Paladin

It's funny 15 years ago I could have told you exactly how many I have...LOL since they were so rare and sought after in my collection. Now I'd simply have to estimate...somewhere in the neighborhood of 150+ Most of mine are the old non-shooting dark-grey kind with the crossed-cannons motif emblazoned on the top. probably 80% are in red carriages, 15% in old brown, and the remaining 5% are in green (from the Armada flagship...I had 10 of those I picked up on closeout at a Toys-R-Us when Lego discontinued the classic pirates line). I do have some of the old full-action shooting style, but those all came from BrickLink acquisition...here in the states the full-shooting type were banned...originally. Actually as an oddity, and some of you older guys may have seen these, I have at least one or two of the "disabled" shooting style. They have a black breech-tail which moves like the full shooting type, but there is no spring, instead a round tube of plastic allows the breech-tail to move only a little bit. Placing a 1x1 round brick in the muzzle and flicking the breech with the finger fires the cannon a very short, weak distance. These were first available in the States, but then quickly replaced by the non-shooters for the duration of classic pirates. Currently I have about 20 of the new metallic-black cannon, which I think are very nice looking. Hope to make a good collection of these and the new soldier's figs...for as long the "Cannon Battle" set is available

This build is most impressive. The building techniques are really cool if not laborious and very detailed -- which will make for a much more satisfying finished project! I love the "built" cannon, and the hull "planking" techinque! Going full minifig scale is always a challenge and you look off to a great start. Will be a treat to see this model fully completed, best of luck on the build! ...(isn't that really the fun part anyway)

Very nice rendition Bonaparte! Nice snot work on the wheel casings. Great rigging. You inspire me to build better sir! I actually have a very long standing "pimped" IMTP ship as it were. It's called the Tripoli and uses the correct boat hulls, I never had the IMTP set so I built mine using the two copies of set 6057 (Castle :: Black Knights :: Sea Serpent). Givng it a blue / black / white color scheme. It's very old (16+ years now) but I know I have it around somewhere. If I can find it I shall repair it and take pictures. I might spruce it up but I think I will enter it as it is. Should it win a contest I would be rather amazed, but it fits the description of this topic. At one time it had side wheels, as did a contemporary version of my ship Potempkin some of you may have seen. However Bonaparte's version of this type of ship with side wheels is far more elegant. Mine simply had large 40-tooth technic gears attached to either side 8-| ....ahem I was 11... :-P Actually I read your description of your ship in the entry thread Bonaparte, and the irony doesn't end with the side wheels. Tripoli was actually built as an Imperial Barge for my avatar at the time (in answer to a similar ship my friend built, but out of his IMTP ship since he actually had the set. He was kind enough to lend me the instructions so I could base mine upon said ship). Anyway I think I found a reason for a quick build session this weekend!

I quite intend to do so next year! This year I had committed to the NMRA Train show in Detroit so I couldn't swing time off to display at both shows. Next year though, definitely doing it. Constitution and Bellerophon will most certainly be there. Depending on how the train/town section comes together they may be displayed on my "Independance Harbor" section I'm also hoping to do some pretty awesome castle-themed stuff too. Last year one of the guys from IndyLUG coordinated the Brickworld castle area...so I'm hoping to work with him and some of the other castle guys to do something in that area too.

This looks to be a very impressive project. You appear to be off to a great start. You're correct in some of your previous posts about some parts of the Constitution being radically different from the way she sits today, especially the stern galleries and the beakhead. I think they changed throughout the years because... #1, when she was on active duty and went into battle these parts of the ship would receive a lot of damage and wouldn't always be rebuilt correctly. #2, Later in life she was covered with a shed like structure which altered a lot of her upper works and until the 1992 reconstruction she was in various altered configurations. I believe that they are currently working on a major overhaul of the ship, which may include rebuilding parts of the upper works to their 1812 configuration...or at least that's what THIS seems to say. There are two very good books I used when I built my model you may be interested in: OLD IRONSIDES, The Rise, Decline, and Resurrection of USS Constitution by Thomas Gillmer. This book is somewhat a history book and somewhat a synopsis of the 1992 reconstruction. It has a lot of really great information, especially about how the ship changed over the years. You can order it directly from the USS Constitution Museum: HERE The Frigate Constitution and Other Historic Ships by F. Alexander Magoun This is also a really great reference on the ship with layouts and sail plans, although the book you already have may contain most of this already. It's a really good book though nonetheless. Looks like Amazon has sellers that offer the book but doesn't sell it directly. I found an old copy at a library and had Borders order me one using the ISBN. Amazon lists two ISBN numbers, so if you're interested you might try to order it through a local bookseller: ISBN-10: 0486255247 ISBN-13: 978-0486255248 Here are a couple of official navy sites you might find interesting: http://www.history.navy.mil/constitution/ http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/ Good luck with the build!

There aren't any left yet this summer that I know of. However there was one last June and it will be held again next year. It's called BrickWorld and is in a suburb of Chicago. This doesn't appear to be to far from Minnesota to be out of the question. It would be a great place to show off that MOC among other AFOLs and the public. They appeared to have a great public attendance on the public show days. I only visited last year, but probably 90% of IndyLUG (the LUG I belong to) displayed there as well as many other members of LUG's and LTC's and independants. In fact the guy who organized Brickworld recently moved to just north of Indianapolis and has joined our LUG. As well there were vendors on hand, like BrickForge and BrickArms selling custom equipments. The guys that have done Brickfest and participated in this event say it was very similar to that event. Also when I participated in this year's National Train Show with the other ILTCO member clubs, some of the guys who normally do that show were talking about participating in Brickworld because next years NTS is in California. Anywya I know I am going next year as an exhibitor, as well as taking Bellerophon and Constitution (and my space, train, and castle stuff too) I'm sure I can find out any current details on next year's show, if anyone is interested in the dates. Last year there was a participation fee of something like $60, so that's a consideration, but the venue they've reserved is worth it IMO. It's a beautiful hotel and convention hall. Here's a decent gallery of the general fare featured last year: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=263027 or just search "Brickworld" on BrickShelf.

I chose the Soldiers, because they remind me of American Revolutionary Army Soldiers. They were the figs I used for my American army in battles against a friend of mine who used the Imperial Guards as British Red Coats. However they're both good, and LEGO should make more of 'em, IMO. Really they both work well for those of you with British MOCs. The blues can be naval officers (especially the rare Blue Admiral fig) and the reds can be Marines.

LOL...those pictures make quite an impressive statement! Especially the rigging shot. My HMS Bellerophon is hard to judge too. I may have to take some shots of it with something like that...I have an Imperial Flagship set around somewhere...

8-o I'm not sure what to say here other than WOW...maybe. This is a *wonderful* ship design, absolutely stunning. I love the extreme detailing going on. I *really* like the use of lattice panes hung from the shutter hinges to create angled windows that is one technique I will definately remember. There are so many other things I've seen on this MOC that are well done it would take to long to list them all. Congratulations on such a wonderful creation!

Ah...it's very interesting to see a MOC like this. Very good idea, and something a sea-side fort should not be without.

M&C was focused on a number of things including the characters, ships, factual naval combat, and life aboard a British frigate in the Napoleonic era. Which, are what Patrick O'Brian's novels are about. However POTC is an action movie. Action movies revolve around the characters solving a problem of some kind. Therefore, by it's nature the movie will focus mainly on the characters themselves. I don't hate POTC, I aired most of my grievances in my previous post...it's just another processed action movie to me. Some are a bit better than others to me but they're all essentially the same. Let me put it this way, if I have a large group of friends over for an evening of entertainment, including beer, pizza, and some light, mindless entertainment that everybody is sure to at least be entertained by I would put in POTC. It's pretty good for that. But I could sub in almost any action movie... When I sit down to watch M&C it's generally by myself or with someone who will enjoy it with me (I have a few friends that thoroughly enjoyed the film). I pour myself a Pusser's (http://www.pussers.com) or perhaps turn it into Grog. Dim down the lights, crank the Home Theatre and lose myself in the late 18th century aboard the HMS Surprise for about 2 hours and some change. *sweet*

Ever since the first POTC movie when solid shot was causing random, inexplicable explosions when the Black Pearl was bombarding the port...I have not been a huge fan. I find this movie barely entertaining, if only because I can stomach the naval theme. Johnnie Depp is one of my favorite actors (I'm a fan of Tim Burton films as well) so his character acting at least is entertianing to me. However I'd sooner put in "Sleepy Hollow", "The Ninth Gate" (EXCELLENT movie BTW), or "Edward Scissorhands" first... However the heavy-handed Disney formula is all over this piece (obviously since they made it). The two dolt British red-coat marines were annoying, just like the stupid comic relief pair in every recent Disney movie is. I thought the part on the cannibal island in the second movie where Depp's character is falling was like a live action cartoon and such was rather stupid. I found POTC to be more along the lines of Richard Donner's "The Goonies" than anything else. I think I like "The Goonies" better too...must be because they "R Good Enough"...lol. Speilburg's Peter Pan movie "Hook" is more entertaining for my money. Heck, give me Disney's own original "Swiss Family Robinson" film, I liked THAT better! For my taste "Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World" is THE historical naval action film of the decade not the POTC trilogy. It's a shame that a sequel was not made for that film (nor is it likely that there will be one). It was left open ended enough to allow for it. I can't believe that people thought that film was boring and didn't have enough action. I guess story and character development, as well as real acting, realistic battle sequences, are above the unwashed masses these days that crave 'splosions and CG. It's evident that movies like POTC are geared towards the lowest common denominator and young children to drive box office sales and entertain almost everyone. Just like most Hollywood trash is these days. At least it's not trying to make an overt political statement about global warming or saving Darfur or some other "in-vogue" Hollywood activism thing like every movie seems to be required to address these days, which is a relief. As for the most recent movie, I haven't seen it but I haven't heard much about it either. That's generally not a good sign. No "box office record" news. No rave reviews. The few people I know that have seen it thought it was just "OK". Which doesn't bode well for me, because even the best parts of the first film were just "OK" to me. Here are some other historical naval movies you might consider... "Mutiny on the Bounty" (1935) Featuring Charles Laughton A real classic, really well done for it's age...although the keel-hauling scene will make you laugh... "Captain Horatio Hornblower" (1951) Featuring Gregory Peck Hard to find but worth it, fairly realistic naval action... "John Paul Jones" (1959) Featuring Robert Stack Also hard to find, but also worth it. One of my favorites. "H.M.S. Defiant" (aka "Damn the Defiant" - 1962) Featuring Alec Guiness Really quite good, about the fleet-wide mutiny "The Bounty" (1984) Featuring Anthony Hopkins More recent, required viewing IMO, nice early piece for later stars Mel Gibson, Daniel Day-Lewis, and Liam Neeson. Or A&E's Horatio Hornblower Mini-series featuring Ioan Gruffudd... Though fairly low budget, it's really quite good and I enjoy watching it regularly (about once a year) ...which would all be time better spent IMHO.

Those appear to be the same ship to me... Although it's a pirate ship, It reminds me of the very much of early English ships of the line, like the "Sovereign of the Seas"

I really like this! A very nice variant on the BSB design and theme. The details are very nice. I like the reversed 1x1 plates used on the forecastle, and of course the internals of the stern cabin. I really like the sails and the custom decals, they look wonderful. It looks like a late 16th or early 17th century English war galleon (a little bit sleeker than what I would call Spanish...a "race built" if you wish although the stern is a bit tall for that moniker). At first I wondered if you choose the name "Revenge" from Sir Francis Drake's famous ship, however from the authentic pirate flag and actually reading your post I see that this is clearly a bow to Blackbeard's Queen Anne's Revenge *sweet* Very cool!

This small space wheel was considered a 20lb mortar, and in our naval war game could even be mounted on a regular ship: This large space wheel was considered a 40lb mortar, and was supposed to only be mounted on a bomb vessel or an Ironclad (this rule was often ignored...remember we were 10-14 in ages): Basically we got the idea to use mortars after watching "Last of the Mohicans" (Michael Mann version) which had just come out back then (man...the late 80's and early 90's was a great time for movies!). The scene of the French assault on the British fort William Henry when they fire off the mortars was particularly exciting (and still is), so of course we decided "Let's use mortars!". Again we needed a Lego part that not everyone had a lot of, and the space wheels seemed to work. Mostly because they were relatively new parts in the early 90's...having come out on M-Tron and Blacktron II sets. We also decided that they should be black or grey in color. Another use for the small wheel was as floating mines. For those we used the white variety that came in the Ice Planet 2000 sets, they actually could blend with carpet if you weren't careful :-D I have a picture of a very early version of my Potempkin moc bristling with these types of "mortars"...rather unrealistic and insane...but it was "for the game"...lol. I'll see if I can find it and scan it sometime.

Yup... Though the closest I come to the shoreline is Lake Michigan :-D...I'm a Hoosier (from the state of Indiana). Unfortunately it's about 14 hours to Boston from Indianapolis (by car) so I can't just see Constitution whenever I want...but I guess that's alot closer than some of you guys in Europe! ;-) No I hadn't seen that! Wow there are a lot of really great ideas for built-up cannons! I should explain that the barrel thing was sort of an "equalizing" factor. Back in the day I had some friends that would get together and have "Lego Naval Wars" and to keep things on a more equal footing we required that you use specific pieces for guns. A Lego cannon was a 24lb long gun, a brown barrel was a 32lb carronade, and a brown palm tree segment was a 12lb cannon. Bomb vessels were built with mortars. Mortars were made with black space wheels, little ones were 20lb mortars, the medium size ones were 40lb mortars, and then the huge brown barrels that came out of the wild west sets were 60lb mortars. Rail guns of various sizes were permitted but they were anti-personnel weapons, and generally the goal was to sink your opponent's ship or dismast them and capture the ship. Although it's meaningless now, I still had some models adhering to those rules. The point was that if you ran out of those parts you couldn't bulk up your arsenal without actually buying a set with the required parts, which when you're 12 can mean waiting until Christmas or your birthday. It also required that if someone had more cannon than you, you had to be more cunning or tactical in your battle.

As I said on the IndyLUG forum this model is superb Bonaparte. One of the best I've ever seen on the standard width boat hulls. *sweet* I also like these ideas for Carronades. I've actually been on Constitution and seen them as depicted in the pictures posted by phred. I did a quick and dirty version for my Constitution MOC, which were just 2x2 rounds mounted horizontally with a couple of technic bits... Back in my younger days we used to mount barrels horizontally for them...using an L bracket or a hinged 2x2 brick (you may have noticed these on Potempkin). I like the built versions you guys have shown though. Adding Carronades is a good idea from a firepower standpoint. I think the Carronades on Constitution are 32 pounders. Even though the carronade doesn't have the range that a long gun has, with that size shot coming from the main deck along with a broadside of 24 pound guns on the gun deck...that's a lot of iron. One reason why the Humphrey's "Heavy Frigate" was so successful. (well and these hull lines :-P )

Bonaparte, I *really* like the cabin on this ship (they're always my favorite part to build for some reason). I'm thinking of rebuilding the potempkin again on regular hulls, sometime in the future. I may have to "steal" some of your techniques 8-o

If I recall correctly the Blunderbuss is something of a predacessor to a shotgun, in that it scattered small bits of shot in a large pattern rather than firing a single ball. I looked a bit and found that the flare on the barrel is designed, not to aid in the scattering of shot, but to aid in the loading of shot down the muzzle (these were, of course, muzzle loaded weapons). Because of it's ability to spread shot over a wide area I believe it was used on naval vessels for boarding action. I think I recall seeing the 19th century equivalent of the weapon at the USS Constitution Museum, along with other boarding weapons, like pikes. Anyway, it's same concept as riot control today. As far as the applicability to our LEGO parts, it's probably not incorrect to call the standard lego flintlock weapons "Blunderbusses"...especially since their first use was in the Pirate Theme sets. However, I also think the LEGO weapon can be whatever you want it to be based on it's purpose. Hence rifles on field soldiers, Blunderbusses for pirates, etc... Seeing that LEGO tends to abhor military equipment that looks like guns (and their refusal to make modern military models of anything...wouldn't jet fighter models be nice?)...and there aren't many alternative parts for our minifigs to carry anyway. And yes, the carbines from the Wild West and Adventurers series are nice, but they certainly don't look the part on Napoleonic era, or earlier, MOCs. Nor do the automatic weapons featured in the Batman series MOCs.

Napoleon, I had viewed the WIP pictures before but now as the model nears completion...I must say... That is definately one of the most magnificent Napoleonic era naval ships I've seen built on standard boat hulls. I cannot wait to see the completed model. :) P.S. Yes the girls worked...I could not but help click your signature from another thread :-P

Hey guys...sorry I didn't respond sooner. I do have topic reply notification enabled so I should get emails when the conversation continues...and I did get your request Mr. Tiber. Although I have been busy this weekend...please contact me here or directly if you have any questions I'd be glad to help. Anyway...yeah I can supply some of the build details of the Bellerophon model. I have a couple "partial built" .ldr files that I can supply that would probably be helpful. Just remember when I was "modeling" the model in ML-CAD I was doing a complete build to get a parts count. Therefore you may need to dissassemble some of the model in virtual space to see how it's built. Also I have installed the unofficial parts files, and I may have used some of them. If you get any part errors when you open these files just ignore them (say 'ok' to the prompts or whatever it asks)...most of the model would be regular bricks that are in the official files. Here is the forecastle... http://lego.paladinet.com/models/belleroph...-forecastle.ldr Here is the forcastle with most of the major hull in place. This will show you how the hull is built. For the most part it is a replication of the same build for the desired length... http://lego.paladinet.com/models/belleroph...artial-hull.ldr I don't have a good, easy to see model of the aftercastle and quarter deck. I'll see if I can prepare a file in the next few days. However the aftercastle is really just fitting the window galleries that protrude from the hull to the partial hull file. The protruding windows are set in place using 1x2x2 turntable plates. The angled windows in the back are simply an oversized version of the concept used in the aftercastle of the Black Seas Barracudda.

The gunports are made of the old style hinge plates... + There are two sets each per gun port. They are attached to the decking above the gunport but inset by one stud. On the "closing" part of the hinge it makes a 2x4 plate area. At the bottom is a 1x2 tile, and above it on the other two exposed studs is a 2x2 tile (making a 2x3 tiled flap that hinges up). That is the beauty of those old hinge plates is that they can be installed like that. I like the click-hinges for certain purposes...but I wish that lego hadn't stopped making the older style. Both have advantages and disadvantages. The click ones let you create stop-and-hold action parts which works especially well on mecha and sci-fi type stuff. However the flat hinges are a great part for S.N.O.T. techniques...

I recall reading somewhere that painting the gun port doors black gave the illusion of the power of the ship even with them closed (such as when viewing the ship at a distance through a glass or when in port). Certainly this image of the Victory shows that (the lower gun deck doors are closed). It would be very easy to add black tiles on the gun doors of Bellerophon rather than yellow ones to "correct" it. However I kind of like the sleek look it gives the model with the doors closed... Also, Napoleon, if you're going to design a model like this in MLcad...what I found was that once you figure out how to do the lower and middle gun deck you simply replicate that the desired length. The most complex parts were the beakhead and the stern castle. Also, 8x8 plates are excellent for creating the decking. There are probably 30 or 40 tan 8x8 plates in that model making up the gun decks. They're strong and easy to support and since they're not huge you can work in your "holes" (like the central cargo hold access in the center of the main deck) where you need them.

Well...let me see... I moved in 1991 to a new subdivison and that's when I made friends with three other guys and we began to do space and pirate lego "role playing scenarios" (for lack of a better description). I would have been 11. The first Potempkin model would have been built around 1992 in the summer because that's when I bought a Caribbean Clipper hull off of another guy in the neighborhood that didn't want his lego (if only bricklink had been available back in those days!!). However the first "Potempkins" were sail powered only. The very first one was blue and grey, the second one I built was the first red and black one. It was late in 1993 when I was in 6th grade that I put the paddle wheels on it for the first time. So I was probably 13 or 14 years old. However the model you guys see in the picture was built after 2000, I rebuilt it numerous times over the years. I know I have a picture somewhere of me holding one of the early Potempkin models as a little kid. I'll see if I can't dig that up and scan it in. *sweet*

You guys really raided my Brickshelf didn't ya! Well...again I humbly thank you all for your kind words and interest in my models. Yes this is the sum total of three carribean clippers plus an extra mid-hull segment. I was going for the Black Seas Baracudda look and build type for it. I also agree that the cannon placement is hardly realistic, yet it makes it slightly more formidible on this scale. The paradigm to which it was built is from my more youthful days when this ship would have actually "seen action" in mock wars with my Lego building buddies in grade and middle school. Therefore maximum firepower was paramount in the design and construction. The colours come from the compromises me and my buddies made which is a bit...unorthodox...but each of us chose our own colour scheme based on what we like and which country we represented... England's ship colours were blue and yellow, the blue soldiers flags represented England, red-coat soldiers were the marines for England. England was represented by my friend Robbie's fleet. Since this is ship is built to that standard, that is why this ship is the colours it is, and also why it carries the British naval flag. France's ship colours were grey and black. My friend James represented this country although he preferred to be a French Privateer, so his ships carried pirate flags, although I made a French tri-colour for him to fly on his flagship during battle. He later started making Iron Clad ships that's what this reflects, the blue soldiers flag on the ship in that link is not correct, it should have been a pirate flag. James tended to use any pirate minifig for soldiers and sailors, however french marines used one particular pirate torso, the blue one with a v-shape and brown strappings. These make an excellent soldier if you put tricorns on them and give them muskets. America's ship colours were black and red, the red soldiers flags represented America since it resembled the stripes on the stars and stripes. I likened it to a naval version of the Culpepper Flag used during the American Revolution. However American marines were blue-coat soldiers. The last friend was Robbie's brother he represented the Confederacy and built very little but mostly used white and green on his ships. He made his own confederate flags for his ships and used random minifigs as soldiers. Our wars were between America backed by England and the Confederacy backed by French privateers. This ship has a sad note to it's construction. I built it shortly after my friend Robbie was killed in an automobile accident in high school. It's sort of my personal memorial. However it often goes to IndyLUG shows and is frequently featured on layouts. Here it is fighting a Red Beard Runner (...and some sort of sea creature I think) in a recent IndyLUG layout.