Clone 01354 Productions Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 ^True; practically every build from Inika onwards was the same, which is why I think that many people fell out of collecting it. At that point, we finally reached that time of making "unique" pieces that had the same functions as 20 others, but looked different. It was the same build, just different add-ons and colors; and you know what? That is exactly what CCBS is: same build, different add ons. At least in 2001-2005, the builds were just completely the same with just different colors, masks, and weapons; they didn't try so hard to create unique feels for each character, they aimed for unity. And that is why I like clone sets: they are all the same, like every other build, but at least they admit it. Quote
TheGreatSpirit Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 And that is why I like clone sets: they are all the same, like every other build, but at least they admit it. So, by promoting kids to "get them all", they are admitting they are all the same sets? I highly doubt this. Quote
Aethersprite Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) ^True; practically every build from Inika onwards was the same, which is why I think that many people fell out of collecting it. At that point, we finally reached that time of making "unique" pieces that had the same functions as 20 others, but looked different. It was the same build, just different add-ons and colors; and you know what? That is exactly what CCBS is: same build, different add ons. At least in 2001-2005, the builds were just completely the same with just different colors, masks, and weapons; they didn't try so hard to create unique feels for each character, they aimed for unity. And that is why I like clone sets: they are all the same, like every other build, but at least they admit it. Um, no. The CCBS allows for a much larger variety of different, unique builds. It's just that Lego hasn't been using it to the system's full potential by constantly giving us humanoid builds. Saying it's exactly like the Inika build is a massive injustice. If anything, the fact that the sets were so alike one another pre-Inika was actually one of the bad things I remembered about Bionicle as a child: My parents used to comment, "they're all the same, you already have that!" As a result I hardly ever owned more than a single member of each team/line. It was frustrating. Edited September 5, 2014 by Lockon Stratos Quote
Chimaninja454 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 So, by promoting kids to "get them all", they are admitting they are all the same sets? I highly doubt this. Hahahaha. I'm getting hoped now :P Quote
Logan McOwen Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Um, no. The CCBS allows for a much larger variety of different, unique builds. It's just that Lego hasn't been using it to the system's full potential by constantly giving us humanoid builds. Saying it's exactly like the Inika build is a massive injustice. If anything, the fact that the sets were so alike one another pre-Inika was actually one of the bad things I remembered about Bionicle as a child: My parents used to comment, "they're all the same, you already have that!" As a result I hardly ever owned more than a single member of each team/line. It was frustrating. This. This this this. I mean, just look at the Heroes of the Breakout and Brain Attack waves. Look at the Battle Machines in IFB. Look at the Chima ultrabuilds. Samey? I think not. Quote
Kalhiki Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Little late on the conversation, but might as well: Not sure who my favorite Defender is. The Earth and Water seem most intriguing to me. I'm curious to see what kind of weapon the Water Defender has, and the Earth Defender seems to have wider shoulders and (best of all) a Black Phantom Mace in what appears to be purple (hopefully Trans?). And I'll probably be pleased with the Ice Defender since he comes with a saw (my favorite Lego piece) in trans light blue. Quote
Clone 01354 Productions Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Um, no. The CCBS allows for a much larger variety of different, unique builds. It's just that Lego hasn't been using it to the system's full potential by constantly giving us humanoid builds. Saying it's exactly like the Inika build is a massive injustice. If anything, the fact that the sets were so alike one another pre-Inika was actually one of the bad things I remembered about Bionicle as a child: My parents used to comment, "they're all the same, you already have that!" As a result I hardly ever owned more than a single member of each team/line. It was frustrating. Well, that was my point: they use CCBS like they use the Inika build (unitl recently). At least the Glatorian all had unique builds: Straak had the inverted torso, Tarix had a unique torso design, Skrall had the hunched shoulders, etc. But what about Hero Factory 2.0? Or 3.0? Remember those? Those were the designs that got me out of HF, because while I love clone sets, these just had bad designs. To that second part: I know, me too......I (had) two Rahkshi, two Bohrok, one Nuva, one Metru, and one Vahki. Imagine how I played with these 7 toys, because they didn't want to buy me Matau or a few more Bohrok: it was basically "Vakama and Lewa fight two Rahkshi, two Bohrok, and a Vahki!!!! (Which was, like, a 10 minute fight for the Toa.) Even with Inika, I was only allowed two, and two Piraka. Edited September 5, 2014 by LN-01354 Quote
Leewan Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 But what about Hero Factory 2.0? Or 3.0? Remember those? Those were the designs that got me out of HF, because while I love clone sets, these just had bad designs. 2011 was the first year we had CCBS, it's kinda normal that there weren't as many original and "advanced" designs as 2013 or 2014. As you point out, there were more creative designs in 2009 because it was the fourth year of the "Inika system", it was expanding, and we started to get something different of a basic Toa Inika. Quote
Jetrax99 Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 My parents had nothing against buying me "clone" sets. I got all original Toa and Turaga for Christmas 2001. I also got several of the Toa Nuva in 02. At the time the Inika came out, I had nearly all the Piraka except Reidak, and Jaller and Hahli. After that, I started buying sets myself. Quote
---Vertea--- Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 If Bionicle does good with it's rerelease (and I have little reason to think it won't), I wonder if the ball joint system might evolve to something a little more customizable. What I found the most exciting about the early era Bionicle was that each set had this cool mechanical function that you had the pleasure of building yourself. You kind of learned the inner workings of a creature or character, and when you played with them, there was this kind of magical awe that came from seeing all these gears and rubber bands and pins working together to make a thing happen. Of course, the majority of the theme, and Constraction themes after, has had more of a focus on posability than play function, which is great and all, but I would like to see a kind of blend of the Ball joint system and some kind of mechanical function that isn't some kind of launcher. I think it's a more rewarding experience to build a model that works in an interactive way. A posable model has plenty of merit, sure; It's aesthetically pleasing, dynamic, and an excellent reference for the enterprising artist... But the playtime you have with these figures is so much more exciting when the figures lunge to attack or knock a life-giving element off one another. It's pure magic. Tl;dr- I want to see a hybrid of balljoint pose-ability and Technic functions in the future. Because fun.(and also probably an unhealthy amount of nostalgia) Quote
Aanchir Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Well, that was my point: they use CCBS like they use the Inika build (unitl recently). At least the Glatorian all had unique builds: Straak had the inverted torso, Tarix had a unique torso design, Skrall had the hunched shoulders, etc. But what about Hero Factory 2.0? Or 3.0? Remember those? Those were the designs that got me out of HF, because while I love clone sets, these just had bad designs. I don't understand at all why you think those designs were bad (perhaps you could clarify), but it's unfair to hold $8 sets like the Hero Factory 2.0 and 3.0 heroes to the same standard as $13 sets like the Glatorian. The reason they were near-clones is the same reason why sets like the Toa Metru were near-clones: to establish a sense of unity. The heroes were not the ONLY sets in 2011, and the mid-size villains (which actually WERE $13 sets like the Glatorian) showed a much more meaningful level of diversity. I'll admit the Fire Villains were rather awkward and inelegant, but they still attempted to innovate in their own way, such as the reinforced right arm on Drilldozer (oddly, omitted from the set's official images), the wings on Jetbug, and the reinforced left arm on Nitroblast. Meanwhile, the Savage Planet villains were very diverse. Waspix was the plainest, using an extra leg joint, wings, an extra set of arms, and a tail for an insect-like design much like Gorast from 2008. Raw-Jaw brilliantly combined elephant-like and gorilla-like features and proportions, and featured both an articulated jaw and a creatively-armored torso. Fangz used smaller shells creatively for a hyena-like arched back, and was also a quadruped, unlike any previous $13 set. Meanwhile, the variety of sets that use the CCBS has increased greatly since 2011 — calling it the "same build with different add-ons" is completely off-base. The heroes tend to be generic humanoid characters, so of course they tend to have generic humanoid builds, but the amount of complexity and diversity in their "add-ons" increased greatly in 2012 and 2013 (just look at Evo's tank arm, Stringer's sonic cannon, Bulk's high-impact shoulder armor and missile launcher, or Stormer's sword, ice shield, and missile launcher). And the villains of 2012 and 2013 demonstrated amazingly creative designs — just compare Toxic Reapa, Jawblade, Thornraxx, XT4, Bruizer, and Frost Beast. Same build with different add-ons? Not by a longshot. And of course, with the latest Invasion from Below series, nobody with half a brain would insist that they're all "the same build with different add-ons".Stormer Freeze Machine and Rocka Stealth Machine are the only two machine sets that are CLOSE to being generic humanoid designs. And while the beasts are strangely more humanoid and generic in their designs, there are still two — Tunneler Beast and Queen Beast — whose builds are not only completely unlike the other beasts, but also completely unlike any other sets ever built from the CCBS. Quote
Lord-Vorahk Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 The gear system might work, but I think kids would probably be disappointed if they got a toy with a floppy arm. As was said earlier up the thread, the gears were there to facilitate the mask-knocking-off-game. Once the change was made to using axles instead of studs to keep the masks on, the gears became obsolete at best, a hinderance at worst. As I said, I found the gears detrimental to playing. The Bohrok couldn't hold a pose while I put one to reposition someone else. The 04 Matoran, Rahkshi and Vahki were really floppy. The Toa looked less like they were fighting and more like they were swatting at invisible moths, and that's not mentioning the fact that they were useless on Vakama and Whenua, who didn't use swinging weapons Quote
Shakar Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Excellent post Aanchir. I'm still amazed that the CCBS gets these accusations after nearly 5 years it debuted. While analyzing Lewa's mask, I noticed something that might be interesting. Check the masks that feature decorative slits, like the Hau, the Miru or the Akaku. The slits aren't coloured like on a Glatorian head, they're black (while the eyes glow). It's a bit hard to see on Kopaka, but just look at the big Tahu on top or Lewa. Now, Lego loves to give pretty much every set glowing eyes in promo art, even when their actual eye parts (in toy form) aren't trasparent, so you might think they made the eye part of every Toa glowy and blackened the other parts of their head. But they didn't with Stringer's helmet (which has two slits under the eyes, just like the Miru), they just made the eyes glowy while the head colour underneath can be still seen. Could this hint at a head similar to the Mata and Metru ones? Quote
arc Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Could this hint at a head similar to the Mata and Metru ones? I hope so, I always liked the swappable eyes rather then the whole thing being trans. Quote
Kalhiki Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I kinda hope they use the BA heads. I felt they were underused (only appearing for that year's sets as far as I recall). Plus, new colors of that piece would be great. As for CCBS, I feel my biggest issue is that it isn't as intricate as Bionicle's parts. I find it difficult to make really small or detailed MoCs by only using CCBS. Plus, a lot of the pieces only have ball and socket connection points, so there's not much variety there. This isn't to say it's bad by any means (maybe I'm just not skilled at it?), but I find Bionicle pieces are a lot more interesting to build with. Blending the two systems, though. Now that's fun. I'm not sad Bionicle uses CCBS, but I hope they put their all into these figures and show how great the building system can be. Quote
Aanchir Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Even if functions were to come back, I don't know if they'd be in the form of gears. I honestly think a lever/switch that you can push with your thumb, kind of like the ones on the back of the Turaga or Tarakava, would be simpler and more effective. I know the lever for Bruizer's swinging arm function was not the most elegant in its design, but that doesn't mean that there is no good way to integrate a function like that with the CCBS. Gear functions are not the most efficient in terms of space. And the gear functions of most BIONICLE canister sets (Toa Mata, Toa Nuva, Toa Metru, Toa Hordika, etc.) didn't have a whole lot of justification — since the rotational input was identical to the rotational output, they might as well have just used levers. In fact, if you were particularly clever about how you worked the levers into the design, you could even control the two arms move independently like in the case of the Tarakava, rather than having either just a single moving arm or two moving arms linked to the same control point. As for CCBS, I feel my biggest issue is that it isn't as intricate as Bionicle's parts. I find it difficult to make really small or detailed MoCs by only using CCBS. Plus, a lot of the pieces only have ball and socket connection points, so there's not much variety there. This isn't to say it's bad by any means (maybe I'm just not skilled at it?), but I find Bionicle pieces are a lot more interesting to build with. Considering that a lot of the small figures in the early years of BIONICLE were built mostly from Technic (not BIONICLE) parts anyway, and the Technic parts palette hasn't changed a tremendous amount since then, building smaller figures like that with current parts would not be out of the question. They just wouldn't necessarily have the same articulation as larger figures. Also, smaller CCBS models are totally possible! I built this Matoran as a hypothetical example of what a CCBS Matoran roughly the same size and piece count as a 2003 Matoran might look like. He's very slightly taller (about 13.5 modules tall rather than 12 modules tall), but he's just a simple example of what's possible without getting too large and elaborate. Small creature models are also easy to create, like this dog and this hawk, which are 25 and 26 pieces respectively and have more articulation than most Rahi from BIONICLE's first three years. As it is, it looks like the new BIONICLE sets will stick to mostly the same price points as Hero Factory sets, and the Defenders/Protectors/whatever will thus be closer to the height of the 2004 or 2008 Matoran than their 2003 counterparts (though thankfully, not with such pitiful piece counts). But you shouldn't let that discourage you from modding the sets into smaller versions if that better suits your particular tastes. EDIT: I was just trying to sketch out the Defender/Protector of Fire. I had compared its torso build to Toxic Reapa before, but now I'm thinking it's a bit more like Frost Beast in terms of using Glatorian necks as its shoulders. It also appears to have at least 50 parts — perfectly in line with what I would hope for at the $10 price point! It's also shorter and stockier than the rest of the Defenders/Protectors (it appears to lack knees and elbows). Edited September 5, 2014 by Aanchir Quote
Kalhiki Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I have no problem with the sets. Just MoCing, mainly. I remember creating some fish thing out of Bionicle pieces that had overlapping armor plates and a bunch of other stuff all centered around a body that was a rubber tube (the kind from the Zamor Launchers). Things like that just seem impossible with CCBS. After seeing your MoCs, I think the problem is I (and other people) am looking at the building systems entirely wrong. CCBS is an entirely different monster than Bionicle, and I now feel they really shouldn't be compared... They each have their Pros and Cons. Quote
Leewan Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Some news guys. The release date should actually be January. So for the lucky ones who have the luck to get them earlier (which rarely happens here in France, we usually get the sets after the official release date, unlike in the US, hence the previously announced date of February, it was more likely to be a date for the toy shops release), you might get BIONICLE sets for Christmas. I don't know how it will work, but there will still be combos. I'd like to see Kaita-like combos (even if they're not canonically the Toa Kaita, it would be a cool "easter egg" if the official combiners were made of Lewa, Kopaka and Gali and Tahu, Pohatu and Onua). There will be commercials for the Stone Protector and Gali. And maybe for the whole wave / theme, and other characters (I can't imagine there won't be any promotional media that won't focus on Tahu, he's the main character), but these two will definitely have their own TV commercial. My source is the same as before, you can see his original post here, so if you report the news, all credits go to Exo-6 (but you can also credit me ). Edited September 5, 2014 by Leewan Quote
Kingslayer Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) Some news guys. The release date should actually be January. So for the lucky ones who have the luck to get them earlier (which rarely happens here in France, we usually get the sets after the official release date, unlike in the US, hence the previously announced date of February, it was more likely to be a date for the toy shops release), you might get BIONICLE sets for Christmas. I don't know how it will work, but there will still be combos. I'd like to see Kaita-like combos (even if they're not canonically the Toa Kaita, it would be a cool "easter egg" if the official combiners were made of Lewa, Kopaka and Gali and Tahu, Pohatu and Onua). There will be commercials for the Stone Protector and Gali. And maybe for the whole wave / theme, and other characters (I can't imagine there won't be any promotional media that won't focus on Tahu, he's the main character), but these two will definitely have their own TV commercial. My source is the same as before, you can see his original post here, so if you report the news, all credits go to Exo-6 (but you can also credit me ). Hey cool. Combiners. I can see this working a lot better with CCBS seeing as pieces are nearly indestructible. Edited September 5, 2014 by Kingslayer Quote
TheGreatSpirit Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Some news guys. The release date should actually be January. So for the lucky ones who have the luck to get them earlier (which rarely happens here in France, we usually get the sets after the official release date, unlike in the US, hence the previously announced date of February, it was more likely to be a date for the toy shops release), you might get BIONICLE sets for Christmas. I don't know how it will work, but there will still be combos. I'd like to see Kaita-like combos (even if they're not canonically the Toa Kaita, it would be a cool "easter egg" if the official combiners were made of Lewa, Kopaka and Gali and Tahu, Pohatu and Onua). There will be commercials for the Stone Protector and Gali. And maybe for the whole wave / theme, and other characters (I can't imagine there won't be any promotional media that won't focus on Tahu, he's the main character), but these two will definitely have their own TV commercial. My source is the same as before, you can see his original post here, so if you report the news, all credits go to Exo-6 (but you can also credit me ). inb4 dozens of TTV podcasts/videos discussing this Quote
Mesonak Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 inb4 dozens of TTV podcasts/videos discussing this Dozens! Literally dozens! Video (singular) uploading now. :P Quote
Clone 01354 Productions Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 I never got combos; they're just a gross mish-mash of random colors and weapons. I have yet to see one villain in all of Bionicle (except for Umbra.....) who has all random colors and pieces slopped together. They are cool, sometimes, but I just don't get the Bionicle Universe explanation for why one guy has Tahu's Hau for feet, or something like that. Quote
Aanchir Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 (edited) I never got combos; they're just a gross mish-mash of random colors and weapons. I have yet to see one villain in all of Bionicle (except for Umbra.....) who has all random colors and pieces slopped together. They are cool, sometimes, but I just don't get the Bionicle Universe explanation for why one guy has Tahu's Hau for feet, or something like that. You're supposed to use your imagination. Just because a piece was designed as a mask doesn't mean you have to use it as a mask or even a face. That's the point of combi models, really — to point out the different ways you can use the parts of one set together with parts from another. The official story roles are just a bonus. Edited September 5, 2014 by Aanchir Quote
Shakar Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 Combo models could really go anywhere this time, even more than usual. Maybe 2 or 3 Toa combining together, 2 or 3 Defenders (likely 3) into one, Toa getting a weapon/armour boost from their respective Defender..no idea about the LoSS though. Quote
Kingslayer Posted September 5, 2014 Posted September 5, 2014 It would be cool to make super toa by adding their defender to them Quote
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