poly charger to recharge, balance the cells as it charges) (2s= 2cell @ 3.7v nom x2, giving 7.4v nom, in series). Beware, though, short-circuiting can cause fire, which is nasty! Quote
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