I've started designing my next train and I would be nice to get some feedback on it. Done a "quick and dirty" design in LDD, just to get the basic look, shape and what not but there's surely room for improvement. Based it on the pictures I found on the net, done the boiler in 7 wide and the cabin in 8. I basicly went for this one as I allready have 3 large black steamers and wanted something in a different color, which, I hope, hass'nt been done yet (google isn'nt giving me any hits on a lego version of it, MOC or otherwise anyway).

Here's a snapshot from LDD, thoughts?

4-8-4 red devil concept Left view by Barduck12, on Flickr

Its interesting. I think the tender is 1 or 2 plates too tall.

Oh wait, nevermind.

Edited July 2, 201311 yr by Spitfire2865

I like were this is going. The Red Devil is an interesting choice for a model to, seeing it is one of the few "Advanced Steam" locomotives to be made. Good luck as you finish the model.

Looks like a great design

Looks nice so far.

finally done with the MLCad of this and I've started building. I'll try and post a picture of progress so far, while waiting on bricks to arrive

Red Devil WIP by Barduck12, on Flickr

Nice looking layout of the motors, where will the receiver go?

reciever will go inside the tender with the battery. Next bricks should arrive tomorrow so I'll be able to build a bit more, yet not finish her because I have still a lot of bricks missing that are on their way

while waiting on the rest of the bricks (still got 5 deliveries) I've made a test run to see if everything would check out, like abiliy to take switches and curves. here's a link to the vid of that test run: http://www.flickr.co...N07/9421639689/

Edited August 26, 201311 yr by Barduck

been working the better part of a night on her and this is where I stand now:

WIP Red Devil by Barduck12, on Flickr

Still needs a lot of work (and some bricks that are still on the way) but she's coming along nicely. Once I've finished the first build I can look in to which parts I can improve on. Any suggestion on that part are more than welcome btw

Edited August 26, 201311 yr by Barduck

The trailing truck looks a little boxy. And the pony truck looks a little flimsy. (Which might fix itself when the cylinders are installed.)

Other than that, it looks really nice.

I think the boxy-ness (is that even a word ) of the trailing truck should solve itself once the coverparts are on it. Can't put them there right now, still missing the bars for it. As for the cylindres, I was just going thru my bricks and it seems I've forgot to order the parts for those, lol. So I'll have to make another order.

  On 8/1/2013 at 8:25 AM, kieran said:

Nice looking layout of the motors, where will the receiver go?

This should now answer your question by itself:

As for overall progress:

WIP 4-8-4 Red Devil by Barduck12, on Flickr

I'd say she's about 80% finished

awesome! It almost looks like a model train, especially the tender!

added the hoses, the coverpart on the trailing truck and trying out another design for the cylinders.

WIP Red Devil 4-8-4 by Barduck12, on Flickr

That still (the cylinders) will need to be replaced in red but you get the idea where I'm going.

I've hit a (brick)wall. When I let her run she slows down in the curves so much that she locks up. I've tried several solutions so far, but the problem remains.

What have I tried so far:

- other cylinders (the technic build ones as seen on last pictures)

- other rods on the wheels, changed the ones with the older flexstuff in to ones build with technic lift arms, like on the EN

- bigger motors, changed the medium PF motors to large ones

Nothing helped. I had hoped that the large motors would have had the power to get her thru but they didn'nt.

Yesterday I tested her again and set the yellow cargo train from LEGO behind her to push. Sure enough she now went thru the curves with no problems and at a nice speed. It was nice to see her run but it also almost made me throw her on the floor and give up on her. This night, in last resort, I cut her lose from the tender to test her without it. To my horror she now had no more problem going thru curves and had an amazing speed.

Seeing this I've now realized that the problem is within the tender, either it's weight (she is kinda heavy compared to other tenders I have) or the trucks are holding the train back. Allthough quite heavy I don't think that is the problem, it's got be something with the tender's trucks or the wheels that cause to much friction and hold the train back. Unfortunately I can not change anything to them because they wouldn't look as good then.

So, my solution will be to make a luggage car with a PF train motor under it, with it's own battery and remote receiver. I was intending to build 2-3 cars anyway, cars that judging from pictures look alot like the one from the EN btw, so I might aswel start designing those. I think I'll make them in 7 wide so they don't break the overall look of the train.

Edited August 17, 201311 yr by Barduck

Cool engine, can't wait for the carriages.

It is always annoying when you completely rebuild an engine to discover the problem is in one of the carriages.

been looking around abit and I think cars in the style of Cooper's ( http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35380) will go best with it, even the color combinations seem to be quite close to the cars pulled by the RD in the pictures I have of her. Now to reverse engineer them. Allthough I don't think I'll be going for 44 studs long, rather 36. Longer would seem out of place

Edited August 17, 201311 yr by Barduck

  On 8/17/2013 at 7:18 AM, Barduck said:

I've hit a (brick)wall. When I let her run she slows down in the curves so much that she locks up. I've tried several solutions so far, but the problem remains.

What have I tried so far:

- other cylinders (the technic build ones as seen on last pictures)

- other rods on the wheels, changed the ones with the older flexstuff in to ones build with technic lift arms, like on the EN

- bigger motors, changed the medium PF motors to large ones

Nothing helped. I had hoped that the large motors would have had the power to get her thru but they didn'nt.

Yesterday I tested her again and set the yellow cargo train from LEGO behind her to push. Sure enough she now went thru the curves with no problems and at a nice speed. It was nice to see her run but it also almost made me throw her on the floor and give up on her. This night, in last resort, I cut her lose from the tender to test her without it. To my horror she now had no more problem going thru curves and had an amazing speed.

Seeing this I've now realized that the problem is within the tender, either it's weight (she is kinda heavy compared to other tenders I have) or the trucks are holding the train back. Allthough quite heavy I don't think that is the problem, it's got be something with the tender's trucks or the wheels that cause to much friction and hold the train back. Unfortunately I can not change anything to them because they wouldn't look as good then.

So, my solution will be to make a luggage car with a PF train motor under it, with it's own battery and remote receiver. I was intending to build 2-3 cars anyway, cars that judging from pictures look alot like the one from the EN btw, so I might aswel start designing those. I think I'll make them in 7 wide so they don't break the overall look of the train.

I didn't think of that before, but now that you mention it, oh yeah, I can totally see your tender design being a problem in the curves. You should do some more isolation work to figure out exactly where the problem is (I'll give you some suggestions on that in a second). First, though, looking closer at your tender design, I see at least three problems,

1) the trucks are very long, something like 12 or 13 studs, so each truck will have a hard time going through the tight lego curves for that reason alone.

2) the trucks are also three axle, which will also tend to bind up in lego curves even if you make them as short as possible.

3) the wheels all still have the traction band on them, the inside and outside rails will try to turn the wheels at different speeds on a curve, without traction bands one or the other wheel can slip, but with the traction bands they are locked to both rails.

I would suggest pulling off those trucks and setting them aside for a moment, then build a nice and simple two axle truck that is about 1/2 the length (and do so without the traction bands- a tooth pick is great for pulling them off). As it is 8 or 9 studs is probably the limit that I'd recommend for a wheelbase if you want to negotiate conventional lego curves. If that works, you can then start adding details back in, testing each time to see if it works.

If you have to do a major rebuild on your tender each time, you could start out using a simple flatcar of the same dimensions, and perhaps add a roll of coins to simulate the weight of the full brickbuilt tender.

(Or if you REALLY like the look of those trucks, perhaps building two versions of the tender, the "pretty but only for display" tender and the "well, I've made a few sacrifices but it runs well" tender.)

Now to get the look of the three axle trucks, you could then explore either articulated trucks, a floating axle truck, or a dummy wheel.

As for the locomotive running gear, that is an easy thing to test. You could pull off the connecting rod to the cylinder (without redesigning anything), if that helps then you know your cylinder is a potential problem, if it doesn't help, you know your cylinder design should be okay. If the problem only occurs in the curves, it is more likely to be related to something that actually touches the tracks (the wheels).

Oh, another handy trick for debugging problems like this is simply to watch and see where the train starts to slow down. If the problem is the tender, the locomotive should be completely in the curve without any sign of slowing. You could even uncouple the locomotive while keeping the power attached, if it happily goes forward/back with the few inches of slack in the wire, well, you know you've isolated the gremlin.

Good building!

  On 8/17/2013 at 7:18 AM, Barduck said:

Seeing this I've now realized that the problem is within the tender, either it's weight (she is kinda heavy compared to other tenders I have) or the trucks are holding the train back. Allthough quite heavy I don't think that is the problem, it's got be something with the tender's trucks or the wheels that cause to much friction and hold the train back. Unfortunately I can not change anything to them because they wouldn't look as good then.

So, my solution will be to make a luggage car with a PF train motor under it, with it's own battery and remote receiver. I was intending to build 2-3 cars anyway, cars that judging from pictures look alot like the one from the EN btw, so I might aswel start designing those. I think I'll make them in 7 wide so they don't break the overall look of the train.

I agree with zephyr1934 on this. The three axle tender trucks will be a problem. Due to the length of the trucks, the middle axle will rub on the inside of the curve. I'd at least try and remove some of the traction bands from the wheels. Try removing them from both centre axles. Another solution would be to build slightly skinnier trucks for the tender to allow the middle axle to slide back and forth more. Saving weight in the tender will also help; are there any bricks you can replace with panels?

thx both for your comments. The tender trucks however have a floating middle axle, it can move. I knew it would have been a problem otherwise. I will however try it without the rubber bands and see what happens. As for changing the design of the tender trucks in to 2-wheeled ones, I'm not going to do that, it wouldn't look authentic. Sure I could do it like you said, 3 axle for display, 2 axle to run but that would go against what I've tried to achieve with this train.

Just as a test remove the centre axles from the tender. It will at least tell you if that's the problem. If so you'll need to allow more movement.

Those trucks also look quite long, so they may be a problem simply because of the length, if so going to an articulated design should help

finished for me, allthough I'm thinking if I shouldn't lengthen the cab by 1 stud on the back

comparison picture with my Allegheny:

picture of the tender trucks from below, showing that the middle axle can moved about:

And last but not least, the money shot:

MOC 4-8-4 Red Devil by Barduck12, on Flickr

Edited August 19, 201311 yr by Barduck

Looking good, so does she take the curves better now? If so, did you figure out the source of your previous problems?