PF XL Motor

[1974]

It's certainly not, I can assure you of that my friend

You'll be surprised of what is to come, allthough it is a little late in the game

[Brickthus]

I have asked whether here could be a light brick with alternate lights, rather than both being on at the same time. This would be great for red/green signals.

In the meantime I'm using red/green 3-lead LEDs with a circuit conforming to standard PF protocols that can also make a good yellow, the 3 colours R, Y, G corresponding to up, middle (off) and down of a pole reverser switch in a panel.

Will any further lights with a conventional PF plug input be forthcoming?

Mark

[9v system]

I have asked whether here could be a light brick with alternate lights, rather than both being on at the same time. This would be great for red/green signals.

In the meantime I'm using red/green 3-lead LEDs with a circuit conforming to standard PF protocols that can also make a good yellow, the 3 colours R, Y, G corresponding to up, middle (off) and down of a pole reverser switch in a panel.

Will any further lights with a conventional PF plug input be forthcoming?

Mark

I use my old lights because they are smaller to implement into MOCS and they flash which pf lights don't.

[edsmith0075]

I would like tO| see some evolution and development in the battery department! The major hurdle and challenge for most PF MOC builders is being restricted to the 4 wide battery holder! This creates alot of design challenges. RC battery packs and other hobbies have been able to compress and utilize smaller more compact designs. If lego could compress the overall size of the PF devices this would change the game for alot of MOCers. I personally have decided to give up on six wide trains as the power sources needed to power longer trains is simply not feasible. 8 wide here I come, I will be able to utilize BT, 9 volt RC quick charge battery packs, and create more detailed locomotives ( diesel and steam ).

Has anyone else shared my frustration with the battery packs and power supply options that PF is limited too?

[nerdsforprez]

The question is: do we NEED new motors?? What's wrong with the current ones?

Having something wrong is not synonymous with not being able to be improved upon. Although there may not be something specifically wrong with the current PF stuff that does not mean that they cannot be improved.

[pirzyk]

I would like tO| see some evolution and development in the battery department! The major hurdle and challenge for most PF MOC builders is being restricted to the 4 wide battery holder! This creates alot of design challenges. RC battery packs and other hobbies have been able to compress and utilize smaller more compact designs. If lego could compress the overall size of the PF devices this would change the game for alot of MOCers. I personally have decided to give up on six wide trains as the power sources needed to power longer trains is simply not feasible. 8 wide here I come, I will be able to utilize BT, 9 volt RC quick charge battery packs, and create more detailed locomotives ( diesel and steam ).

Has anyone else shared my frustration with the battery packs and power supply options that PF is limited too?

I've powered a 26 car long train with a single Maersk engine (2 PF motors) and using a single LiPo battery. I was able to make it run for 3 hours before it turned itself off. Because it took a short time to recharge, I think it was not fully drained and just hit the timeout.

As for the size of the battery have been limited, I tried to make a PF version of the GP-38 but since the battery sides are exposed I had to change the livery and not use the BSNF.

[Brickthus]

I would like tO| see some evolution and development in the battery department! The major hurdle and challenge for most PF MOC builders is being restricted to the 4 wide battery holder! This creates alot of design challenges. RC battery packs and other hobbies have been able to compress and utilize smaller more compact designs. If lego could compress the overall size of the PF devices this would change the game for alot of MOCers. I personally have decided to give up on six wide trains as the power sources needed to power longer trains is simply not feasible. 8 wide here I come, I will be able to utilize BT, 9 volt RC quick charge battery packs, and create more detailed locomotives ( diesel and steam ).

Has anyone else shared my frustration with the battery packs and power supply options that PF is limited too?

The 4-wide battery boxes are only a restriction to the narrow parts of the bodies of diesel locos. In some cases a bespoke casing colour was used, similar to the practice for the 9V PP3 battery box. The latter i still an option for low power items - probably excluding trains except fora shunter on its own.

There have been ideas such as a different shape of LiPo battery box but it consists of 2x standard 3.7V cells and a control part. At £43 the cost is quite high enough and could not justify being rearranged into a longer, flatter format, even thoguh that would be easier to hide in a train coach.

Having something wrong is not synonymous with not being able to be improved upon. Although there may not be something specifically wrong with the current PF stuff that does not mean that they cannot be improved.

PF has a good range of motors but there are still gaps in the range. We have slow high power (XL), torque for big vehicles and locos (L), general purpose (M), generator/high speed & low power (E), steering/point control (servo) and the best train motor we could have wished for. A replacement for the 9V micro motor (click on translate) would be nice but its original inventor died :(

A shorter version of the L-motor with just a single gear stage might be nice, for faster medium power for a propeller. At least there is scope to add to the range.

Adding to the range of PF-compatible lighting options is a bit easier than making our own motors, hence my railway loco and signal light experiments.

Mark

[9v system]

i think i should design a better micro motor . I have the engineering skills to do that

[Brickthus]

The old one did 25rpm with 0.3W of mechanical power in a 2x2x2 volume. The key challenges are getting a motor in the small space and getting a high gear ratio in the small space with the whole thing having enough starting torque.

In theory a harmonic drive can give 300:1 ratio in a single stage in a small space but it would need a flexible element, probably nylon. Possible with 3D printing but needs reliability.

I would be happy to see a short version of the PF M-motor, but a micro motor needs a higher gear ratio, not a lower one. Therefore a shorter M-motor would be better as a faster motor e.g. for propellers.

Mark

[Aaron]

To be honest, a more powerful rechargeable battery is all that I could really ask for. While I do love the LiPo batteries and use them in all of my trains, they are only 7.4V, thus are unable to make use of the full potential of the motors. 11.1V is possible, as it's still within the safety threshold of power functions motors. It would definitely reduce the need for some people to use custom batteries. It would be interesting to see if they do add anything new over the next few years, but even if nothing changes, the system they have now is still my favorite because it allows for the LEGO trains to have their own power source, much like real trains.

[MusicaRibelle]

Size matters. I would like IR and battery to both fit together the footprint of 4x6x3, or two studs shorter of the current battery box.

And combine that with XL torque in the space of the M motor.

This thread is not about reality, right? ;)

[Aaron]

Size matters. I would like IR and battery to both fit together the footprint of 4x6x3, or two studs shorter of the current battery box.

And combine that with XL torque in the space of the M motor.

This thread is not about reality, right? ;)

I don't run into space constraints since I build in 10-wide, but if you gear down an L motor, you can come close to the torque of an XL motor. There's a way to do pretty much anything with the current lineup, and I'd say the L motor is about as "Goldilocks" as they get as far as compactness and versatility goes.

Edited January 25, 2015 by Aaron

[codefox421]

To be honest, a more powerful rechargeable battery is all that I could really ask for. While I do love the LiPo batteries and use them in all of my trains, they are only 7.4V, thus are unable to make use of the full potential of the motors. 11.1V is possible, as it's still within the safety threshold of power functions motors. It would definitely reduce the need for some people to use custom batteries. It would be interesting to see if they do add anything new over the next few years, but even if nothing changes, the system they have now is still my favorite because it allows for the LEGO trains to have their own power source, much like real trains.

11.1V may be within the safe operating range of the motors, but the motor driver chip in the IR receiver maxes out at ~10V if I recall correctly. Not to mention a fully charged 3 cell LiPo is closer to 12V. I may have looked into this at one time.

[9v system]

NO NEW ELECTRICAL SYSTEM!

Is that loud enough? I'm allowed to share that info

no I don't think it is

[bonox]

it would need a flexible element, probably nylon. Possible with 3D printing but needs reliability.

Didn't seem to be a concern for the original