General Part Discussion

[MKJoshA]

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

[Jurss]

1 hour ago, MKJoshA said:

What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

Old one doesn't work in sun. Also range is pretty limited. With bluetooth it works much stable.

Mercedes also has lot of good parts.

[SNIPE]

1 hour ago, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

Every lego app I've tried has just beem a complete and utter nightmare. It could be more awkward to use and so I strongly reccomend the physical bluetooth remotes.

I'm not sure if it would gear shift/diff lock but drive and steering should work fine.

Edited May 31, 2022 by SNIPE

[Jayden]

1 hour ago, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

the ability to code opens up lots more possibility and the C+ app is good too

Edited May 31, 2022 by Jayden

[allanp]

2 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

Many very mixed opinions. Just to scratch the surface the old one is very limited on features but very intuitive and fun to play with, and system is open to all the old 9v motors like buggy, ungeared 5x4 and micro motors. New app based RC has lots of features but many find that touch screen isn't fun to play with, coding needed to make custom creations, not a great range of motors to choose from (they are all big, slow with lots of torque, and that's it) and the whole system feels undercooked right now.

Edited May 31, 2022 by allanp

[thekoRngear]

14 minutes ago, allanp said:

Many very mixed opinions. Just to scratch the surface the old one is very limited on features but very intuitive and fun to play with, and system is open to all the old 9v motors like buggy, ungeared 5x4 and micro motors. New app based RC has lots of features but many find that touch screen isn't fun to play with, coding needed to make custom creations, not a great range of motors to choose from (they are all big, slow with lots of torque, and that's it) and the whole system feels undercooked right now.

Why slow? Why so much torque and less fast speed? Are those all made by keeping in mind only the crawler/off-road types and also construction vehocles? What's your opinion on this?

I still think, although the 42129 is made specifically for rough terrains/pure crawling, should also have an option to move faaaast on plain surface. If I ever decide to buy a Zetros I'd def consider @Ngoc Nguyen's no electronics mod with the electronics to use in a moc or something else. 

 

[gyenesvi]

5 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

I'd say 42129 is a good parts pack (3L motors are great, though I don't find the M motor so useful because it has no position sensor), and although I wasn't blown by the A model itself, it has also nice alternate models (including my own ones). About the App RC vs the old physically controlled RC, that's a tough call. As a software engineer, I was really enthusiastic about the programmability of the new PU line, all the possibilities of custom controller layouts, position sensors and all that, I saw great potential in it, but that potential was never fulfilled by TLG, so I am not so sure nowadays. I have built quite a few models with PU, and whenever I tried programming something simple (such as a profile for the Zetros, that has a diff lock/gearbox switch), I could not get it work the way I imagined. Also the official app had and still has bugs (steering, but maybe it's just my old tablet). Recently, I also built my first model with good old PF, and I have to say that it felt much more lego-like, plug-and-play that just works, and the physical controller just feels much better (for example, with the app controller, you don't feel the buttons, so unless you are looking at the screen instead of the model you are controlling, your finger can often slide off the knobs, in which case it just jumps back to the center, that's really irritating).

2 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

Why slow? Why so much torque and less fast speed? Are those all made by keeping in mind only the crawler/off-road types and also construction vehocles? What's your opinion on this?

And then there's this. It seems to me that the new motor lineup is not so well thought through (and also not their relation to the new components like planetary wheel hubs, hence too slow). The M motor is just the same as the PF M motor with a new plug, so it does not fit the whole line of motors with position sensors. The PU L motor is slower than the PF, the PU XL motor is faster than the PF, so they are almost identical in speed, though there's some torque difference. Then there's no dedicated servo, but the L is used as a steering/function switching servo which can be powerful and really accurate if the model has enough space for it, but it's quite big for a servo (compare with this for example), and I found the shape of the old servo quite useful too, with 2-way outputs (the PU XL is practically useless for steering, it's not accurate enough and way too big). I think this all comes from TLG trying to save cost and make more multi-purpose motors, and the end result is a system that's not really great for anything; it's not powerful enough for larger models, and it's too bulky for small models. Then there are all the Mindstorms/Spike angular motors that are promising but even more bulky, and are not compatible with the stock PU software and are harder to acquire/expensive (not in technic sets).

All that said, I think it's still worth trying PU with one set. With the motors in the Zetros you should be able to build quite good models, we'll hopefully get a rechargeable battery insert for the technic hub that will make models faster than AA rechargeable batteries, and BrickController2 could be used for physical control (if you have a compatible gamepad controller).

[Gimmick]

6 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

Well, it highly depends on what you already have at home. My personal situation and opinion:

I already had a XBox gamepad, smartphone, I know how to use the app-store, I'm interested in coding (pybricks, PU), I like to experiment with technical things, I bought a cheap PoweredUp remote on bricklink ... I do not go outside and "race" with lego models, I do not actively play hours in a row....

I don't care, that I have to use pybricks (copy/paste code) or a smartphone as "hub device". I can use touchinterface, gamepads, Lego controller,... -> I like it, because it fits my needs.

If you want the old "less functions simple to use" feeling from PF, buy a PoweredUp remote invest 30 min once to understand how you can simply copy the pybricks examples  https://pybricks.com/projects/sets/technic/42129-mercedes-benz-zetros/powered-up-remote/

 

50 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

I think this all comes from TLG trying to save cost and make more multi-purpose motors, and the end result is a system that's not really great for anything;

They simply applied the brick-concept to the motors. Which may not be performance oriented, but it supports building.

[Maaboo the Witch]

7 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

I favour Power Functions for the pick-up-and-play experience, easy integration in models, and versatility. CONTROL+ (or whatever TLG is calling it this week) feels very limited in comparison, and a lot of the sets feel like proof-of-concepts rather than functional models.

Plus the app interface is often unintuitive and the app itself is a battery and storage hog.

Edited May 31, 2022 by Maaboo35

[Jay Psi]

7 hours ago, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

Disclaimer: When it comes to Lego electronics, I've never been satisfied by the in-house options; I've found third-party solutions (SBrick, BuWizz, FxBricks, PyBricks, etc.) to be worth the teething issues for the functionality they provide.

Control+ has potential, but in its base form, it is held back by a number of factors. For me, the most significant one is using a touch screen. This is easily rectified in a number of ways, but all of them require extra steps compared to simply turning on the battery box and the Powered Up remote, and immediately playing. If you're comfortable with coding though, the options for integration are large.

On the other hand, Powered Up isn't going to offer you any more than it currently does. I've never been a fan personally, although for what it's worth, PU has been much better at showing non-AFOLs what Lego can do, even now.

<British weather joke>The fact the remote is infrared, and therefore suffers in strong sunlight, hasn't been a significant hindrance in my experience.</British weather joke>

As for the 42129, if it has exactly the Control+ parts you want and it's decently discounted, then go for it. I'd recommend looking at 42124 if you want to see what C+ has to offer at a cheaper price.

[Ivan_M]

22 hours ago, astyanax said:

True. But for the 'Standard' parts that are available, at least the expected delivery time is "11-15 days" as opposed to the 5-6 weeks we got all of 2022 so far... 

I have placed an order on B&P on 2nd MARCH and it is not yet shipped.. pathetic. Pick a brick is a joke.. Well i guess I will have to wait till the new parts appear on Bricklink

[Maaboo the Witch]

4 minutes ago, Ivan_M said:

I have placed an order on B&P on 2nd MARCH and it is not yet shipped.. pathetic. Pick a brick is a joke.. Well i guess I will have to wait till the new parts appear on Bricklink

Tell me about it. My most recent order took well over a month, which is bad enough, but the time you've had to wait is beyond ridiculous.

[keymaker]

30 minutes ago, Ivan_M said:

I have placed an order on B&P on 2nd MARCH and it is not yet shipped.. pathetic. Pick a brick is a joke.. Well i guess I will have to wait till the new parts appear on Bricklink 

Make sure if you order will be ever shipped... I had the same problem with my order. I contacted them and it turns out they lost my order in the system ;/ I lost the chance to get nice parts before this break period and whole new system introduction.

[Ivan_M]

9 minutes ago, keymaker said:

Make sure if you order will be ever shipped... I had the same problem with my order. I contacted them and it turns out they lost my order in the system ;/ I lost the chance to get nice parts before this break period and whole new system introduction.

dang, that would be really bad, it was loaded with new parts from recent sets like the 3x19 frames.. All those parts are super expensive on brick link.. I wish that lego would just opened store on BL with proper listing and notifications

[keymaker]

2 minutes ago, Ivan_M said:

like the 3x19 frames.

Same here, I was very pissed that they lost my order and now no frames for me.

[astyanax]

7 minutes ago, keymaker said:

Same here, I was very pissed that they lost my order and now no frames for me.

They "lost" your order? Or did they just cancel the orders with inconvenient parts?

[keymaker]

1 hour ago, astyanax said:

They "lost" your order? Or did they just cancel the orders with inconvenient parts?

"Lost in the system" is official answer I got from them, they weren't even able to recover list of ordered items. What was the truth? Who knows.

 

@astyanax I just checked date of my order, it was also placed 2nd MARCH...So maybe they really had some hard times with servers that day. It is a little too much for coincidence.

Edited May 31, 2022 by keymaker

[allanp]

7 hours ago, thekoRngear said:

Why slow? Why so much torque and less fast speed? Are those all made by keeping in mind only the crawler/off-road types and also construction vehocles? What's your opinion on this?

I still think, although the 42129 is made specifically for rough terrains/pure crawling, should also have an option to move faaaast on plain surface. If I ever decide to buy a Zetros I'd def consider @Ngoc Nguyen's no electronics mod with the electronics to use in a moc or something else. 

 

I don't know why so slow, I guess it's easier to have the gearing done for you? But the whole point if Technic is you get to build all these cool mechanisms. Why have much of it done for you in a prebuilt assembly? Why have many different motors that are all the same, all geared slow and powerful instead of having a range, like:

1) 2x2x3 micro motor (very slow, 40-60rpm)

2) 2x3x5 micro servo with central axle hole (pairs nicely with valves)

3) 4x5 L motor (minimal internal gearing if any, minimum 2000 rpm)

4) 5x5 XL high torque motor (roughly 800-1000rpm)

 5) Ludicrous buggy motor! (Just POWAH, similar speed and torque of old buggy motor but in less weird, more usable form factor)

That's a greater range of options for less motors! I suspect the motor driver chips are in the hubs, but would be better in the actual motors, with hubs providing bus power and signal only. I might be wrong on that though.

Edited May 31, 2022 by allanp

[MKJoshA]

Wow, and I thought Lego SW fans were passionate! Thanks for all the feedback. I just have a couple battery boxes and motors right now. I haven't done any coding before, but I'm a quick learner if I go that route. It doesn't turn me off at least. What I'm most worried about is being locked into an app. What happens if they stop support it? What if I don't want to have to use my phone?

I should also say that I'm less interested in getting a car to drive and more interested in movement in general. I'm trying to expand into some Technic to 1) engage more with my kids and 2) add movement to my MOCs.

From what has been shared so far sounds like I could do all that with the Power Functions instead of being tied to an app with Control +.

[howitzer]

7 minutes ago, MKJoshA said:

Wow, and I thought Lego SW fans were passionate! Thanks for all the feedback. I just have a couple battery boxes and motors right now. I haven't done any coding before, but I'm a quick learner if I go that route. It doesn't turn me off at least. What I'm most worried about is being locked into an app. What happens if they stop support it? What if I don't want to have to use my phone?

I should also say that I'm less interested in getting a car to drive and more interested in movement in general. I'm trying to expand into some Technic to 1) engage more with my kids and 2) add movement to my MOCs.

From what has been shared so far sounds like I could do all that with the Power Functions instead of being tied to an app with Control +.

There are third party options which allow you to use motors even if the apps support stops. There's also some options to control the motors without an app, but that requires some tinkering.

For simple, dumb movement without speed control or any automation, PF is definitely better, but as it's discontinued, I wouldn't go and buy PF parts anymore unless I already had some significant amount of them.

[shroomzofdoom]

 

On 5/30/2022 at 11:05 PM, MKJoshA said:

I'm considering getting the 42129 4x4 Mercedes-Benz for the RC feature. What is everyone's opinion on the new App RC vs the old handheld remote RC?

I'm a new AFOL (50 years of age, but 2 in Lego years) I've spent alot of $$ assembling the top 10 Technic sets and, while PF has more compact motors, I find the plugs and IR limitations problematic. The Control+ programming environment is a major buzzkill and even though I can code, I just didn't want to deal with it. I was absolutely disappointed by the Zetros because it can only climb flat smooth ramps. By far, Gynesvi's C model buggy is way more fun. I really like the programming environment and flexibility of the new mindstorms hub if I'm going all lego. You can pair a bluetooth controller from a Playstation or Xbox and you can do more with it when compared to the other hubs....If I had it to do all over again, I'd have gotten the 51515 set much sooner. 

[astyanax]

On 5/26/2022 at 7:33 PM, astyanax said:

Still not the perfect parts pack.  We're still missing these panels in red:

  

Spoke too soon... The leftmost panel is coming in Red in set 42145 (Airbus H175 Rescue Helicopter).

Red seems by far the most "complete" color now. Last year it looked like Lime was getting ahead, but Red is back in force!

[howitzer]

26 minutes ago, astyanax said:

Spoke too soon... The leftmost panel is coming in Red in set 42145 (Airbus H175 Rescue Helicopter).

Red seems by far the most "complete" color now. Last year it looked like Lime was getting ahead, but Red is back in force!

Lime has never been ahead of red, though it's not far behind either. Here's a list, not updated with the Ferrari and other 2H releases of this year: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1MdCtQMN_kaaMzyWy_blFLJNzT05f4dCxXS1Nx3DhfDU/edit?usp=sharing

Edited June 2, 2022 by howitzer

[langko]

22 minutes ago, astyanax said:

Spoke too soon... The leftmost panel is coming in Red in set 42145 (Airbus H175 Rescue Helicopter).

Red seems by far the most "complete" color now. Last year it looked like Lime was getting ahead, but Red is back in force!

Well I would still say black is the most "complete" colour, but for those that want something less dark I'd definitely agree with red being the best colour to build in.

Lime is still missing above mentioned panel and also the curved 3x7 panel. They must not like using those dimensions in lime haha

[howitzer]

1 minute ago, langko said:

Well I would still say black is the most "complete" colour, but for those that want something less dark I'd definitely agree with red being the best colour to build in.

Lime is still missing above mentioned panel and also the curved 3x7 panel. They must not like using those dimensions in lime haha

Black is missing most of the fender pieces, otherwise it would indeed be the most complete colour. Blue, yellow and white are doing pretty good also, but there are gaps.