Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Grima]

Still, a mask with two connection points probably won't be viable for a knocking-off gimmick.

If it hinges, the game could be more about knocking upwards than knocking off.

Honestly, though, we don't know how strong the connection is. The knight's kingdom helmets were hardly firmly attached, though I don't know how easy they were to knock off with another knight's swinging arm.

[Gatanui]

I definitely don't have any of the sets. That would be pretty cool, but I can't imagine review sets being out this early. NYCC is where I'm betting we'll first see finalized sets. That's one of the main reasons I'm going to it!

Wishful thinking combined with ten years of analyzing every detail of a leaked picture possible, coupled with a decade plus of intense MOC building and deconstructing. I don't have any sets yet, and if BZPower had gotten review sets already (which I don't think we have) I wouldn't have any, as I'm no longer an official reviewer, which makes me ineligible for receiving them according to BZP review policy (as you know, but others here might not).

I'd kind of forgotten/not realized you're no longer an official reviewer. That's a bummer because you always take the best pictures and I'd have loved to see some of the first 2015 set reviews from you. Well, I hope we get those sets soon! ^_^ (The wishful thinking part referred to me, by the way, as I think it'd be pretty cool to get pics of the sets so soon)

-Gata

Edited September 24, 2014 by Gatanui

[Chro]

http://www.bzpower.c...o-factorys-end/

I was browsing BZPower for a while and came across the above thread. Like others have said there, it's like what went on in 2010, but in reverse. In the words of Voltex: "I hadn't actually considered the fact that Bionicle is actually replacing the line that originally replaced it..."

But to be honest, I do feel kind of bad for that kid. Have any of you considered that how WE feel about BIONICLE could be the same for many children of this current generation, but for Hero Factory instead? It's sure interesting.

well, the last changeover was a step down in quality whereas this will most likely be a step up, but I can see his point of view (assuming it is a legit post). If HF had existed when I was 10, I probably would have got just as into HF as I did with Bionicle. I was much more forgiving back then, as I'm sure we all were. Hopefully those who grew up with hero factory will learn to love Bionicle too. I like to think that our aversion to HF early on was about more than just "it's not Bonkles!!1!1" , but rather, about the legitimate drop in story depth. It will be interesting to see how this situation plays out in reverse....

EDIT: also just occurred to me that someone who got into HF first, and apparently only in 2013, doesn't seem a likely candidate to join BZP.

Yeah, I would not be surprised in any way if that was a troll account. Doesn't make the question or idea of Bionicle replacing HF any less interesting, though, I suppose.

[Bigger Fish]

http://www.bzpower.c...o-factorys-end/

I was browsing BZPower for a while and came across the above thread. Like others have said there, it's like what went on in 2010, but in reverse. In the words of Voltex: "I hadn't actually considered the fact that Bionicle is actually replacing the line that originally replaced it..."

But to be honest, I do feel kind of bad for that kid. Have any of you considered that how WE feel about BIONICLE could be the same for many children of this current generation, but for Hero Factory instead? It's sure interesting.

That kid's post should be some sort of copy pasta meme or something.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

I'm sure there are plenty of kids like that, who grew up with Hero Factory and will feel bad about it going away. But to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if that topic was just somebody creating a dupe account to troll people and parody the reactions to BIONICLE being cancelled back in 2010. The fact that the member in question seems to have joined just to post that topic, claims to have only gotten into LEGO in 2013 but has a 2011 set as his avatar, and knows the term MOC but not how to spell it all seem to point to somebody putting on an act. Plus, his poor spelling seems suspiciously consistent.

Way to go! I noticed that immediately: the spelling is TOO off, not in a texting or lazy way, not in an I-don't-speak-English-well way, but rather in a joking, almost condescending manner. "i will be verry sad and mad at lego. hero factory had an awasome storys,". Seriously? Some people.....ugh.....

But yeah, that was pretty much how I acted when Bionicle was canceled. I only bought them as toys and had never really collected them or gotten into the storyline until Bara Magna, and then they were like "CANCELED!!" The only full team that I owned was the Glatorian, and their not even a team......

If Bionicle gets re-canceled, i will be verry sad and mad at lego. bionicle has awasome storys.

Edited September 25, 2014 by LN-01354

[Dorek]

#bringbackherofactory

Imagine cycling between Hero Factory and BIONICLE reboots every five years...

[DuckBricks]

Here's to hoping there not printed faces. I could do with the inika and how there masks stuck to the head firmly, but having a flip up mask that reveal a cheesy printed face would ruin the whole thing to me. If there like knights kingdom... *shudder*

I'm hoping they look like the metru or glatorian heads.

And don't forget the Galidor faces....

[Clone 01354 Productions]

#bringbackherofactory

Imagine cycling between Hero Factory and BIONICLE reboots every five years...

That.....would be weird. "Bionicle's canceled; bring it back!" "Now HF's canceled, bring it back!" Until they finally compromise and say "You know what: It's all in the same universe now!!"

And guys, here's a thought: we are still going to have to experience Bionicle's RE-CANCELATION. The first time it was canceled, it was a horrible, horrible time. We are going to do that AGAIN! And what will happen after it is gone; will it be dead for good? Or will they just keep looping......

[Jasonified]

And don't forget the Galidor faces....

what are you talking about?

the galidor faces were masterpieces in a world of hyper-realistic lego.

if the show had been a bit longer, lego would have evolved into a new age of hyoer realism

[DuckBricks]

I think it's more likely to make a difference to people who grew up with BIONICLE, rather than new buyers (or perhaps people who only got into it in 2009/10). We're now conditioned to expect a certain standard from the story, which will in turn affect how we perceive the sets. The brand new target audience is going to be more reminiscent of how our generation was back in 2001; they don't have much to go on, so it will seem remarkably different to them.

I don't think story is necessarily a requirement for enjoyment of the toys, but something that has been a constant in constraction lines is personality. Going all the way back to Slizers, even with that bare-bones plot, the environment and the atmosphere exuded a certain sense of flavor. It may not be to everybody's liking, but I have yet to see a constraction line that didn't have its own identity (Superheroes comes the closest, perhaps because it was a licensed theme, but regardless). And sure, comics/books/etc sold me on the PLOT of BIONICLE, but that was the steak. The presentation is the sizzle.

Personally, I think all of the sets look absolutely fantastic (even Skull Krata and his dopey face), so I'm definitely going to try and get them all.

Anyone think Skull Krana's "Dopey face" looks like one of those new Chima Speedorz Fire v Ice faces...?

[TheGreatSpirit]

That kid's post should be some sort of copy pasta meme or something.

Seems fake to me, man. Would make a great copypasta though.

[TwistLaw]

We've become a community so small that in order to be trolled we need to do that ourselves.

[Lyichir]

Was gonna post this earlier, but then Eurobricks DIED. But now it's back, and I don't know if it's still on topic, but I'm posting it anyway!

Everyone keeps arguing about the connection for the new masks, and I STILL think that the nubs can snap on to 2M Technic cross-axle holes like those on Y-joints. Such a connection would have some serious advantages. It could work on some older heads (Brain Attack, I'm sure would work—Glatorian head sticks out further in the front, so no telling). It could be held in figures' hands (snapping around the Glatorian or Hero Factory hands the same way as a head). It could attach to all sorts of incredibly common parts, unlike the Knight's Kingdom faceplates or even the Beast jaws, all while not having to be jammed in a figure's mouth to attach it. And, as many HAVE speculated, it could conceivably be loose enough to knock off, which would go hand-in-hand with the gear functions of the new sets. At this point if the masks don't attach like I think they do I'll be quite disappointed, since I can't think of any other way that they could possibly be as versatile.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Lyichir

[arc]

I hadn't considered that, it could be really cool that way!

[Grima]

Was gonna post this earlier, but then Eurobricks DIED. But now it's back, and I don't know if it's still on topic, but I'm posting it anyway!

Everyone keeps arguing about the connection for the new masks, and I STILL think that the nubs can snap on to 2M Technic cross-axle holes like those on Y-joints. Such a connection would have some serious advantages. It could work on some older heads (Brain Attack, I'm sure would work—Glatorian head sticks out further in the front, so no telling). It could be held in figures' hands (snapping around the Glatorian or Hero Factory hands the same way as a head). It could attach to all sorts of incredibly common parts, unlike the Knight's Kingdom faceplates or even the Beast jaws, all while not having to be jammed in a figure's mouth to attach it. And, as many HAVE speculated, it could conceivably be loose enough to knock off, which would go hand-in-hand with the gear functions of the new sets. At this point if the masks don't attach like I think they do I'll be quite disappointed, since I can't think of any other way that they could possibly be as versatile.

I can't say i quite understand what would make that more versatile than the old connection, considering:

• it would need to be a looser connection for masks to pop off, and in that case
  
• it would probably swing about freely when attached as you say it can
  
• it can only be attached to a piece with two axle holes opposite each other, as opposed to the old connection which could fit into any axle hole, as long as it was on a narrow-enough piece it wouldn't bump into the mask
  

at this point, the only advantages I could see to the new connection versus the old one is the return of masks knocking off, and the possibility of a face that doesn't revolve around an axle hole. I have no clue how this connection is as amazingly versatile as you're convinced it is.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Grima

[Dorek]

That's assuming it does actually shift up or down; I think what Lyichir is describing is more of a steady attachment, but one that can be removed with enough pressure as opposed to being fixed.

Anyway, assuming Lyi IS right, this can be used with anything that has opposing axle connections, which is not only a lot of things (and I'm sure there's plenty I can't think of but that better MoCists can!), but more versatile than, say, Hero Factory helmets which basically required the head joint.

[Grima]

Hero Factory helmets required the head joint because they wrapped all the way around the head, not because they used an axle connection.

Look at it this way. Compare how an old mask connection can attach to a Y-joint vs. the new one.

An old mask can fit its axle into any of the three holes on a Y joint. The new mask is restricted to just the two on the sides.

Off the top of my head, I can think of four unique ways to attach a Y joint to an old mask. Your mileage may vary by mask, but it seems like a good benchmark.

The new mask has 2 ways it can attach, excluding swinging it at an angle: rightside up, and upside down. Even upside down is basically just rightside up swung over to the other side.

Do you see what I mean? I'm not denying that there will be ways to use this piece. I have no doubt people will find ways to use it, and that it can attach to many pieces.

I just don't see how this mask connection is amazingly versatile, especially compared to the old connection, which had far greater freedom in both number of pieces it could attach to and number of ways it could attach.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Grima

[Mandate]

So what? That's like the people whining and whinging about CCBS back in 2011. Give it time. It's part of the evolution of CCBS and the head system. If you don't like it, either don't buy it or swap the heads for older ones. Simple.

[Mesonak]

So what? That's like the people whining and whinging about CCBS back in 2011. Give it time. It's part of the evolution of CCBS and the head system. If you don't like it, either don't buy it or swap the heads for older ones. Simple.

Finding flaws in certain elements of set design is nothing new, and doesn't really compare to the dislike of an entire system. Inika heads, light-up eyes, the switch to transparent head pieces, helmets... the list goes on. That being said, yes, modifications are always an option. :P

It needs to be understood that a radical shift in design like this, hypothetically done solely for the purpose of returning a game feature to the line, is going to be polarizing. I remember the backlash when 2009 introduced helmets for the first time; that's going to seem like nothing once the community at large realizes this new method of attachment. To be completely honest, I don't blame them. Form vs. function has always been a long-running debate when it comes to technic-based functions like gears as opposed to increased articulation and the like; introducing this change to masks, something rooted deeply in BIONICLE's history, isn't going to be received well by everybody, and that's perfectly okay.

Personally speaking, though, I'm excited for the change; it's going to be a breath of fresh air and I'm very eager to see what the new head design is like. I think that if this new system is approached in the proper way, MoCists will inevitably discover many creative solutions to the problem and adapt accordingly (as the community always has) ESPECIALLY if the theory about the masks attaching to axle holes ends up being true.

Edited September 25, 2014 by Mesonak

[Grima]

So what? That's like the people whining and whinging about CCBS back in 2011. Give it time. It's part of the evolution of CCBS and the head system. If you don't like it, either don't buy it or swap the heads for older ones. Simple.

Saying I'm unsure about this aspect of the set design =/= a kneejerk reaction to an entire building system, though I suppose if it allows you to sweep opinions you dislike under the rug so you no longer have to think critically about your own, more power to you.

[Dorek]

I'm just saying one of the hallmarks of BIONICLE was specialized parts; how you use those parts aside from their intended application is up to your own creative skills. These masks (assuming a theory like Lyi's, perhaps, but regardless) are neither the most versatile or the least versatile of parts we've seen, so I like to think that it's ultimately what you make of it.

A mask system with longevity, really, is all I ask for, like 2004 onward (replaced by the not-quite-as-handy-but-still-reusable Iron Man faces system).

[Logan McOwen]

While it is different how the masks are connected, I'm sure I'll adapt. I just wanna know what heads wear them.

[Shakar]

One suggestion was that only the MoCr (and possibly the Skull Spider) has the clip connection. And the mask would slip over another mask a la the Mask of Time in the LoMN movie.

Seems like a stretch to me, but it would be an interesting turn of events.

Until we get details on how the heads and masks work, that is the theory I'm going to support. It's going to be really weird if all the masks attach via hinges, not just because I'm not fond of the idea (so far). The point is that a number of masks sport obvious dots on the mouth area: the Protectors' mask, Kopaka's, Gali's, Pohatu's, Lewa's (the finalized set of the lot)... those dots don't seem to be very meaningful in terms of design, so why adding them if not for connection purposes?

Also, do we know if the MoCr is going to be in any of these sets? It so far hasn't appeared, so I figure it'll be an Ignika deal where we don't have a physical version until later (not counting Vezon's flip-head). Unless they just haven't included it yet since the pictures we've seen aren't finalized.

I personally hope it'll appear in Summer 2015 or 2016 with the main villain. It could be Makuta, or someone else, I don't care. I wish for a 25-30€ priced set. Putting the MoCr with the main villain would be cool for a "final confrontation" between the Masters and him (her ?), IMO.

I think the MoCr is going to appear in Summer, or maybe even in 2016 (unlinkely IMO). I don't see any set we know of (as far as we know, this is the full line-up) leaving some room for the MoCr to be included, unless LoSS's gold Spider is a stand-in for the Mask, but I doubt that. We might get a store exclusive, but those tend to not feature new moulds (just some spiffy recolours), much less an important one like the mask that happens to be the main focus of the story.

And yeah, I really want to see something around the 30 Euro tag. No vehicles, no monsters, just a big old Titan who towers above most characters. The CCBS has evolved a lot since its biggest build (Witch Doctor) debuted.

And I think the new head is going to be very similar to the 2001-2003 Toa head. They're already making this huge, unprecedented of an effort to stay close to the 2001 designs (the masks, the weapons, the colours..) it just seems natural to me they're going for the classic robotic head look again.

[Mandate]

Saying I'm unsure about this aspect of the set design =/= a kneejerk reaction to an entire building system, though I suppose if it allows you to sweep opinions you dislike under the rug so you no longer have to think critically about your own, more power to you.

Then think critically of your own. CCBS has not finished changing, and the new mask system will change over the years and bring improvements. Likely case scenario, this is just going to be another "fad" like the Inika heads, or the Brain Attack mannequin-heads. I'm not going to give it an expiry date though, if it's successful enough it's going to stay around for a while. This new system does have a lot of potential, though. Given how large the head is they probably will fit inside 2M holes. Do you know what this means? It means we can use it with a hand. A hand (including the 2009/10 hands, and the prior... oven mitts) . As long as there is enough friction, this will have plenty of versatility for MOCing purposes. Yes, it's not going to be like a helmet (which IMO had far more versatility, you could just pop them on a connector), or the old masks. But it's a new variation, and one that I'm looking forward to personally.

This is all assuming it's not going to slip over another mask. If that's the case, any argument against it (EDIT: for it as well) is going to be made null and void unless you really wanted to use it for the normal mask of a character. And even then, it'll probably change like the Kanohi Ignika in 2016 if it's going to ever be featured in sets again.

Edited September 25, 2014 by JayWalker

[Logan McOwen]

I like the idea of the MoCr slipping over the other masks, but I'm not sure how likely that is? I'm gonna take a look at the other set's masks and see if they have anything on their exteriors which could hint to such a function.

Edited September 25, 2014 by LewiMOC