DEBRIEF: To sail the Technic sea

[Siegfried]

Stop! Don't pack up my TSTTS "set" yet! I still have the feedback to do!

These questions (bar one ) are very important. I will take note of these results when planning future contests. If any question is not clear ask for details, and feel free to post extra thoughts/idea here as well. The results are not (easily) identifiable to any particular member so be as blunt as you want in your voting... but I do ask that no one posts any personal comments in regard to any one MOC. IF anyone has any ideas of future contests you can post them here too.

One thing I will clarify is the prizes. As contests go, this was a big contest. For a particular theme we (EB) can't afford to do more than one like this a year. I'm hoping next contest I can get prizes from TLG and that would make a difference, but for the purpose of this poll, this was a big contest.

Vote away!

Contest Index

[DLuders]

Thanks, Sinner, for hosting the "To Sail The Technic Sea" contest. My only suggestion is that the public voting phase NOT be "Frontpaged" on Eurobricks. The non-Technic people (whose votes may have overwhelmed the regular visitors to this forum) may not have really UNDERSTOOD the complexities of each Technic entry. Although I did not place an entry into the contest, I was a bit disappointed that a non-Technic creation won 2nd Place:

I know that the Steampunk Shark Submersible is a fine creation, but I'm afraid that the non-Technic peoples' votes pushed it to the top, ahead of many more worthy Technic entries. This was not a "Steampunk" contest.

[Lipko]

I agree with DLuders on the frontpage part (but not on the 2nd prize part ).

I have suggestions, the first is a tricky one:

1. Size limit. I think not-limiting the size of the entries introduces unfairness to contests. Size does matter, especially in a public poll, where (as DLuders pointed out) the majority of the voters are not Technic builders.

This contest proved that idea wins over size, but also proved that bigger size gives advantage to the builder, and two very creative stuff could only beat the big-guys. To be clear, I think the air-plane is a wonderful MOC, but it's too Big-gun MOC for a contest. It has more pieces than the total inventory of some builders (including me). It's easier to add many functions to a bigger model, and it's mere size was so impressive that it had considerable influence on the outcome (public voting comes in again). We had two impressive planes, the smaller with the less consistent color palette had no chance.

Efferman's boat was very cool, but IMHO, apart from the very interesting propeller design and the fact it actually floated, there were more interesting models with more interesting features.

2. Please, be more strict with time-lines. 2-3 days is okay, but almost 2 weeks extra is too much. This would be the only drawback of building big models, and if there's no strict timeline, "nothing" will stop building over-sized-for-a-contest models. And that actually happened, the big plane was half-ready at the time-line.

Other newbies and me probably didn't think that there will be this two extra weeks for building. If someone starts to build 2-3 weeks before the deadline, that two weeks can be crucial in deciding what to build. I would have built a different thing for example. Okay, maybe that's a personal problem...

I don't know how to limit the size though, I think it's something we should discuss.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Edit: another thing that may be important to discuss: importance of non-illegal techniques, and overall building techniques. Not some over-picky way, but at least to some extent. There was a (big-sized) winner (I call the first 6 winners) entry with a repeated impossible-to-disassemble construct for example.

This might be nit-picking, but this would fall into the category of "structurally sound" building in my opinion.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Lipko

[Alasdair Ryan]

I really enjoyed the contest.I think next time though it may be a good idea to have two contest's one at ether end of the year,these should have smaller prizes to what you had here mayby up to £50.

One could argue with David's point above that it might inspire people of the other forums to take part in building with technic.

[efferman]

i think we had a very good contest and many thanks for the parts which are arrived me, but i think we should get a part limit next time. my tugboat and some from the other models was very big and iam very happy that a small and creative entry has won the contest.

please change only this point, everything else on the contest was perfect

[dhc6twinotter]

Thanks to EB for a great competition!

I agree with what has been mentioned thus far, and I think some sort of part or size limit would be beneficial. A part limit is a good idea but may be somewhat difficult to enforce. I certainly don't count every piece that is in a moc. Maybe a size limit instead? Like a moc dimensions totaling less than 500 studs? This was my first competition, and size wise, I really didn't know what to expect from other members. We had a good mixture of different sized mocs, and, as illustrated in the competition, it doesn't take something big to win.

I prefer 1 competition, but perhaps two levels would work? One level would be for larger mocs with no size constraint, with another level for mocs under a certain size. 1st place prize for the larger level would be something like the Unimog, with 1st place prize for the smaller level something like the Backhoe. The only problem with this scenario is that mocs that are very unique but not parts intensive wouldn't be able to win the larger prize, so maybe this isn't a good idea after all. I dunno....just throwing out ideas.

2. Please, be more strict with time-lines. 2-3 days is okay, but almost 2 weeks extra is too much. This would be the only drawback of building big models, and if there's no strict timeline, "nothing" will stop building over-sized-for-a-contest models. And that actually happened, the big plane was half-ready at the time-line.

Other newbies and me probably didn't think that there will be this two extra weeks for building. If someone starts to build 2-3 weeks before the deadline, that two weeks can be crucial in deciding what to build. I would have built a different thing for example. Okay, maybe that's a personal problem...

The plane was done by the final deadline. See thread here. I wouldn't submit a half-built moc. That isn't fair to the other contestants.

Anyways, just my thoughts on that. Thanks again for a great competition!

[Lipko]

The plane was done by the final deadline. See thread here. I wouldn't submit a half-built moc. That isn't fair to the other contestants.

Anyways, just my thoughts on that. Thanks again for a great competition!

Yes, I know, that's why I suggested a more strict deadline, not one that can be adjusted 1-2-3 days before the advertised time-line :)

Maybe weight (but how to judge?) without batteries is a better measurement, since size can be too restricting. What is someone wants to build a long but thin model?

Or maybe judges should be so experienced, that they can judge by eye?

Anyhoo, this contest was great indeed, the next one will be even better!

Edited May 13, 2012 by Lipko

[parda]

I know that the Steampunk Shark Submersible is a fine creation, but I'm afraid that the non-Technic peoples' votes pushed it to the top, ahead of many more worthy Technic entries. This was not a "Steampunk" contest.

I agree with that, I love that creation but there's a bit "out of theme", but the technic meisters panel vote for it and get to the final voting stage... I know that is hard to left out beauty creations but this is a point to improve next time.

[Omikron]

I don't like the idea of parts limit and size limit.

Attaching more parts and projecting much bigger and complex MOC requires a lot of time and hard work because you simply have far more parts combinations to choose from to find one that fits, also some functions cannot be made in smaller scale.

How does one count parts if only photo available?

Parts count restriction is pointless.

[Wiseman_2]

I think it was rather nice to see some more esoteric entries rather than just a load of variations on boats (not that the boats were bad at all). If a Technic model of an insect can win, then why not one of a shark? Is it because it is infused with a little fantasy, rather than straight-up Technic?

Either way, I enjoyed watching this contest, there were some excellent MOCs in a theme that is slightly underrepresented in Technic; I just hope next time, we have a contest at a time when I can build and enter

[allanp]

I don't like the idea of parts limit and size limit.

Judging by your entry i'm not surprised

I agree with the size limitation. It forces you to build a MOC that's impressive because of how clever it is designed, not how big it is. I agree that this would help prevent the non-technic loving voters from distorting the results due to a lack of appriciation for technical ingenuety. I think it would be too difficult to have a piece count limit as the judges would have to count them which is more than impracticle from a few pictures. A size limit would be better and also easier for the builder to determine.

I think it was rather nice to see some more esoteric entries rather than just a load of variations on boats (not that the boats were bad at all). If a Technic model of an insect can win, then why not one of a shark? Is it because it is infused with a little fantasy, rather than straight-up Technic?

Well, a steampunk shark did come in second, how much more fantasy do you want?

If you are asking why the steampunk shark did not win, then I think it's because the designer of the model appears to have built it with looks as top priority, with functionality coming in second which (to me at least) is by deffinition not technic. As great as it is (much kudos to the designer) i'm not sure it should have come as high as second in a TECHNIC competition.

[MetroiD]

I think I most definitely fit in the "non-Technic" category (as described above), and as a non-Technic guy, I must admit I understand your gripes and the reasoning behind your desire for people who are not actively involved with Technic to refrain from voting since they can't really appreciate the models for what they're actually worth in terms of technical achievement. That said though, I think a lot can be said about how much this contest has helped liven up this part of the forum and, hopefully, bring more attention (and fans / MOCcers) to LEGO Technic in general. For one, I know that's definitely the case with me!

Besides, aren't you forgetting the panel factor here? The way I saw things, that was precisely why there was a panel to begin with - in order to ensure that non-Technic entries would not be allowed to dilute the vote. So in that sense, I can't agree with the bashing-of-sorts that the Steampunk Shark is being subjected to. No, I didn't vote for it precisely due to the reasons you've pointed out - in terms of technical achievement, there were MOCs that were much more complex. But that doesn't mean the Shark isn't a Technic MOC, after all - and an awesome looking one as well! It might not be able to float and not be loaded with other ingenious functions, but it's still very much Technic. Just as it has been the case with other contests, there are voters who appreciate form over function, and I think one has to accept that. In order to help alleviate this issue, I think that in future Technic contests, the judging panel and their votes should be more significant - with the potential of this process of getting nominated for a judge turning into an all-year-round contest of sorts in terms of valuable contribution towards the Technic Community.

[Wiseman_2]

Well, a steampunk shark did come in second, how much more fantasy do you want?

If you are asking why the steampunk shark did not win, then I think it's because the designer of the model appears to have built it with looks as top priority, with functionality coming in second which (to me at least) is by deffinition not technic. As great as it is (much kudos to the designer) i'm not sure it should have come as high as second in a TECHNIC competition.

That was more in response to DLuders' earlier post, I'm not asking why it didn't win, I was more simply defending its right to be in the competition in the first place...

And that's not to mention that the panel obviously felt it was good enough

I think a part count would be too difficult to enforce, but I don't think it would be entirely too hard to maybe include scale categories? When it went to the judging panel, they could decide if certain entries would be better suited to being placed in a different category if it was too large or small for its intended category.

[captainmib]

My 0.03$

1)

To find out that my entry was not worthy enough was a bit a 'meh' moment for me.

Ok, it wasnt that good and i didnt had much time to build something good, but there were other entries i found worthy to be voted for.

In my opinion, all entries should be able to enter the vote (ok, not if it's really bad and not related to the theme)

It's a bit harsh to find out the knights of the round table decided you have a win chance of exactly 0%...

So, in order to prevent this, give some good advice to novice builders - then they will be eager to improve next time

2)

Next time, a hard deadline would be nice. Not knowing if you have 5 days left or 2 weeks can make a BIG difference (knowing you will have an extra weekend with building time)

3)

On the other hand, this was a really nice contest, great prices and great entries.

The rules can be more cleare, and i would somewhat agree with a partcount-limit (for the smaller contests)

Keep on going!

[JunkstyleGio]

First of all: I can live with the final score.

Maybe some of the upcoming TECHNIC contests could be:

A) build a c-model of a set. For instance: the upcoming 9396 helicopter.

B) a free building contest, but the model must contain a few predefined (non-technical/system) parts.

C) a ldd-technic-parts only-contest with a maximum in parts (easy to control.)

D a model-team contest.

Furthermore:

The "knights of the round table" should have their way in selecting the best 10 models.

Public frontpage (and out of Technic-subforum) voting is a must.

[rumpletump]

I loved the contest. On the whole it was very well organised and heaps of fun.

Probably the only thing I would change were the time frames. I think it should have been a bit less flexible. Some people worked really hard to got their designs ready in good time and others got time extensions and everyone else had to wait and hope it wouldn't be the entry to knock them out of the contest..

There are some good ideas for other contests. I like the c model concept, but it might be hard to choose a set that enough people have. Don't want to exclude people if we can. Maybe we can choose from a list of a few sets to make the c model from..

Also I like the idea of size constraints, anything to level out the playing field. Not everybody has truckloads of parts and heaps of spare time. I think this would result in some really good innovative entries.

Anyways.. Bring on more comps I say

[KEvron]

i loved legobodgers' entry!

the marriage of steampunk and technic couldn't be any more natural. always nice to see someone thinking outside the blox, and if it was cross-over appeal that aided the tally, then more power to you for playing the game well.

KEvron

[Thelonious monk]

1) I definitely agree the time limit should have been much more strict. It basically gives some people an advantage and some others not, which is not fair.

Also, I think pre-voting should be a 50%-50% mix of judges and forum (though I do realize there would be a lot of voting involved I don't think people would really mind voting twice, once for the pre-selection and once for the final winners).

2) Can you perhaps use the 'poll' function to let people vote, it would be much easier for the mods to count votes?

for the rest, I definitely loved the contest and the theme and what people came up with.

Keep the challenges coming!

[captainmib]

Furthermore:

The "knights of the round table" should have their way in selecting the best 10 models.

Public frontpage (and out of Technic-subforum) voting is a must.

Can you explain why? maybe there are more then 10 best. Or i want to vote for something original but low quality...

2) Can you perhaps use the 'poll' function to let people vote, it would be much easier for the mods to count votes?

If a poll would be used it would be impossible to check who voted - you needed to be registered for some time to be able to vote...

[Tomik]

At first I'd like to say I enjoyed contest and I'm glad about price I've won. I agree with many others that time limit should be more strict. I don't think I'd change anything with my creation if I had more time but it is better to have clear rules in this way.

I also like idea of building alternative "C" models out of official sets because it is my way of building MOCs. In this case I wouldn't choose flagship or biggest set but some medium size set about 700 pieces - it needs more creativity to build something out of it and it would be relatively cheap to participate in contest (if you didn't own exact set, it wouldn't cost you much to buy it).