Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Aanchir]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Hero Factory has pretty much always been a smaller theme than BIONICLE, just in terms of the number of sets. It had 15 sets in its first half-year wave, which I suppose is noteworthy, but most years of BIONICLE averaged as many sets per wave or more. I don't think Hero Factory was ever expected to be as huge a deal as BIONICLE even when it was first developed. And it didn't need to be — unlike when BIONICLE first came out, the LEGO Group was thriving during pretty much the entirety of Hero Factory's run, so they weren't relying on the constraction category as a lifeline. Contrast Ninjago, which even back in its debut year was being promoted as "LEGO's biggest new initiative since BIONICLE!" It got its own series of books, a TV special, a graphic novel, a handheld video game, and plenty of online promotional support in its debut year.

What did Hero Factory get, by comparison? A few comics, an admittedly nice promotional booklet packaged with LEGO Club Magazine, an online game, a telephone hotline, a twelve-episode podcast, and a four-episode miniseries which mainly existed to fulfill the contract Tinseltown Toons had for two additional BIONICLE movies. Not quite as daring in terms of promotional story media.

[TwistLaw]

With what Aanchir said, do you think BIONICLE will get a big multimedia launch, like it first had? Or even bigger?

[Aanchir]

With what Aanchir said, do you think BIONICLE will get a big multimedia launch, like it first had? Or even bigger?

It definitely has the potential to be bigger, since the LEGO Group has a lot more power and influence than they did back when the theme was new. And it's been increasing year by year. Back when Ninjago came out, a 44-minute TV special was a big investment for a new theme, and most of the books didn't start to come out until the theme had been out for several months. But after Ninjago's success, Legends of Chima got a lot of its media out of the gate a lot faster, with a full TV series and plenty of books released just shortly after the sets launched. With the recent success of The LEGO Movie, I think media entities are going to be lining up for a slice of the LEGO pie, and the LEGO Group can afford to be a bit choosy about which ones they trust the BIONICLE franchise to (companies like Papercutz, Scholastic, Dorling Kindersley, Ghost, and AMEET that have a strong working relationship with the LEGO Group will definitely have an advantage in that regard).

But it's unclear whether the LEGO Group would want to make BIONICLE's launch too huge, necessarily. The first wave is thirteen sets as far as we know. This is big, but not necessarily what you'd expect of a "big bang" theme like Ninjago (which launched with 16 sets, including two store exclusives) or Chima (which launched with 16 sets, including three store exclusives). If there are any store-exclusive BIONICLE sets that we don't know about yet, then that might boost its numbers. Also, again, there aren't necessarily as many hopes riding on BIONICLE's success as there were back in 2001. It's not the LEGO Group's first or only foray into developing a heavily story-driven intellectual property anymore — rather, it's one of many.

Since it seems we will be getting Matoran sets, I'd LOVE something like the Mata Nui Online Game again. That alone could do a great deal to set it apart from other themes like Ninjago, Hero Factory, or Legends of Chima, in which the online and mobile games don't tend to be very heavy on storytelling.

I think we can definitely expect books of some sort, whether they show up towards the beginning of the year or later on. Comics, too, are likely to show up, whether as single-issue comics like in BIONICLE's heyday or as graphic novels like in the Ninjago and Legends of Chima themes. As for animated media, I have no idea what we might expect, but I have no doubt we'll see something. And a mobile game of some sort is practically a given. However, I don't know that I'd count on seeing a video game for handheld consoles like Nintendo 3DS and PSVita, even if Ninjago and Legends of Chima each got one. It could be a lot harder to adapt the established formulas for LEGO games to the BIONICLE theme that well, and even then there's no telling whether video games without minifigure characters would have the same widespread appeal.

[Dorek]

Also, again, there aren't necessarily as many hopes riding on BIONICLE's success as there were back in 2001. It's not the LEGO Group's first or only foray into developing a heavily story-driven intellectual property anymore — rather, it's one of many.

It's this in particular that doesn't leave me hopeful for much in terms of multimedia. Hero Factory proved that the appetite for the sets is there, but not a lot of the extraneous efforts. The books were a bust, the comic series fizzled out almost as quickly as it started, and the only reason we have a TV special this year is because ADVANCE got jazzed about the mech aspect.

If they're synergizing any past lessons, we likely won't see much. The sets have always filled the right niche, and I'm sure will see bits and pieces of transmedia for support, but one of the (several) contributing factors to BIONICLE getting the axe in the past was the lack of commercial support from the target audience, because the story was inaccessible.

I guess a lot of it boils down to: why BIONICLE? Why this name, as opposed to a new theme? Clearly they must be going for some amount of brand-recognition, but that will only carry them so far. Just repeating their past methods is a recipe for a quick cancellation.

(that is, assuming this apparent return isn't a one-off anyway!)

[VBBN]

The way I see it is, Lego runs it for 2-4 years and see how it goes. If things start to go south, they kick in with a new theme, and maybe after a few years of that they go back to Bionicle, and repeat the process. Aqua raiders, Agents, Space police, a variety of system themes have at one point or another returned to a theme to cater to a new audience/give fans of the previous line something new from it. Not even just for entire themes, but sublines within themes can return, how many times has City revisited police, fire, or construction? Just because Bionicle had such a long run and is part of constraction, doesn't mean some of that mindset could be applied here.

[dviddy]

note that BIONICLE was launched in decemeber 2000

BIONICLE was launched in the US in summer 2001, and according to TLG employees, the US was far and away the largest market for BIONICLE sets and media, so I don't think comparing the theme's soft launch in Europe with the hard launch of HF world-wide entirely accurate.

[Leewan]

The way I see it is, Lego runs it for 2-4 years and see how it goes. If things start to go south, they kick in with a new theme, and maybe after a few years of that they go back to Bionicle, and repeat the process. Aqua raiders, Agents, Space police, a variety of system themes have at one point or another returned to a theme to cater to a new audience/give fans of the previous line something new from it. Not even just for entire themes, but sublines within themes can return, how many times has City revisited police, fire, or construction? Just because Bionicle had such a long run and is part of constraction, doesn't mean some of that mindset could be applied here.

There's a huge difference : Bionicle is based on characters, while the themes you quote are based on vehicles or locations. Though, I'd like it if Bionicle were to come back every 4 or 5 years, if they don't reboot it each time. We could have two or three years story arcs each time. Basically, likthe story we know, but instead of making it run for ten years, make some pauses.

[ATBro]

To all you people doing it, please stop dissing Hero Factory. No, not a lot of people like it. No, not a lot of people will miss it. But this is what i've grown up with, and I am not happy with people calling it out for its flaws, and not praising it for what it did well. You made memories with bionicle? Thats what you grew up with? Well thats HF for me, and I will be sad to see it go

[Aanchir]

It's this in particular that doesn't leave me hopeful for much in terms of multimedia. Hero Factory proved that the appetite for the sets is there, but not a lot of the extraneous efforts. The books were a bust, the comic series fizzled out almost as quickly as it started, and the only reason we have a TV special this year is because ADVANCE got jazzed about the mech aspect.

If they're synergizing any past lessons, we likely won't see much. The sets have always filled the right niche, and I'm sure will see bits and pieces of transmedia for support, but one of the (several) contributing factors to BIONICLE getting the axe in the past was the lack of commercial support from the target audience, because the story was inaccessible.

I guess a lot of it boils down to: why BIONICLE? Why this name, as opposed to a new theme? Clearly they must be going for some amount of brand-recognition, but that will only carry them so far. Just repeating their past methods is a recipe for a quick cancellation.

(that is, assuming this apparent return isn't a one-off anyway!)

I think assuming we'll see thin media support just because of Hero Factory is a mistake. After all, if you applied the same logic to System sets, then LEGO City's amazing success would have precluded future story-driven System themes — clearly, people want sets, not story! But instead, Ninjago came out with a huge multimedia presence and managed to surpass BIONICLE in many respects.

There is room in the LEGO Group's portfolio for both story-intensive themes and less story-intensive ones. I hardly think they would have made the decision to bring back what has always been a story-intensive theme if they thought such themes were doomed to failure.

Also, I don't see how "just repeating their past methods is a recipe for a quick cancellation". BIONICLE's past methods served it well for many years — running for nine years before finally being retired does not meet my definition of a "quick cancellation".

Obviously, the LEGO Group will want to avoid some of the old BIONICLE's mistakes with this new attempt, but frankly there's no reason to think they'll have to completely change the theme's entire approach to story media just to avoid those mistakes. Themes like LEGO Ninjago have taken lots of inspiration from BIONICLE in terms of their marketing and storytelling, and have met with amazing success as a result. I see no reason why a new take on BIONICLE can't do the same.

Edited August 9, 2014 by Aanchir

[GK733]

To all you people doing it, please stop dissing Hero Factory. No, not a lot of people like it. No, not a lot of people will miss it. But this is what i've grown up with, and I am not happy with people calling it out for its flaws, and not praising it for what it did well. You made memories with bionicle? Thats what you grew up with? Well thats HF for me, and I will be sad to see it go

Are you sure you belong to EB? It has it's own strict rules that people should follow, even though I don't like them that much either in some cases.

Enough offtopic... or not. I saw a random post on BZP saying something that a BLU-RAY version of Web of Shadows was listed for an October release this year... if this weak rumour is true then why would they re-release all the movies? Especially if it is reboot. It wouldn't make sense. In general, Bionicle is still stuck deep in the media lego produced. It would be troubling moment for some kid to find Biosector01 and all the movies there was because it would just make them very confused, especially if they couldn't relate it to the new Bionicle.

[Aanchir]

Are you sure you belong to EB? It has it's own strict rules that people should follow, even though I don't like them that much either in some cases.

Enough offtopic... or not. I saw a random post on BZP saying something that a BLU-RAY version of Web of Shadows was listed for an October release this year... if this weak rumour is true then why would they re-release all the movies? Especially if it is reboot. It wouldn't make sense. In general, Bionicle is still stuck deep in the media lego produced. It would be troubling moment for some kid to find Biosector01 and all the movies there was because it would just make them very confused, especially if they couldn't relate it to the new Bionicle.

If the companies who own the rights to the BIONICLE movies decide they want to publish them again I doubt the LEGO Group would have any reason to stop them. I recently saw BIONICLE: The Legend Reborn and LEGO: The Adventures of Clutch Powers being sold as a double-feature, probably to cash in on hype from the LEGO Movie. For that matter, you still see plenty of horrible My Little Pony movies being republished despite having no connection to the current My Little Pony series that has done so much to rejuvenate and redeem the brand.

I don't think that older BIONICLE stories would necessarily be any more problem for the LEGO Group than older Transformers, My Little Pony, and G.I. Joe stories are for Hasbro. But the LEGO Group won't be deciding to republish older BIONICLE media of their own accord. That decision is in the hands of the distributors who happen to have the rights to that media. And as long as the LEGO Group is still getting royalties from it I doubt they'll raise a stink about it.

[TwistLaw]

BIONICLE was launched in the US in summer 2001, and according to TLG employees, the US was far and away the largest market for BIONICLE sets and media, so I don't think comparing the theme's soft launch in Europe with the hard launch of HF world-wide entirely accurate.

Sure, but I was just making a precise comparison between the launch dates of the two lines.

I mean, by summer 2001 BIONICLE sure had already cashed in some money.

Edited August 9, 2014 by TwistLaw

[Timeline15]

I always cringe when I see old movies republished like that, particularly with MLP, as its essentially a sub-par old show trying to cash in on its much more successful successor.

With Bionicle,however, it seems encouraging that this is happening. The sheer fact that Bionicle's return might be generating enough excitement that companies are dusting off the old movies pleases me.

[Dorek]

After all, if you applied the same logic to System sets, then LEGO City's amazing success would have precluded future story-driven System themes — clearly, people want sets, not story! But instead, Ninjago came out with a huge multimedia presence and managed to surpass BIONICLE in many respects.

System and Technic (constraction, etc) are very different beasts in that regard. Chima has an enormous multimedia push, but that couldn't save the constraction sets (which have a very direct tie-in to the system line itself!) from not being released in NA.

It's not that the appetite isn't there, necessarily, it's just that the multimedia aspects don't correlate (or causate) very well with sales; one thing Greg always mentioned (and continues to do so) is that people invested in the BIONICLE story were not the ones buying the sets, and if the failed attempts of Hero Factory reaching at grander story and mythos are anything to go by, that hasn't changed too much.

Also, I don't see how "just repeating their past methods is a recipe for a quick cancellation". BIONICLE's past methods served it well for many years — running for nine years before finally being retired does not meet my definition of a "quick cancellation".

Obviously, the LEGO Group will want to avoid some of the old BIONICLE's mistakes with this new attempt, but frankly there's no reason to think they'll have to completely change the theme's entire approach to story media just to avoid those mistakes. Themes like LEGO Ninjago have taken lots of inspiration from BIONICLE in terms of their marketing and storytelling, and have met with amazing success as a result. I see no reason why a new take on BIONICLE can't do the same.

It's a different market at a different time; as you say, BIONICLE would no longer be a trailblazer in any respect, and the desires for story-driven themes can already be satisfied. There's easily room for BIONICLE, and there's no way we won't see any multimedia push, but for a new line to have any kind of staying power, it is going to need to try something new, since a lot of the old methods either don't work or are used to better effect in different lines.

Personally, I'd like to see a TV series/specials/movie in more 2D animation, like with what Mixels is doing, as opposed to the "standard" 3D we see from most of their other lines; that could be a cool way to distinguish it.

[Transparency for Effect]

It's a different market at a different time; as you say, BIONICLE would no longer be a trailblazer in any respect, and the desires for story-driven themes can already be satisfied. There's easily room for BIONICLE, and there's no way we won't see any multimedia push, but for a new line to have any kind of staying power, it is going to need to try something new, since a lot of the old methods either don't work or are used to better effect in different lines.

Personally, I'd like to see a TV series/specials/movie in more 2D animation, like with what Mixels is doing, as opposed to the "standard" 3D we see from most of their other lines; that could be a cool way to distinguish it.

Sure, but seeing something like Ghost's animations makes you wish for at least some shorts done by them.

[Chro]

But it's unclear whether the LEGO Group would want to make BIONICLE's launch too huge, necessarily. The first wave is thirteen sets as far as we know. This is big, but not necessarily what you'd expect of a "big bang" theme like Ninjago (which launched with 16 sets, including two store exclusives) or Chima (which launched with 16 sets, including three store exclusives). If there are any store-exclusive BIONICLE sets that we don't know about yet, then that might boost its numbers.

Interesting point. The display stand pictured in the leaks could easily be a generic all-stores type thing, meaning it would be possible for store exclusives (not pictured on the display stands) to exist as well.

[Kingslayer]

are very different beasts in that regard

Please tell me thats a reference.

Also as for what Chro said, store exclusives would be cool. Although if there are I hope they would be bad guys. We dont seem to have much this wave. It also may mean we might get a few more sets in wave 2 if we are lucky

[toatali]

Also as for what Chro said, store exclusives would be cool. Although if there are I hope they would be bad guys. We dont seem to have much this wave. It also may mean we might get a few more sets in wave 2 if we are lucky

In 2001, the only villains were the Rahi, which the Skull/mask spiders seem to be replacing here. Wave 2 could potentially feature some sort of Bohrok replacement, meaning we're returning to pre-2008 set releases, with the Toa in one wave, and the villains in the next wave.

[Kalhiki]

Considering there are smaller Skull Spiders in every set, we actually have more villains than heroes this wave. A bit underwhelming, and no, they're not villain sets, but still.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a single-story wave, and the next wave will have its own story (like what HF did in its earlier years). Preferably with an overarching story, though.

[I AM THE DUCK MAN]

Considering there are smaller Skull Spiders in every set, we actually have more villains than heroes this wave. A bit underwhelming, and no, they're not villain sets, but still.

Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a single-story wave, and the next wave will have its own story (like what HF did in its earlier years). Preferably with an overarching story, though.

Technically, Bionicle did that in 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006 and to some degree 08 09 and '10

Edited August 10, 2014 by I AM THE DUCK MAN

[Shakar]

I think the Skull Spiders and their Lord are going to be "starter" baddies to (re)introduce the theme. They're probably going to be revealed as the minions of the main villain so the main story can kickstart in Summer.

[Voxovan]

I think the Skull Spiders and their Lord are going to be "starter" baddies to (re)introduce the theme. They're probably going to be revealed as the minions of the main villain so the main story can kickstart in Summer.

You're probably right, we still have that mysterious pair of red glowing eyes in the backround of the display image, and they don't look like LOSS's eyes.

[TwistLaw]

I think the Skull Spiders and their Lord are going to be "starter" baddies to (re)introduce the theme. They're probably going to be revealed as the minions of the main villain so the main story can kickstart in Summer.

Thanks Shakar, you just spoiled us the plot

Seriously, I think we have a really high percentage the story is taking this path, at least in its first year.

[Kalhiki]

So... Basically following the 2001-2003 plotline? Rahi, Bohrok, Rahkshi all servants. Then reveal Makuta?

Here's a thought. It'd be cool if they release a character as a good guy, but later reveal that he's the main villain. So for the first few waves/years it'll be a whole deal of "WHO IS THE MYSTERY BADDIE???" Kinda like the whole "Who is the seventh Toa?" deal in 2003.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Kalhiki

[Mesonak]

So... Basically following the 2001-2003 plotline? Rahi, Bohrok, Rahkshi all servants. Then reveal Makuta?

Here's a thought. It'd be cool if they release a character as a good guy, but later reveal that he's the main villain. So for the first few waves/years it'll be a whole deal of "WHO IS THE MYSTERY BADDIE???" Kinda like the whole "Who is the seventh Toa?" deal in 2003.

Pretty much, yeah. Lego seems to love having creatures act as the villains and then showcase the person controlling them (RIP in Peace Brain Mastermind), so I fully expect that's a trend they'll carry forth with BIONICLE 2.0.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Somebody working behind the scenes, pulling the strings, but nobody ever really knows who it is. I'm skeptical of Lego's ability to actually pull off something like that, but I'm all for including a few betrayals and people with secretive agendas in the story. It'd certainly spice things up a bit.

-Mesonak

Edited August 10, 2014 by Mesonak