Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Lind Whisperer]

And, after having been busy elsewhere, I finally find out that it's a reboot.

My reaction and thoughts?

I'm going to be saving a lot of money this year.

It's not that it's a bad plot, it's that it's a very one-wave plot. The original Bionicle story was a deep mystery, that could support it over all the years, even for a final pair of waves after it had been revealed. This is very much a one-wave plot. It's a good story, but it's no more Bionicle than Hero Factory was. Sure, they both have masks, and robots(?) named Toa, but Bionicle had an aura to it, a background that interacted with the characters and was as much a part of the story as they were, whereas this is rather flat, to be honest. I know that's going to come off as Gen1ing, but the fact is, it's true. Here are the plots:

Bionicle: There were once six Toa, who washed up on a mysterious island in mysterious canisters. It was their duty to protect the island's inhabitants from the dark one known as the Makuta, until such a time as the Great Spirit would rise again...

2015 Bionicle: There were two brothers who made masks. One was better liked, and because he was jealous, the other broke their promises, and made an evil mask. They killed each other. Now, it's up to you to go out, and collect all of their masks from the toy shelves of your nearest department store!

It's not that it's a bad story, it's that it's a story that's been told over and over again. It has some originality, and by itself, it'd be an okay story. But Bionicle demands a better story than that. This was the franchise that came up with a giant robot having capsules of medicine healing him that contained smaller robots. That's not just something you make up on the spot, that's a brilliant idea that deserved a brilliant telling. Which it got.

2015 is not a bad story, but it isn't really comparable to the old one on any level.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[Nekchir]

Then don't buy them, then.

[SirPuddings]

Why are people so surprised that it's a reboot? A continuation was already unlikely on the face of it.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

People are seriously still thinking this is a soft reboot or continuation? Here's a list of things that point towards HARD REBOOT:

1) Two moons. If it were a continuation, there would be none.

2) Okoto looks like Mata Nui.

3) Number 3 is a bit long: Matoran replaced by Protectors, Makuta, and Toa falling from the heavens. That could potentially mean that the Toa traveled through space to a new planet, but a new planet with Makuta? No.

4) Element changes.

5) PERSONALITY changes.

I don't care what the speculation is: this is a hard reboot.

It's not that it's a bad plot, it's that it's a very one-wave plot. The original Bionicle story was a deep mystery, that could support it over all the years, even for a final pair of waves after it had been revealed. This is very much a one-wave plot. It's a good story, but it's no more Bionicle than Hero Factory was. Sure, they both have masks, and robots(?) named Toa, but Bionicle had an aura to it, a background that interacted with the characters and was as much a part of the story as they were, whereas this is rather flat, to be honest. I know that's going to come off as Gen1ing, but the fact is, it's true. Here are the plots:

Bionicle: There were once six Toa, who washed up on a mysterious island in mysterious canisters. It was their duty to protect the island's inhabitants from the dark one known as the Makuta, until such a time as the Great Spirit would rise again...

2015 Bionicle: There were two brothers who made masks. One was better liked, and because he was jealous, the other broke their promises, and made an evil mask. They killed each other. Now, it's up to you to go out, and collect all of their masks from the toy shelves of your nearest department store!

Yeah, anything can be dumbed down like that. "Makuta didn't like Mata Nui, so he hurt him and made him fall asleep. The Toa tried to wake him up."

And how do you know that their will be no plot twists? Keep in mind that the biggest Bionicle twist ever was revealed around 2007.

People are haters because they just want to be haters. They can't deal with change, or accept something new. Here, you want the repeat of 01-09? Watch the Bionicle Story video, and stay in your little bubble of nostalgia.

[TheGreatSpirit]

I think TTV said its a soft reboot. Something about the Vahi....

Edited October 10, 2014 by TheGreatSpirit

[Dorek]

And, after having been busy elsewhere, I finally find out that it's a reboot.

My reaction and thoughts?

I'm going to be saving a lot of money this year.

It's not that it's a bad plot, it's that it's a very one-wave plot. The original Bionicle story was a deep mystery, that could support it over all the years, even for a final pair of waves after it had been revealed. This is very much a one-wave plot. It's a good story, but it's no more Bionicle than Hero Factory was. Sure, they both have masks, and robots(?) named Toa, but Bionicle had an aura to it, a background that interacted with the characters and was as much a part of the story as they were, whereas this is rather flat, to be honest. I know that's going to come off as Gen1ing, but the fact is, it's true. Here are the plots:

Bionicle: There were once six Toa, who washed up on a mysterious island in mysterious canisters. It was their duty to protect the island's inhabitants from the dark one known as the Makuta, until such a time as the Great Spirit would rise again...

2015 Bionicle: There were two brothers who made masks. One was better liked, and because he was jealous, the other broke their promises, and made an evil mask. They killed each other. Now, it's up to you to go out, and collect all of their masks from the toy shelves of your nearest department store!

It's not that it's a bad story, it's that it's a story that's been told over and over again. It has some originality, and by itself, it'd be an okay story. But Bionicle demands a better story than that. This was the franchise that came up with a giant robot having capsules of medicine healing him that contained smaller robots. That's not just something you make up on the spot, that's a brilliant idea that deserved a brilliant telling. Which it got.

2015 is not a bad story, but it isn't really comparable to the old one on any level.

Well, the jury is apparently still out on it being a reboot (I'm going to treat it as one until we get some confirmation), but I fail to see how the barebones fragments we've been presented with are anything less than what we got in 2001. It's not like they can telegraph a major plot twist ahead of time, so... seems a bit unfair to judge a day's worth of prelease information against the entirety of ten years of a story.

[GK733]

Read this: http://ttvpodcast.co...e-2015-part-one

TTV:

• The original Toa awaken without any memory and have forgotten that they are heroes.
  
• The reboot was compared to the “Star Trek movies” reboot, where there is a connection to the old universe.
  
• There is a Temple of Time on Okoto.
  
• There are hints that the original Kanohi Vahi from the Mataverse is only half a mask. More hints were also given towards it being involved with time travel. It could possibly leave the original universe open to continuation and the other half being formed in the Nuvaverse.
  

Now you are free to speculate whetever it has any connection more than it's just a different universe.

Edited October 10, 2014 by GK733

[Kalhiki]

Well, the jury is apparently still out on it being a reboot (I'm going to treat it as one until we get some confirmation), but I fail to see how the barebones fragments we've been presented with are anything less than what we got in 2001. It's not like they can telegraph a major plot twist ahead of time, so... seems a bit unfair to judge a day's worth of prelease information against the entirety of ten years of a story.

This. Even with the reveal, it's still too early to tell what direction the story will take. Heck, even though we know the Toa, we don't know who they are in this story. Where did they come from, who made them, etc.? And how much damage did the Mask of Ultimate Power do? Okoto seems to be in ruins after it was used. There's still mystery in this story.

Personally, I like what I see already, so I'm all aboard.

[just2good]

As someone who hasn't been into Constraction since 2003 (well, except for Invasion From Below), I have to say, I'm REALLY digging this new wave of Bionicle. I wish Tahu's mask was a little more rounder like his first release, but I think I'll be getting him and Kopaka for sure. Both were favorites from when I was younger in 2001.

[SirPuddings]

I think TTV said its a soft reboot. Something about the Vahi....

I have serious doubts that a cloud is indicative of a soft reboot. It was more than likely a little homage for the old fans.

[Loki]

I think TTV said its a soft reboot. Something about the Vahi....

There's a Vahi shaped cloud in the sky in the animation. For all anyone knows, it's simply a homage to the old series. Maybe it's some sort of foreshadowing, but I personally doubt that it is unless they plan to reintroduce that specific mask again into the new story.

I don't see any official confirmation, or sources, saying it's a "soft" reboot (granted we technically had what Lego considers a "soft reboot" in 2009 and it didn't pan out). Considering Makuta is effectively a completely different character with a different origin story that mimics aspect of his original one, I'm doubtful there will be overlap with the previous story (especially when that overlap would only over-complicate things and likely turn off a lot of potential new fans).

- Origin story as in with his relation to the origins of the plot, not how he came to exist.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Loki

[Quisoves Pugnat]

2015 Bionicle: There were two brothers who made masks. One was better liked, and because he was jealous, the other broke their promises, and made an evil mask. They killed each other. Now, it's up to you to go out, and collect all of their masks from the toy shelves of your nearest department store!

It's not that it's a bad story, it's that it's a story that's been told over and over again. It has some originality, and by itself, it'd be an okay story. But Bionicle demands a better story than that. This was the franchise that came up with a giant robot having capsules of medicine healing him that contained smaller robots. That's not just something you make up on the spot, that's a brilliant idea that deserved a brilliant telling. Which it got.

2015 is not a bad story, but it isn't really comparable to the old one on any level.

Really?

As of 2001, all we knew was that in the "before-time," the Great Spirit Mata Nui descended from the heavens, bringing with him the Matoran, before being struck down by his jealous brother, Makuta. The six mysterious Toa had to defeat him. It was up to them to go collect masks (decidedly collectables, what with their seventy-two+ variations and their supplemental packs.) The two stories seem quite similar, actually. For Mata Nui you've got Ekimu. For Makuta the Eldritch terror you've got Makuta the mask-maker. For Mata Nui's slumber you've got Ekimu's and Makuta's. You've got an island. You've got Toa. You've got mask-collecting, You've got villagers. You've got beasts as enemies. You've got the legendary mask macguffins (ala the Vahi, Avohkii, and the Ignika.)

So far there's been no mention of a slumbering robot titan or some such thing, but then, there was no obvious mention of one in 2001, either. For all we know, the new BIONICLE could have a story arc which will blow the Mata Nui one out of the water.

Edited October 10, 2014 by Quisoves Pugnat

[Chro]

https://pbs.twimg.co...GycIMAA5Lrg.jpg Backshot of LOSS

https://pbs.twimg.co...MrXIAAARfNO.jpg It's kinda interesting fact that there's two of them in the same display.

I guess it confirms the theory that LOSS is just another type of Skull Spider, not a specific character.

It occurs to me I haven't seen a super clear shot of the heads, someone mind linking the best picture we have?

How about this?

[Lind Whisperer]

• The reboot was compared to the “Star Trek movies” reboot, where there is a connection to the old universe.
  

The Star Trek reboot was actually a restart. Through a never-really-explained-in-enough-detail-to-really-make-sense-and-we're-talking-Star-Trek-sense-not-normal-sense plot hole "twist", an evil space alien completely restarts the timeline. Or something.

Also, giant black holes are totally nothing to be worried about.

[Mr. Gundam]

Well, the jury is apparently still out on it being a reboot (I'm going to treat it as one until we get some confirmation), but I fail to see how the barebones fragments we've been presented with are anything less than what we got in 2001. It's not like they can telegraph a major plot twist ahead of time, so... seems a bit unfair to judge a day's worth of prelease information against the entirety of ten years of a story.

THANK YOU Dorek,

Why are some of us disappointed that this bionicle is going in a new direction? Its not like LEGO is ignoring all of the fans from the first series, sound like they are really thankful of this fanbase.

I'm really happy we cant predict what next year story going to be. And since I'm older, this time I'll have more fun learning the story instead only worrying about the toys when I was a kid.

[Lind Whisperer]

Really?

As of 2001, all we knew was that in the "before-time," the Great Spirit Mata Nui descended from the heavens, bringing with him the Matoran, before being struck down by his jealous brother, Makuta. The six mysterious Toa had to defeat him. It was up to them to go collect masks (decidedly collectables, what with their seventy-two+ variations and their supplemental packs.) The two stories seem quite similar, actually. For Mata Nui you've got Anaku (sp?). For Makuta the Eldritch terror you've got Makuta the mask-maker. For Mata Nui's slumber you've got Anaku's and Makuta's. You've got an island. You've got Toa. You've got mask-collecting, You've got villagers. You've got beasts as enemies. You've got the legendary mask macguffins (ala the Vahi, Avohkii, and the Ignika.)

So far there's been no mention of a slumbering robot titan or some such thing, but then, there was no obvious mention of one in 2001, either. For all we know, the new BIONICLE could have a story arc which will blow the Mata Nui one out of the water.

That is a good point, but in the original, Mata Nui was treated as more of a god-figure. He might have existed, or he might not have. In this one, we know from the beginning that they existed(we see them lying dead(?) in a crater), and it loses a lot of any potential mystery feeling it might otherwise have.

[Kalhiki]

Read this: http://ttvpodcast.co...e-2015-part-one

TTV:

• The original Toa awaken without any memory and have forgotten that they are heroes.
  
• The reboot was compared to the “Star Trek movies” reboot, where there is a connection to the old universe.
  
• There is a Temple of Time on Okoto.
  
• There are hints that the original Kanohi Vahi from the Mataverse is only half a mask. More hints were also given towards it being involved with time travel. It could possibly leave the original universe open to continuation and the other half being formed in the Nuvaverse.
  

Now you are free to speculate whetever it has any connection more than it's just a different universe.

I have mixed feelings. Cool that they may be tying in the old story. But I don't want more than a reference. And I certainly don't want the Toa in the Nuvaverse (we'll roll with those names) to be the same as in the Mataverse. Nothing was said about that, but considering they wake up not knowing who they are? Seems like they could be time travelers with amnesia. What would be cool is if they learn to act as a team by discovering some ancient depiction of the Mataverse Toa. Maybe the Nuvaverse Toa are time clones or something created due to a mishap with the Vahi.

On the other hand, I still want this to be a separate entity. I like where it's going, and I don't want it muddied by Bionicle's awesome-yet-convoluted story.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

The Vahi cloud just struck me as a joke. TTV said something about Time Trap being mentioned, can anyone elaborate on that?

[Clone 01354 Productions]

That is a good point, but in the original, Mata Nui was treated as more of a god-figure. He might have existed, or he might not have.

I am 100% sure that Lego wouldn't have gone and said to kids "Yeah, Mata Nui (God, as you said) is fake. He doesn't exist. The Matoran worshiped a lie!"

The only real twist that Bionicle brought on was the HUGE ROBOT. It was never "Oh, is religion real?". And really, this makes it better: two normal people. But they are just exceptionally skilled; maybe THEY created the Protectors.

Which brings on another point: it was reported that the Protectors are leaders of the tribes. Could the tribes themselves still be Matoran?!?

[GK733]

THANK YOU Dorek,

Why are some of us disappointed that this bionicle is going in a new direction? Its not like LEGO is ignoring all of the fans from the first series, sound like they are really thankful of this fanbase.

I'm really happy we cant predict what next year story going to be. And since I'm older, this time I'll have more fun learning the story instead only worrying about the toys when I was a kid.

I'm not mad about but I was mad about it and will be interested to see where story goes. A connection to he old universe is what I asked for and I would be okay without it. The "evidence" TTV have gathered hovewer indicates a connection through time. They might have mistaken it, or not. I don't think they just saw the vahi cloud and thought it to be a temple. There was asking panel an such. They have directly asked this information from the story team. It's not just some wind-up information.

[Quisoves Pugnat]

That is a good point, but in the original, Mata Nui was treated as more of a god-figure. He might have existed, or he might not have. In this one, we know from the beginning that they existed(we see them lying dead(?) in a crater), and it loses a lot of any potential mystery feeling it might otherwise have.

Granted, we never knew for certain if the Turaga's tale was true, but in a meta sense, we knew that there was a Mata Nui. Why else would the plot have been so devoted to him? If the Toa had been trying to awaken a myth, the story would have lost something. Besides, we know very little of the two brothers' background in the new story. Where did they come from? How did they obtain their crafting skill? How are they connected to the villagers and the Toa? For all we know, the story given in the animation could be a distorted account, like the Mata Nui legend.

[Clone 01354 Productions]

Granted, we never knew for certain if the Turaga's tale was true, but in a meta sense, we knew that there was a Mata Nui. Why else would the plot have been so devoted to him? If the Toa had been trying to awaken a myth, the story would have lost something.

Basically what I said, but......whatever. *Great minds think alike.*

[Dorek]

Well, in a more general sense, the twist would have been similar. Either way, the Toa didn't fully realize the scope of their undertaking, nor did they actually realize what Mata Nui represented. Mata Nui not existing at all would have paved the way for something different, to be sure, but I think the implications on the story are similar.

[Kalhiki]

Reading up on the Vahi on Biosector01.

1) The Vahi was damaged and leaked energy, affecting life around it.

2) It can't be used for time travel.

3) Last we saw of it, Voporak had it and took it to Spherus Magna.

Make of that what you will. So far, the Vahi is the only connection we could have between the two universes.

Also, the Vahi is one of three legendary masks along with Life and Creation. In the new universe, Ekimu has Creation. Ultimate Power is kind of like Life? And if the Vahi is half a mask... Couple it with Makuta's Mask of Control and you have what?

Time Control.

BAM!

EDIT: The Mask of Time can't be controlled by any normal being. But Makuta has the Mask of Control now, so....

Edited October 10, 2014 by Kalhiki

[Chro]

I am 100% sure that Lego wouldn't have gone and said to kids "Yeah, Mata Nui (God, as you said) is fake. He doesn't exist. The Matoran worshiped a lie!"

The only real twist that Bionicle brought on was the HUGE ROBOT. It was never "Oh, is religion real?". And really, this makes it better: two normal people. But they are just exceptionally skilled; maybe THEY created the Protectors.

Which brings on another point: it was reported that the Protectors are leaders of the tribes. Could the tribes themselves still be Matoran?!?

I believe that the Protector sets represent the typical Matoran-esque villager-type characters of their respective tribes, while each specific Protector set is (as a character) the Elder of their village, like a Turaga. I don't remember where I got that, though I know I heard it somewhere a few hours ago.