Heroica RPG - Expert Job Class Discussion

[LEGOman273]

~Expert Job Class Discussion~

Edited January 10, 2015 by Sandy
Fresh start for the topic.

[Waterbrick Down]

Welcome to the Expert Job Class Discussion Topic! Feel free to chat about the expert classes, both those approved and those in development. Listed below are a few tips when designing a new class as well as an index of all the classes that have been created and discussed.

Some things to keep in mind when creating a class:

1. What combat role in the game will the class function as?|
- High Damage (via favoring, elemental modifiers, self buffing, extra critical hits)
- High Defense/Survival (via self buffing, hiding, Shield skill)
- AoE Attack/Crowd Control/Summoning/Pet (ability to consistently hit multiple targets)
- Support (Healing/Buffing)
- Enemy Debuffer (Consistent Negative Statuses)
- Something New
2. Ether Based?
3. Job Traits, good mix of Roleplaying abilities and Combat Abilities?
4. How is it stylistically unique?
5. With new mechanics, aim for simplicity, define a class by a key idea or two and focus on the spirit of those ideas
6. How does a character gain access to the class?
7. Equipment and weapon availability? Too strict or too open-ended?
8. See how it compares to approved classes of the same rank/combat role
9. What makes the class appealing to other players?
10. How can the class be beat. Most classes have some weakness that a QM can use to help keep things balanced. Would you want to QM a battle with a player using your class?

Index

Note the development concerning the original 6 expert classes and the 6 master classes is excluded as development of these classes was done primarily by Sandy behind the scenes.

Brickdoctor
Skirmisher: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Version 4, Final Version
Killer Chef: Version 1

CallMePie
Black Paladin: Version 1
Gambler: Version 1, Version 2
Spellsword (Spellblade): Version 1, Version 2, Version 3
Trapper: Version 1
Mystic: Version 1, Version 2
Engineer: Version 1
Captain: Version 1
Inquisitor: Version 1
Marauder: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Final Version
Priest: Version 1
Vampire: Version 1
Siege Engineer: Version 1
Templar: Version 1
Pirate: Version 1
Brigand: Version 1
Ninja: Version 1
Virtuoso: Version 1, Version 2
Demonologist: Version 1 ,Version 2
Time Breaker: Version 1

Cutcobra
Demonologist: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3
Gladiator: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3
Faunamancer: Version 1
Aristocrat: Version 1
Magician: Version 1

Endgame
Imposer: Version 1
Juggernaut: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Version 4, Version 5
Spirit Medium: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Version 4, Version 5
Leader: Version 1

Flipz:
Mystic Warden: Version 1, Version 2

Fred Daniel Yam
Chaos Knigth: Version 1

Goliath
Warlord: Version 1

Jebediahs
Zealot: Version 1
Harlot: Version 1, Final Version
Archivist: Version 1
Tinkerer: Version 1
Botanist: Version 1
Heretic: Version 1
Calculator: Version 1
Warlock: Version 1
Pyromancer: Version 1
Geomancer: Version 1
Templar: Version 1
Puppeteer: Version 1
Bainshee: Version 1
Skald: Version 1
Rager: Version 1
Hydromancer: Version 1
Areomancer: Version 1
Shockmaster: Version 1
Shield Mage: Version 1
Cryomancer: Version 1
Illuminator: Version 1
Time Thief: Version 1
Mage Hunter: Version 1
Psion: Version 1
Dancer: Version 1
Oneiromancer: Version 1

JimBee
Werewolf: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3
Winged Warrior: Version 1, Version 2, Final Version
Demonologist: Version 1, Version 2

Kadabra
Diviner: Version 1, Version 2
Scholar: Version 1

Kintober
Celestial Soldier: Version 1

LEGOman273
Bounty Hunter (Anubin Hunter): Version 1, Version 2, Version 3 , Version 4, Version 5, Version 6

Lind Whisperer
Miko: Version 1
Pyrokinetic: Version 1

Masked Builder
Monster Tamer: Version 1, Version 2

Myrddyn
Thug: Version 1, Version 2
Psychic: Version 1

Poison Ivy/Jebediahs
Juggernaut: Version 1, Version 2

Rider Raider
Traveling Merchant: Version 1

samuraiturtle
Time Mage: Version 1, Version 2

Sandy
Artisan: Version 1, Final Version Page 1 2
Scholar: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Final Version
Weather Mage: Version 1, Version 2, Final Version page 1 2
Ninja: Version 1

Scubacarrot
Infiltrator: Final Version
Bard: Version 1
Sniper: Version 1

The Chosen Minifigure
Elemental: Version 1
Detective: Version 1, Version 2
Protector: Version 1
Artist: Version 1
Beast Mage: Version 1
Enchanter: Version 1

UsernameMDM
Gem Master: Version 1
Mining Engineer: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3

WBD
Swashbuckler: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Version 4
Illusionist: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3
Artificer: Version 1
Slayer: Version 1
Cavalier: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3
Vanguard: Version 1
Decamon Drafter: Version 1, Version 2, Final Version Page 1 2
Vindicator (Avenger): Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Final Version Page 1 2
Warlock: Version 1

Xarrzan/Flipz/CallMePie:
Engineer: Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Version 4, Version 5

Zakura
Haemomancer: Version 1

Zepher
Chaos Defender (Chaos Regulator): Version 1, Version 2, Version 3, Version 4, Version 5, Final Version

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that the initial reaction to the expert classes have calmed down I'd like to submit for critique 3 expert classes that I've been working upon. I should have all 3 up by the end of the week, but I'll give you the first of them now. For those of you who like to hold on to their gold and would like to play a more dashing and debonair class I present the:

These fancy fencers are in it for the fame and fortune and while they may come across as well to do or even snobbish they are masters of the blade.

• Additional Health: +14
• Weapons: Swashbucklers wield short and long bladed weapons and thus utilize Long swords, Great swords, Scimitars, Katanas, and Daggers
• Job trait: Diplomacy (See knights), Coup de grace – If the Swashbuckler defeats an enemy they are hastened in the next round of battle, Duelist – For every enemy the Swashbuckler defeats in a battle they gain Gold equal to enemy’s level
• Battle style: Proud – Swashbucklers find their worth in how much standing they have in society, generally measured in how many enemies they have defeated or in how large their purse is.
  1. SHIELD:
  Fight to the death
  – The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power times 4 added to their level; additionally the targeted enemy may only damage the Swashbuckler for the remainder of the battle.
  2. ELITE CRITICAL HIT: The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to the weapon power times two times their amount of gold divided by 100 rounded up added to their level.
  
  3. ELITE HIT: The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power times their amount of gold divided by 100 rounded up added to their level.
   
  4. COUNTER: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent’s attack but attacks right back at the enemy with strength equal to their level.
   
  5. DAMAGE: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent's attack.
   
  6. SPECIAL DAMAGE: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent’s special attack.

*Notes: I am still up in the air as to whether have the battle style be dependent upon how much Gold the Swashbuckler has or instead make all their hits ignore SP. The Swashbuckler fits more into a roguish catagory in that they don't necessarily aid the party but they find their strength in finishing off opponents. A Swashbuckler's effectiveness really lies in how much gold they have and the player must judge whether a loss in power is worth an upgrade in weapon or an item. I think the implementation of a class like this would lead to more enemies being able to steal gold from the Party. The class could be gained from good reputation with pirates, bandits, or a group like the Ve'er Town Watch as this class was slightly modeled after one of the main protagonists from Rumble Strike's quests.

[Zepher]

I would 100% play as that class. It looks awesome AND very in character for Boomingham.

[LEGOman273]

@Sandy:

What do you think of Bounty Hunter (C&C-wise)?

[Zepher]

The could use a bit more oomph, though. Hastened for the rest of the battle after defeating an enemy seems really cool and worthwhile. It wouldn't happen for the first few rounds, when being hastened is really coveted, so it wouldn't be OP'd and would still leave them to buy smelling salts, but would come in to "clean up house" closer to the end of the battle. Duelist also seems a little weak. If you think about how much gold Rogues mop up... that really don't seem like that much in comparision, and their attacks are dependent on reaping gold.

Also, someone with Hybros would destroy with this class, so I'd change the following:

Right now, you have (WPx(g/100)+lvl). With Hybros' like WP 15 weapon and 1000 gold, that would be a ridiculously high number. So, I advise this change:

Critical Hit: ((WP+(Gold/100))x2+lvl)

Hit: ((WP+(Gold/100))+lvl)

[CMP]

I like it. It's based on 1-1 fights, and gets more intense as time passes (with the hastened effect and gaining more power from defeated enemies.) If I could make a recommendation, I think you should use Special Dodge. (50/50 chance to hit another party member on a special damage.) It'll really round off the selfish jackass style of the class.

Edited June 4, 2012 by CallMePie

[Waterbrick Down]

The could use a bit more oomph, though. Hastened for the rest of the battle after defeating an enemy seems really cool and worthwhile. It wouldn't happen for the first few rounds, when being hastened is really coveted, so it wouldn't be OP'd and would still leave them to buy smelling salts, but would come in to "clean up house" closer to the end of the battle. Duelist also seems a little weak. If you think about how much gold Rogues mop up... that really don't seem like that much in comparision, and their attacks are dependent on reaping gold.

Also, someone with Hybros would destroy with this class, so I'd change the following:

Right now, you have (WPx(g/100)+lvl). With Hybros' like WP 15 weapon and 1000 gold, that would be a ridiculously high number. So, I advise this change:

Critical Hit: ((WP+(Gold/100))x2+lvl)

Hit: ((WP+(Gold/100))+lvl)

Good idea on the revamp of the Gold modifier, I originally had the Counter allow the Swashbuckler to steal gold in addition to striking back but I thought that was OP. Also the Coup de grace originally started as "Perfectionist - For every 15 enemies the Swashbuckler defeats their WP increases by 1 permenantly" this was similar to the Mystic Knight's enchantment in that the bonus couldn't be transferred from weapon to weapon, but I thought the trait conflicted with the decision players have to make between upgrading their weapon or keeping their melee bonus.

EDIT: Forgot the number 15.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Waterbrick Down

[Rumble Strike]

As I said to WBD privately, this is exactly the thing I had in mind when creating Hlin. I love the class and am glad that others do too. Top work WBD!

[JimBee]

I like it, too. The method of using gold for power is really neat and fitting for this class. And I agree with Zepher that the hastened effect should be permanent, since it won't come into effect until about halfway through the battle and it's not guaranteed that the Swashbuckler will deliver the finishing hit to an enemy.

Also, I would change the weapons that a Swashbuckler can use to fit the official weapon types (scimitars and katanas are not).

With Hybros' like WP 15 weapon and 1000 gold, that would be a ridiculously high number.

Not that it's likely Hybros would advance to this class (out of character), but he only has a WP: 12 scythe and 800 some gold. But even with those stats that you said, it would only be 15*10 + 30 so 180 damage... so yeah a little OP.

[Poison Ivy]

A little something I came up with earlier:

Juggernaut

*picture coming*

Health Bonus +13

These fighters brutally obliterate enemies with no regard for personal safety.

Job traits: Risky:The Juggernaut can only target the enemy with the highest level.

Destroyer: The Juggernaut hits hard, but can only target one enemy at a time (similar to a Berserker)

Intimidation: The Juggernaut uses their armored appearance to strike fear into other's hearts.

Challenger: The Juggernaut never flees from a fight, even when a Smoke Bomb is thrown.

SHIELD: Rolling Hero: The Juggernaut attacks the three enemies with the most remaining HP with strength equal to five times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP:10 x 5 + level 30 = 80 damage to three enemies)

EXTREMELY CRITICAL HIT: The Juggernaut hits the enemy with strength equal to three times their weapon power added to their level times two. (e.g WP:10 x 3 + level 30 x 2 = 90 damage to the target.

POWERFUL HIT: The Juggernaut hits the target with strength equal to two times their weapon power added to their level. (e.g. WP:10 x 2 + level 30 = 50 damage)

HELPER: The Juggernaut aids an ally below it in the battle order, hitting the ally's target with their weapon power only (e.g. WP:10 = 10 damage done)

DAMAGING COUNTER: The Juggernaut is damaged by it's opponent, but strikes back with its bare hands, dealing damage back to the enemy equal to the Juggernaut's level only.

SPECIAL COUNTER: The Juggernaut is struck by it's opponent's Special, but has a 50/50 chance of deflecting the special back to the target (determined by a dice roll)

[Scubacarrot]

snip

Two things: it seems extremely overpowered, and with a job trait like the first one, why would you even need to be around with the battle, you can only attack one enemy anyway .

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Juggernaut!

That is OP! Way too much. Here's some suggestions for change:

Only +13 health??? Waaayy too little, it's a juggernaut.

.Make it permanently slowed.

.Get rid of Challenger

.Mention that it can carry shields and has a high defense. (Perhaps have it where its armor could be destroyed? Then the Hero has to pay to "fix" it.)

I'll keep thinking.

[CMP]

I like the idea, but it does seem unnecessarily powerful. Juggernauts struck me as defenders, not attackers, having both at such extremes in one class is a little too much in my mind. I like how they always have to go for the strongest opponent, though. Maybe less powerful hits, or a removal of the counters?

[Poison Ivy]

Two things: it seems extremely overpowered, and with a job trait like the first one, why would you even need to be around with the battle, you can only attack one enemy anyway .

How do you mean?

Juggernaut!

That is OP! Way too much. Here's some suggestions for change:

Only +13 health??? Waaayy too little, it's a juggernaut.

.Make it permanently slowed.

.Get rid of Challenger

.Mention that it can carry shields and has a high defense. (Perhaps have it where its armor could be destroyed? Then the Hero has to pay to "fix" it.)

I'll keep thinking.

Thanks for the feedback! Dammit, I did forget to say that it could carry shields. The permananantly Slowed effect is a good idea too.

I like the idea, but it does seem unnecessarily powerful. Juggernauts struck me as defenders, not attackers, having both at such extremes in one class is a little too much in my mind. I like how they always have to go for the strongest opponent, though. Maybe less powerful hits, or a removal of the counters?

I was going with the more literal interpretation of the word "Juggernaut", which the dictionary says means "a huge, powerful, or overwhelming force or institution". That's what I was going for there, something that can kill enemies quickly. Capt. JohnPaul's idea for permanently Slowed makes sense though, I'm going to change it so that either that becomes a job trait or the Shield leaves the Juggernaut Stunned for the next round, similar to a Black Knight's shield skill.

[Scubacarrot]

How do you mean?

Because it can only attack the enemy with the highest level, in most cases, that would leave 0% room for strategy.

[Capt.JohnPaul]

Also, what "faction" would you have to have a great reputation with to get the juggernaut? Is there a juggernaut group?? Ooooh... *scribble scribble*

[Jebediahs]

The permanently slowed is very fitting. Also, since "The Juggernaut uses their armored appearance to strike fear into other's hearts" you could factor SP into their damage.

For instance the SHIELD damage could be: (WP + LvL) x SP/2 rounded up.

(WP: 10 + Level 30) x SP: 10 / 2 = 200 dmg

The CRITICAL HIT damage could be: WP x SP / 2 + LvL rounded up.

WP: 10 x SP: 10 / 2 + Level 30 = 80 dmg

[Poison Ivy]

Because it can only attack the enemy with the highest level, in most cases, that would leave 0% room for strategy.

Not always, for example if there were two Lvl 10 enemies and a Lvl 5 enemy, the hero could choose to hit either Lvl 10 enemy until one or both are defeated, in which case they would attack the Lvl 5 enemy.

Also, what "faction" would you have to have a great reputation with to get the juggernaut? Is there a juggernaut group?? Ooooh... *scribble scribble*

I dunno, I haven't figured that out yet.

The permanently slowed is very fitting. Also, since "The Juggernaut uses their armored appearance to strike fear into other's hearts" you could factor SP into their damage.

For instance the SHIELD damage could be: (WP + LvL) x SP/2 rounded up.

(WP: 10 + Level 30) x SP: 10 / 2 = 200 dmg

The CRITICAL HIT damage could be: WP x SP / 2 + LvL rounded up.

WP: 10 x SP: 10 / 2 + Level 30 = 80 dmg

That would be great, thanks for the input!

[Waterbrick Down]

Alright, taking the suggestions into account, here is the revamped Swashbuckler.

These fancy fencers are in it for the fame and fortune and while they may come across as well to do or even snobbish they are masters of the blade.

• Additional Health: +14
  
• Weapons: Swashbucklers wield short and long bladed weapons and thus utilize Long swords, Great swords, and Daggers
  
• Job trait: Diplomacy (See knights), Coup de grace – If the Swashbuckler defeats an enemy they are hastened for the remainder of the battle. Duelist – For every enemy the Swashbuckler defeats in a battle they gain Gold equal to two times the enemy’s level
  
• Battle style: Proud – Swashbucklers find their worth in how much standing they have in society, generally measured in how many enemies they have defeated or in how large their purse is.
  
  1. SHIELD:
  Fight to the death
  – The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power times 4 added to their level; additionally the targeted enemy may only damage the Swashbuckler for the remainder of the battle.
  
  
  2. ELITE CRITICAL HIT: The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to the weapon power times two, added to their amount of gold divided by 100 rounded up, added to their level. Ex. ((WPx2)+(Gold/100)+Level)
  
  
  3. ELITE HIT: The Swashbuckler attacks the target with strength equal to their weapon power, added to their amount of gold divided by 100 rounded up, added to their level. Ex. (WP+(Gold/100)+Level)
  
  
  4. COUNTER: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent’s attack but attacks right back at the enemy with strength equal to their level.
  
  
  5. DAMAGE: The Swashbuckler is struck by the opponent's attack.
  
  
  6. SPECIAL Dodge: The Swashbuckler has a 50/50 chance to dodge the opponent's special skill so that it hits the next ally in turn instead, unless the skill hits everybody.

Notes:

• Weapons fixed.
  
• Coup de grace now hastens the Swashbuckler for the entire battle.
  
• Duelist is now buffed to deliver 2 times an enemies level in gold after a kill.
  
• Elite Critical Hit and Elite Hit now add the Gold/100 factor instead of multiplying by it.
  
• Special Damage has been switched to Special Dodge.
  

There still remains the issue as to how the Swashbuckler obtains their gold, I've also considered adding a "Steal" effect to "Counter" and calling it "Riposte", if I do that should I debuff "Duelist"? I still want to keep the class balanced but at the same time fun to play and part of the balance part is adding some sort of weakness to the class, right now that is a player's potential lack of gold to maximize their power. What are the thoughts on "Fight to the death"?

Edited June 5, 2012 by Waterbrick Down

[CMP]

I think Fight to the Death should also include 'While the enemy is focused on the Swashbuckler, its SP is reduced to 0' or something to that effect. Also, yes, Counter should include taking gold (I called it Counterthief, I think Chaos Defender has it too), but at the cost of Duelist.

[JimBee]

There still remains the issue as to how the Swashbuckler obtains their gold, I've also considered adding a "Steal" effect to "Counter" and calling it "Riposte", if I do that should I debuff "Duelist"?

I think that you should keep Duelist and Counter how they are, however if you choose to add a steal effect then I think that you should remove the Duelist trait entirely. To keep the gold income limited so as not to make the Swashbuckler too powerful.

And I've also revamped the Werewolf class, based on the suggestions given. Let me know what you think.

Werewolf

The cursed beings have the ability to transform between man and beast. The start of a battle will instigate a transformation into beast form, while the end of the battle will force it back to default form.

Additional Health: +12

Weapons: None – Werewolves cannot use any weapons in battle, and instead rely on their own strength to dispose of enemies.

Job Traits: Strongman – Werewolves are immune to the Afraid, Weakened, and Fragile effects. Natural Respite – See Barbarian. Fearless – Werewolves are encouraged for all battles, but cannot fight from the back row unless forced to.

Battle Style: Fearless – Werewolves are afraid of nothing, and will jump into battle immediately.

Default form:

1. SHIELD: Howl – The Werewolf lets out a piercing howl, petrifying the target.

2. POWERFUL CRITICAL HIT – The Werewolf attacks with twice their current power.

3. POWERFUL HIT – The Werewolf attacks with strength equal to their power.

4. AGILITY – The Werewolf limbers up so that becomes hastened for the next round.

5. DAMAGE – The Werewolf is struck with the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DODGE – The Werewolf has a 50/50 chance of avoiding the enemy's special skill and passing it on to the next ally in the battle order, unless the special targets all party members.

Notes:

- Doubled additional health to 12.

- Lifted the artifact limitation.

- Changed "Sheer Power" to "Fearless", which gives the permanent encouraged effect but prevents back row fighting (unless induced by an enemy's special skill or otherwise).

- Changed Special Damage to Special Dodge

[Zepher]

WBD, please give it out as a prize to something I am a part of, I absolutely 100% want to play that class. It is awesome and fits Boomingham perfectly.

[CMP]

WBD, please give it out as a prize to something I am a part of, I absolutely 100% want to play that class. It is awesome and fits Boomingham perfectly.

I have to agree here. But keep Barty as a disgraced angel or something.

[Scubacarrot]

Swashbuckler seems really good, it's something I would like to play as!

JimB, I think the werewolf Shield effect could be stronger, other than that, it looks good!

[Sandy]

From now on I'm only going to comment on classes that are pitched by players who have acted as Quest Masters, and thus have a realistic potential to be added into the game. Everyone else is still free to give feedback on other suggestions, of course.

Werewolf

The cursed beings have the ability to transform between man and beast. The start of a battle will instigate a transformation into beast form, while the end of the battle will force it back to default form.

Additional Health: +12

Weapons: None – Werewolves cannot use any weapons in battle, and instead rely on their own strength to dispose of enemies.

Job Traits: Strongman – Werewolves are immune to the Afraid, Weakened, and Fragile effects. Natural Respite – See Barbarian. Fearless – Werewolves are encouraged for all battles, but cannot fight from the back row unless forced to.

Battle Style: Fearless – Werewolves are afraid of nothing, and will jump into battle immediately.

Default form:

1. SHIELD: Howl – The Werewolf lets out a piercing howl, petrifying the target.

2. POWERFUL CRITICAL HIT – The Werewolf attacks with twice their current power.

3. POWERFUL HIT – The Werewolf attacks with strength equal to their power.

4. AGILITY – The Werewolf limbers up so that becomes hastened for the next round.

5. DAMAGE – The Werewolf is struck with the opponent’s attack.

6. SPECIAL DODGE – The Werewolf has a 50/50 chance of avoiding the enemy's special skill and passing it on to the next ally in the battle order, unless the special targets all party members.

Notes:

- Doubled additional health to 12.

- Lifted the artifact limitation.

- Changed "Sheer Power" to "Fearless", which gives the permanent encouraged effect but prevents back row fighting (unless induced by an enemy's special skill or otherwise).

- Changed Special Damage to Special Dodge

Hmm... This class is very close to my Chi Monk, but it also has some distinct differences.

With the permanent encouraged-effect in place, at Level 30 their normal hits will cause 60 damage and their critical hits 120 damage. That's about equal to an un-encouraged, non-elemental attack of a Chi Monk, but with a Mead and a correct element, The Chi Monk can cause up to 240 damage to one enemy with a normal hit. So your class is actually lacking in power.

The Shield skill is actually one-hit KO for the targetted enemy, but I'm sure many QMs will counter it by making their enemies immune to petrify, so you might want to think of something else.

Hastened-effect usually lasts for the rest of the battle, so "Agility" is a bit problematic on that front. Maybe consider wording it differently?

Oh, and if the Werewolf is immune to the "Afraid"-effect, how else could they be forced to fight from the back row?

JimB, I think the werewolf Shield effect could be stronger, other than that, it looks good!

Petrifying is equal to killing the enemy in one hit, since very few enemies can remove bad effects. I don't see how the skill could get anymore powerful than that.