Classic Castle- What Makes it So Good?

[WesternOutlaw]

I was recently thumbing through some old classic castle images admiring the "Old Sets of Yore", and began thinking, "what made the Classic Castle sets so good?

A few reasons why, perhaps: Was it the set designs?, use of standard bricks? multiple figs that let you create an army? piece and color selection? unique designs that were new to Lego? or a combination of a few of these reasons? and/or others?

Discuss why you think Classic Castle was so successful and what does Lego need to do to recreate the interest in castle? *knight*

[Berry Syedow]

Part of its popularity is that it was the only castle line at the time. There was no competition. No castle line to compare it to, thus it became the standard. What if a more fanciful take had been implemented beforehand? Would kids be disappointed by a classic-castle line thereafter?

Classic-castle

[alex54]

I think that the fact to hacve an entire closed castle make it sucessfull. In fact the old CC were totally closed, I mean there is no space where a minifig could go trough. :-P

More seriously, I think the big difference is the design. In fact, CC are more beautifull than the KK and the "new CC that is no one". The new ones have a unfinished design feeling, it is just like bricks are one on other just to look good, but without details. So we find some walls that are not totally closed!

An other exemple is the entry of the caste. A sweet drawbridge with great harrows make a very good value.

I don't think that the use of few junorized pieces could make a casstle bad, TLC just has not to abuse of them.

I don't think that a castle have to be modular to be succesfull. In fact, some beautifull CC like the big lion one (6090) is not so modulare compared to the big black dragon (6085).

But all these CC have some playability aspects like trap door, secret way, catapulte and a lot of minifigs!

[gylman]

That's a tough question. I may edit in more answers.

1) the old castles looked like castles (6080, 6085, 6086). I'm not sure what the Castle of Morcia, or Vladek's, or the Tower of Ages or whatever look like, but not castles.

2) The old castles were constructed nearly brick by brick except for those wall-window sections which I must confess I never liked. Due to the large number of large pieces in recent castles, I would describe the process with modern castles as often more of "assembly", rather than "building".

3) The colours were far more sensible with classic castle

4) The building was downright clever for some of the older castles (6074 for example)

http://www.peeron.com/scans/6074-1/5/

[WesternOutlaw]

Wow! You all make very good points and I can't say I disagree with any of them.

Berry: I love the thought of having modular castle structures as part of different sets. This would make expansion possible and create some very interesting castles. Size would only be limited on how many sets you have. The villagers/townsfolk ("peasant life" as you call it) definately needs to be expanded. Sets like the Guarded Inn and the Blacksmith Shop are some classic examples. It's not all about fighting and weapons, but shops/mercantile add a lot of interest to castle. This really adds to "play value" for all ages.

Alex: I really agree with the "unfinished design" you mention in regard to KK. I own a number of the KK sets and completely understand what you're saying. They just aren't complete. They aren't closed and don't look like castles at all, but rather unfinished sections that should be part of a larger set.

Gylman: the old sets did take numerous pieces constructed "brick-by-brick" but had an abundance of pieces that allowed much more creativity in building other variations/MOCs. And the sets were very cleverly designed. I purchased Black Falcon's Fortress (6074) as a Legend not having had any other classic castle sets other than the old Yellow Castle (aside from the Legends). It's an awesome set and although not very large, very detailed and well designed.

I think in looking at most of the Classic Castle sets, I think it's the overall design that makes them outstanding. They weren't just a "mish-mash" of pieces that an inexperienced Lego builder might put together, but designed well, and to use Gylman's description, "clever". They looked good and didn't need fancy box-art to give them an appearance that said, "buy-me".

As far as the future of castle goes with Lego, they need to return to the basics. Go back to bricks and not BURPS, LURPS, and other pre-fab wall pieces; and if these pieces are used, combine them with standard pieces filling in the gaps/holes. I'm rather disappointed with Lego's recent Legend, because it's not a Legend at all but rather a castle that appeared after Classic Castle and just before KK. What makes this set a Legend? Give us some of the early grey castles. Perhaps these sets are too costly to re-create? Not sure why but these are Legends.

[gylman]

I'm rather disappointed with Lego's recent Legend, because it's not a Legend at all but rather a castle that appeared after Classic Castle and just before KK. What makes this set a Legend? Give us some of the early grey castles. Perhaps these sets are too costly to re-create? Not sure why but these are Legends.

Agree that they hardly picked a "legend" with this pseudo 6090.

6080, 6085, 6086 - those are legends. Even a smaller re-release like 6066 or 6077 from the Forestmen would be a treat.

It seems to me that a castle made of basic bricks would be cheaper to make than one with specialized pieces, but then we are talking many more bricks numerically. Also the old sets seemed significantly more generous with figs, and those cost money.

Oh well, time and time again I have to remind myself that they are not selling to me, but to a 6-12 year old audience.

[WesternOutlaw]

Oh well, time and time again I have to remind myself that they are not selling to me, but to a 6-12 year old audience.

This is true, but Classic Castle was intended for that same audience. What has changed? Perhaps the price of ABS? Did older sets have more material in them? Is this why KK sets appear more open and "unfinished"? Maybe it's all about the price of plastic, rather than any change in the child market?

[Mister Phes]

I'm rather disappointed with Lego's recent Legend, because it's not a Legend at all but rather a castle that appeared after Classic Castle and just before KK. What makes this set a Legend? Give us some of the early grey castles. Perhaps these sets are too costly to re-create? Not sure why but these are Legends.

Agree that they hardly picked a "legend" with this pseudo 6090.

Why is the LEGO Company trying to pass 6090 off as a Legend when there is half a dozen other large castles that are so much better?

[WesternOutlaw]

Why is the LEGO Company trying to pass 6090 off as a Legend when there is half a dozen other large castles that are so much better?

Exactly! It's not a bad set, but it's not a Legend in my opinion, and I think other classic castle fans would agree. Who decides what sets become Legends? There was definately no vote for this set. To tell you the truth, I think Lego discovered surplus supply of this set in one of it's warehouses (because it never sold way back when), and made some modifications, added a few new pieces, and slapped the name LEGEND on it.

[christopher110]

I wish all classic castles will come back as LEGEND coz I never had chance to own when they were released back then....... Pls... TLC :'-)

[gylman]

Why is the LEGO Company trying to pass 6090 off as a Legend when there is half a dozen other large castles that are so much better?

Exactly! It's not a bad set, but it's not a Legend in my opinion, and I think other classic castle fans would agree. Who decides what sets become Legends? There was definately no vote for this set. To tell you the truth, I think Lego discovered surplus supply of this set in one of it's warehouses (because it never sold way back when), and made some modifications, added a few new pieces, and slapped the name LEGEND on it.

That would be a sad and cynical thing. I doubt it. I think that the dumbing down of the castle sets relates to Legos attempt to cope with the diminishing attention span and "free play time" available to the kids of today vs the kids of 20 years ago.

Classic castle was much more about building. KK3 is more about roleplaying. I think that TLC believes that if they made the castle take too long to build, the kids would just give up and go play a game on their PC, or watch TV or play with their transformers toys that come prebuilt.

Frankly, and sadly, they may be right.

[WesternOutlaw]

The original 6090 is a very nice Classic Castle. Here's an image of the real thing:

And here's an image of 10176, the re-release:

And this is set 6091/6098, King Leo's Castle, which I think looks more like the re-release:

[gylman]

The King

[WesternOutlaw]

The King

[Athos]

It had a nice balance of realism and fun. It didn't rely on colorful gimmicky characters, so older children/adults could appreciate it, but still was idealized enough that younger children could play too. Most (if not all) pieces could be easily incorporated into other models. Unlike the more recent sets, where people have to take a great deal of effort and ingenuity to find other uses for so many pieces. Good variety of factions, so we didn't have a million villains and five million heroes.

Just my thoughts off the top of my head,

Steve

[Mister Phes]

Actually, I always hated King Leo's castle - it's the only classic castle I don't own, and never planned to unless one fell from the sky and bonked me on the head.

Wasn't King Leo's Castle part of the first Knights Kingdom theme released in 2000, so therefore its not Classic Castle. That might explain why you don't want to own it.

[gylman]

Actually, I always hated King Leo's castle - it's the only classic castle I don't own, and never planned to unless one fell from the sky and bonked me on the head.

Wasn't King Leo's Castle part of the first Knights Kingdom theme released in 2000, so therefore its not Classic Castle. That might explain why you don't want to own it.

Quite so. I used the wrong term. Substittue "large Lego castle from the 20th century" for "classic" in that senten ce of mine.

[Dino_Bot]

One of my cousins donated me the last remnants of her original yellow castle, which by the way, was a beauty. I had very little pieces left, including a broken baseplate, and enough to make a small 2 floor building...Somehow those last remnant were lost in the sands of time rather recently...

[SuvieD]

Catapults, knights and Robinhood. That is what made it great for me. Action and adventure with swords and siege.

Nothing else matters to an eight year old.

I think with all the new and better parts a new classic would be easy to make. No stories, no space knights, just plain sets, with plain bricks, a few features, some nice figures and some good accessories would make a great set.

I really do think the latest castle sets (except that stupid new 10176) are indeed the best castle sets created in the last 15 years. If they had a few dozen bricks included in each set they would be even better.

[Hobbes]

With "castle" I've always associated knights, (blocky) castles (as in fortress), king arthur, knights templar and the like. Castles have to look like this or this. That is middle ages, that is castle. That is still my opinion today. That's why I like MOCs like this.

KK is plain "fantasy". I always think of saving fair princesses from bad dragons. While castles like this do look cool (and I like fantasy stories), it's not what I associate "castle" with. It's "fantasy castle" that comes to my mind. I mean... magenta knights?!?!?!?! *wacko*

As for the LEGO sets: can't really add anything that hasn't been said already. The sets just looked the way I imagined knights and castles. And the wall pieces were/are the only "<insert that tiresome argument>" pieces I actually like(d).

:-)

[SWMAN]

Great figures with cool designs, and lots of them. Allowed for massive army building and battles. Also, cool castles and other buildings.