Flagships: The good and the not so

[DrJB]

Based on another current thread, it appears this year's flagship (Volvo Wheel Loader), despite all the hype and excitement/anticipation, won't be going to many homes after all. This begs the question: what makes a flagship worthy? The size, novelty, PF, complexity, price, ... And how would you rate the other flagships, which are must-have, and which are not so?

[TinkerBrick]

For me it is about the price, the overall appearance and the novelty of pieces. I rarely buy sets for the MSRP, excluding those exclusive to TLG's own retail channels. So if there is a good price, i might be tempted. The novelty of pieces is more interesting to me. I'm passing on this years Volvo. Besides the bucket, i had all the pieces in my inventory (i don't care about small breaks in the color scheme). So i ordered to the bucket via TLG's CS. IMHO the last must have flagship was the 8110 Unimog, not to mention its predecessors (8258 and 8043).

Well, i got the 2 later ones too, but mostly for the parts. The 9398 is technically boring, but a fun toy and it got the new motors. The 42009 crane is more or less OK, but only cool in its ultimate version.

[Ondra]

I dont have too many flagships.I dont like RC flagships, because I hardly play with they and RC have many limitations.Flagship that I love is Unimog, this baby has everything and suspensions is for me as fan of offroad trucks a dream.

[Freekysch]

Although the subject was already mentioned before, it is hard to decide what makes a flagship a must have. For me, the thing that matters the most is the looks of the set and then the complexity and number of functions. For example, I LOVE 8285 Tow Truck, it is one of my favorite flagships, even if it does not have a lot of gears or even a gearbox. However, for the 1st place i can nominate 8043 and 8258. They are both so different but they bring out all of the attributes that a Technic flagship should have: looks, functions, playability !

Another very good set is 8275, even if the design is not brilliant, this is a must have for any Technic set collector, it was the first set in which PF appeared and the combination of studded and studless beams is just perfect. I do not think TLG will ever make a Bulldozer so beautiful (i am talking mostly about the front blade here).

42009 is my latest purchased set, it is very nice and big, but in my opinion it is not in the same league with the above mentioned.

[Erik Leppen]

what makes a flagship worthy?

I think that depends on who you ask. What's worthy for me, could be mediocre to someone else.

I'm all in it for the parts. So I'll probably be buying the cargo plane 42025 as my next set. (As a 1300-part set I consider it a flagship even though 42030 came out in the same year). As far as parts goes, 8285, 8258, 8421 were all great deals, and 42009 might be the best deal of them all.

But my main criterion I use for "worthiness" is their "Technicity" - the complexity and ingenuity of the functions, and whether a set looks like it was actually a challenge to design. That's my judgement ruler, really.

I think 8070 is a great set, even though I don't own it. It looks great, and it has interesting fucntions (many disagree, but most people disagree on the idea, not its execution). 8258 is absolutely a marvel and might get my vote for best flagship so far, and 8043 was really worthy as well. On the contrary, I think 8285 is a poor set - it offers almost nothing in the aspect of interesting functionality. There's no interesting dilemmas to be tackled in the design of that set, because there's simply so much room for everything. Compare that to 8043, where a real challenge has been overcome designing that model and fitting everything in. When building 8043, you can see it was hard to design. 8285 looks easy to design. No surprises, no compromises.

That's also why I think 42008 is a really great set, for example. The more compact, the better. It still surprises me that 42008 has as many as 1300 pieces. That's almost as many as 8880!

My last criterion is a good alternative model. That's another place where 42025 shines, IMO.

• 8275 had no real B-model
  
• 8421 had no real B-model
  
• 8110 had no real B-model
  
• 42009's B model is meh (I'd much rather have seen a single vehicle)
  
• 8285's B-model is meh (it was mostly just beams)

I can't remember a great flagship that had a great B-model, except 8868 (that said, I don't remember all B-models), and in the studless era 8070B looks really nice.

[Kumbbl]

Your mentioned 8880 Set has IMHO One of the best B-models. A really well designed and cute Indy racecar...Same fir the 8485 , the t-Rex is even better than the a-model... The Buggy of 8479 is Not huge, has Not many functions, Not many parts, no complex geartrains but nevertheless it is One of my favorite b-models... The b-model of the 9397 logging Truck is also very very good...

[Erik Leppen]

True, there are some seriously good B-models in the studded era.

I do think that in the studless era, in general, the quality of B-models has gone down a bit.

[Kumbbl]

Yes it seems so. How good they could be can be seen at some awesome c-models as e.g.:

Tow Truck of 8258 by MrTekneex

Truck of 42009 by MrTekneex

Hot Rod of 42000 by Nat Kuipers

All of them are way better models than the official b-models...

For the first and the third there exist BI - strong recommendation because they are very enjoying builds and great designs...

[dr_spock]

Yeah, there are a number of threads on flagships floating around the forum.

I only own a couple flagships: 8258, 8043, 8110 and 42009. I seem to be interested in crane like functions. Not a lot of desire to get the Volvo front loader.

[Thirdwigg]

For me it's price and part content. I dug deep to purchase 8110 because there were come great new parts, pneumatic, and those wheels.

I cannot justify (for instance) $220 for 42009 to get a couple great new parts and also 214 3 Pins and 62 Axle 3.

Granted, there are a lot of other parts in flagships that are valuable, but I'll get those on Bricklink. I don't get enough satisfaction from building the Flagship once to justify the cost, and I no longer have the need for volume of supplemental parts.

[nerdsforprez]

* Sigh* Its posts like these that make me sad about my "dark ages" - I was just getting back into LEGO when 8043 was retiring. Still want the set, but now the prices are ridiculous.

I can't comment on cool things like "studded versus studless" era b/c I only know the studless. I was able to pick up a super street sensation on the cheap, so that is a small redemption, but other than that I have no experience with the older flagships like the crane truck, older cranes, etc which I think is imperative to accurately respond to this post.

[DrJB]

* Sigh* Its posts like these that make me sad about my "dark ages" - I was just getting back into LEGO when 8043 was retiring. Still want the set, but now the prices are ridiculous.

I can't comment on cool things like "studded versus studless" era b/c I only know the studless. I was able to pick up a super street sensation on the cheap, so that is a small redemption, but other than that I have no experience with the older flagships like the crane truck, older cranes, etc which I think is imperative to accurately respond to this post.

Have faith, I have seen many sets increase in value, then drop dramatically. The nice thing about 8043 is that all parts are available elsewhere, so it can be bricklinked. I do have it (8043), and not thinking of getting rid of it, but ultimately prices will come down, once many people get bored of it, as they are today of the old Ferraris, Silver Champion, and 8466. Prices for those lately have been in the $120-150 range on eBay, lowest I've seen them.

Edited December 15, 2014 by DrJB

[Freekysch]

Hmm, i think 8043 will have the same faith as 8275, the prices are not going to drop but ofc there is a big change to get it at a decent price when someone who is not interested in profit will eventually want to sell it. However, i recommand getting 42006, it is a good substitute for 8043 (not in the same league, but until you buy the excavator i think you will enjoy it)

[AssembleToDissasemble]

I just ordered my first big Technic set ever, the 42009. Amazon is selling it for $190 so I thought I'd jump on the deal but there seems to be some negativity around here regarding the 42009. Am I making a mistake? I could still return the order. Why do people not like it as much as they liked the original Mobile crane 8421? Back when I was a kid that was my dream Lego set, I would look at pictures of it for hours upon hours...

[Freekysch]

42009 is a very good set, it has a lot of parts, the model itself is huge, it has nice functions, so go for it ! In my opinion it is 8421 big brother.

[Saberwing40k]

I just ordered my first big Technic set ever, the 42009. Amazon is selling it for $190 so I thought I'd jump on the deal but there seems to be some negativity around here regarding the 42009. Am I making a mistake? I could still return the order. Why do people not like it as much as they liked the original Mobile crane 8421? Back when I was a kid that was my dream Lego set, I would look at pictures of it for hours upon hours...

Meh, it's because of the fact that 8421 exists, and the inevitable comparisons, and how 42009 is not as original, or whatever. I, however, say different. It's a great set, and great for anyone who likes 8421. Sure, it's not perfect, but no set is. I think you got a great deal on a great set, and will enjoy it. And, if you ever get tired of it, the B model is pretty nice, and we on the forums have two ongoing threads about making it better.

For me, a good flagship is innovative, and has great functions. 42009 is not quite as innovative, but it has great functions, and is fun to play with. 8043 was very innovative, and had a lot of great functions as well. 42030, however, I'm kind of dubious of. It's not very technically exciting, but it's fun to play with. I don't dislike it, but when it comes to what I will be spending my hard earned money on, it's not near the top of my list.

[AssembleToDissasemble]

Thanks for the reassurance guys, I'm mostly interested in the build-experience, realism and the ability to create interesting MOCs rather than playability. That's why I was absolutely dead set on the 42009 when I saw that it was the biggest technic model ever made!

[Richard Dower]

Looks, part count, functions and price. All these criteria met with me personal fave set 8285.

[5imon]

I'd say my main criterion of something being a good flagship is purely emotional. However, it's interesting where the emotion comes from. For me, it's looks and interesting technical features. To be honest, I don't have a lot of experience with flagships, just the few I own.

My first flagship was the 8860 back in my childhood. For its time, it was the summit of what could be done, it introduced new tachniques and parts, like springs or a differential. For me it was also part of my learning how a car works. And I strongly remember my emotions at the christmas I got it. So i'm still very attached to this model, although I don't own it any more.

Then there was the 8258. My first AFOL flagship. It was a similar experience for me as with the car chassis. Lots of functions (which were new for me at the time), an interesting and long lasting building experience and good looks (ok, could have been better witch double rear wheels...).

Last, but not least, the Unimog 8110. Because it's big and orange. And it also featured some new parts when it comes to suspension and drivetrain.

About the latest flagships, I'm not so sure. The mobile cranes just don't touch me emotionally, although I follow the discussion about the umtimate 42009 here on EB and I get more and more tempted to try and build it (after saving and buying a truckload of parts). The Le Mans car seems interesting for its colours and some new parts, I also like the B-model very much. However, if the bright green will stay exclusive for this model, I don't see much sense in buying it. Anyway, I more and more tend to not buying large sets anymore since they add a lot of redundant parts I already have. I rather complement my stock with the missing parts of a model and build it from PDF instructions.

[dr_spock]

I just ordered my first big Technic set ever, the 42009. Amazon is selling it for $190 so I thought I'd jump on the deal but there seems to be some negativity around here regarding the 42009. Am I making a mistake? I could still return the order. Why do people not like it as much as they liked the original Mobile crane 8421? Back when I was a kid that was my dream Lego set, I would look at pictures of it for hours upon hours...

Since you are starting fresh and don't have an 8241 already, I think you'll enjoy the 42009. If not, it is a good sets of parts for your own creations.

[sm 01]

* Sigh* Its posts like these that make me sad about my "dark ages" - I was just getting back into LEGO when 8043 was retiring. Still want the set, but now the prices are ridiculous.

Luckily, I got back into LEGO just before 8043 retired. It was love at first sight and, although I didn't know anything about TECHNIC, I knew that I want it.

As it turned out, 8043 has ended my dark ages.

In my opinion good flagship must have both; attractiveness to spark the interest of new people to LEGO and innovation to meet the interest of existing fans.

[veryrusty]

I'm with 5imon. For me it is all about emotion. And that comes down to subject and size. I remember staring at the ads in the back of the instruction books and wishing that my parents were richer.

For me the 8480 was the ultimate flagship. This was in my dark ages. When I found out it existed I went from nothing to desire in seconds. I mean who doesn't want a spaceship. So I got one. I didn't care if it was old 9v and that the lights didn't work. It is still awesome.

In that vein I would say other recent flagship to have are 8070 and 8043. I would also include the Ferrari racers. If a small boy or girl will climb a shelf to try and play with it, then it's a successful flagship.

[TFDev]

For me the 8480 was the ultimate flagship. This was in my dark ages. When I found out it existed I went from nothing to desire in seconds. I mean who doesn't want a spaceship. So I got one. I didn't care if it was old 9v and that the lights didn't work. It is still awesome.

In that vein I would say other recent flagship to have are 8070 and 8043. I would also include the Ferrari racers. If a small boy or girl will climb a shelf to try and play with it, then it's a successful flagship.

so recognizable! About a year back i've bought a used 8485 and 8480. And last month the Ferrari 8145 and 8653 and also the 8070