Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[GK733]

I still don't understand the blue eyes on Tahu though, they stick out in a weird way. o.o

They should have made red or at least orange eyes for Tahu and Pohatu the others are fine, but I guess that would've been too "evil". I hope we get rid of the red eyes being evil soon, even hero Factory didn't have that problem.

[Shakar]

I wanted to give Tahu yellow eyes at first, but then I saw they and Pohatu's bones were lime... so I'm keeping the blue eyes because they're the closest thing to his original pink-ish eyes. I hope we get the eye stalks in more colours, at least in bright green.... we never got the Breakout Brain Attack head in tr. reddish orange!

EDIT: I meant "Brain Attack head" of course... *facepalm*

Edited October 17, 2014 by Shakar

[arc]

Makes me wonder, does anyone know if the old metru eye stalks are compatible with the new heads?

[Aanchir]

Makes me wonder, does anyone know if the old metru eye stalks are compatible with the new heads?

They are not, nor are the new eye stalks compatible with the Toa Metru heads.

[TheDesuComplex]

I like his blue eyes, because they contrast the gold and red pretty well and make them stand out. I always hated the trans pink for Tahu's eyes myself.

Shame about the eyestalks, because I was considering tossing in some Metru ones if I wanted to neuter the popper.

[Aanchir]

I like his blue eyes, because they contrast the gold and red pretty well and make them stand out. I always hated the trans pink for Tahu's eyes myself.

Shame about the eyestalks, because I was considering tossing in some Metru ones if I wanted to neuter the popper.

Yeah, the use of Tr. Fluorescent Red for the original Tahu and Vakama sets was always a bit of an odd choice... a contrasting color would have stood out better. I was not a fan of the Toa Metru and other 2004–2005 sets using so many non-fluorecent transparent colors, but one thing I think they did do right was assigning eye colors that contrasted heavily with each element's primary color. Same goes for the Bohrok and Bohrok-Kal, to a lesser extent.

Speaking of which, I had never really thought about it, but it's odd that Bohrok eyes never existed in Tr. Fluore. Red and Tr. Fluore. Yellow, seeing as both those colors were available for the Toa Mata sets before the Bohrok were released, and for the Toa Nuva afterwards. Bohrok eyes didn't even show up in Tr. Fluore. Blue until the Alpha Team sets of 2004 (though they later did make their way into BIONICLE with the Kazi set from 2006). I guess part of the reasoning might have been that the designers wanted to have Krana in all the iconic LEGO colors like Bright Red and Bright Blue, and chose the eye colors based on what best matched the Krana colors they settled on for the Bohrok.

As cool as it was to have different eye colors for each tribe, I'm more than happy for eye colors to be more limited seeing as there are now so many fewer fluorescent colors to choose from. Though I can't say I understand the blue eyes in the new sets being Tr. Light Blue rather than Tr. Fluore. Blue. They DO match more CCBS parts this way, but I hope it's not a sign Tr. Fluore. Blue is leaving the color palette in the near future...

[arc]

I never really minded if the eyes were fluorescent, as long as there trans it's good enough for me.

They are not, nor are the new eye stalks compatible with the Toa Metru heads.

it's a shame really, I was looking forward to putting in trans Dark green for onua. Let's hope lego will make more colors in the coming waves.

[GK733]

Yeah, the use of Tr. Fluorescent Red for the original Tahu and Vakama sets was always a bit of an odd choice... a contrasting color would have stood out better. I was not a fan of the Toa Metru and other 2004–2005 sets using so many non-fluorecent transparent colors, but one thing I think they did do right was assigning eye colors that contrasted heavily with each element's primary color. Same goes for the Bohrok and Bohrok-Kal, to a lesser extent.

Speaking of which, I had never really thought about it, but it's odd that Bohrok eyes never existed in Tr. Fluore. Red and Tr. Fluore. Yellow, seeing as both those colors were available for the Toa Mata sets before the Bohrok were released, and for the Toa Nuva afterwards. Bohrok eyes didn't even show up in Tr. Fluore. Blue until the Alpha Team sets of 2004 (though they later did make their way into BIONICLE with the Kazi set from 2006). I guess part of the reasoning might have been that the designers wanted to have Krana in all the iconic LEGO colors like Bright Red and Bright Blue, and chose the eye colors based on what best matched the Krana colors they settled on for the Bohrok.

As cool as it was to have different eye colors for each tribe, I'm more than happy for eye colors to be more limited seeing as there are now so many fewer fluorescent colors to choose from. Though I can't say I understand the blue eyes in the new sets being Tr. Light Blue rather than Tr. Fluore. Blue. They DO match more CCBS parts this way, but I hope it's not a sign Tr. Fluore. Blue is leaving the color palette in the near future...

Oohnorak did have trans yellow eyes though.

[Aanchir]

I never really minded if the eyes were fluorescent, as long as there trans it's good enough for me.

it's a shame really, I was looking forward to putting in trans Dark green for onua. Let's hope lego will make more colors in the coming waves.

Transparent Green (Trans-Dark Green) is just one example of why I do care so much about whether eye colors are fluorescent. It almost never glows unless you have a light shining directly on top of or behind it, and even then the glow tends to be much less bright than a transparent fluorescent color. Plus, it's so dark in color ordinarily that even a solid color like Bright Green might be brighter in typical lighting. On a Toa Metru head with a Tr. Green eyestalk, the back of the brain stalk tends to glow more brightly than the eyes themselves, no matter what your lighting setup. If a set's going to have transparent eyes in the first place, I want them to shine.

Tr. Light Blue is not as dark as Tr. Blue, Tr. Red, or Tr. Green, but I still can't help but feel that when given the choice between Tr. Light Blue and Tr. Fluore. Blue, the latter makes much more sense as an eye color.

Oohnorak did have trans yellow eyes though.

Yes, but even then it wasn't Transparent Fluorescent Yellow, just regular Transparent Yellow. Which is not awful, but still not quite as cool as if those parts had been available in a wider range of fluorescent colors.

[VBBN]

Generally I like to match eye colors to external trans pieces on a character. Even if trans dark green or trans dark blue don't light up as perfectly as trans fluor. green or orange, I would rather match the colors with external trans colors.

Of course, that's focused on the MOCing perspective of things. As far as sets are concerned, unless the eyes are on the outside of the head (Barraki, Visorak, Bohrok, etc) it really doesn't matter a whole lot to me. I don't know if the color is necessarily the issue with eye colors- Transformers uses light piping of a large range of colors and it usually works quite well.

[DuckBricks]

Generally I like to match eye colors to external trans pieces on a character. Even if trans dark green or trans dark blue don't light up as perfectly as trans flour. green or orange, I would rather match the colors with external trans colors.

Of course, that's focused on the MOCing perspective of things. As far as sets are concerned, unless the eyes are on the outside of the head (Barraki, Visorak, Bohrok, etc) it really doesn't matter a whole lot to me. I don't know if the color is necessarily the issue with eye colors- Transformers uses light piping of a large range of colors and it usually works quite well.

Agreed with the eyes same color as external bones thing... The eyes can really make or break a MOC or character...

[Mandate]

You realize these sets are about as Technic-based as most BIONICLE canister sets? Just as a random example, Pohatu (the simplest of the new Toa) and many of the Protectors include more basic Technic than a Toa Inika.

They don't use Technic pins to connect all of their armor on, of course, but that's because that's generally a limiting, obsolete building style that the designers were smart enough to do away with.

Actually I'm pretty sure that this is what people are talking about when they say they "want more Technic". They don't simply want Technic slapped onto the back of a character, making the back of the build ugly and fat. They want Technic integration. BIONICLE had an insane amount of clone sets inside of itself that caused half the problems with the old system and molds, because LEGO gave each of them a whole bunch of exclusive molds (or in the Bohrok's case, ONE) to define them better. And it was the stupid idea of streamlining the Ball Cups that virtually killed any MOC making with parts from '08, '09 and '10. Yeah, sure, there were the armor pieces but the entire frame of the figure was basically permaglued to itself, as far as many were concerned. It's also the driving factor behind my fear of buying anything from back then in used condition.

The two-pin system, while unique, has a lot of flaws from trying to be better than the previous system. Building is overly simplistic in many areas, and CCBS made no attempt to fix the torso articulation problem older sets had. Speaking of which, have we ever gotten a humanoid CCBS character with torso articulation? Evo XL doesn't count. Anyway, as I was saying, the main problem is that CCBS for the most part has had no real Technic integration. We haven't yet seen them make a "hip" and "shoulder" piece that could allow entire torsos to be made out of Technic and given the detailing and fittingly mechanical look for a Robot. Fortunately, there are ways to MOC this into place.

And IMO I prefer spindly arms covered by lacking armor (looking at you, Mata Nui) to gappy streamlined Shells that seemed to be thrown on as an afterthought. 2.0 were the debut sets, and as the debut sets they reveal the system as it was first made. Not a single one of the Heroes had back armor, and later attempts to solve this are unfulfilled. The two-pin system, while very good, also feels like an afterthought too with how it's only found on the end side of the Shells. The XT4 torso taught me why flipping a Shell around to use it as desired was a bad idea too.

So, is CCBS better than the old system? Yes and no. While it completed what it set out to accomplish, it failed for the most part in the MOCing department. Pure CCBS MOCs are hard to find, most are integrated in MOCs using the old system. And even then, there's only a sliver of CCBS on it. CCBS was designed purely as an easier building system, and for that reason I would be happy to wave goodbye to it. Most of the things seem like an afterthought to it, and it's very evident in the design that it wasn't as thoroughly thought out and planned as it could have been. Most notably the Shells and their gappy nature.

I would hardly call this Technic integration for the most part, LOSS is mostly Technic. But the Toa aren't what I would call Technic usage for the most part. They use Technic and it is a very big part of the set, but it's not the main focus of the set. I'm just glad we're getting BIONICLE-esue parts this year like the new Sword/ski/surf piece, and the axe/flipper/trident piece, and the shovel/claws/shoulder armor. Very nice pieces.

EDIT: They've modified the website. I think they changed the font, and they've separated the powers list. Not as good as I think many would want, but it's got full stops in-between powers now

Edited October 17, 2014 by JayWalker

[Aanchir]

I hardly think using Technic pins to stick together two parts that might as well be connected together directly counts as "integration". The purpose of Technic is to give models structural stability and functionality, not to act as an adhesive or slow down the building process. Now, Technic pins COULD be used creatively in older BIONICLE sets, just as they can in CCBS sets, but most of their use in small and medium-sized BIONICLE sets consisted of attaching a generic shell to the front of a generic beam, and usually right in the center to boot. For that kind of use, it's hard to see how using pins actually increased those sets' complexity.

What the dearth of pure CCBS MOCs tells me is that Hero Factory never took off like BIONICLE did, so the majority of experienced constraction MOCists got their start when the CCBS and its building styles were unheard of. Personally, I've embraced the challenge of learning the ins and outs of the CCBS, and nowadays I hardly ever depend on old-school BIONICLE parts in my MOCs (besides ones like Glatorian and Hordika neck joints that have stood the test of time and continue to be used in CCBS-based sets). I have a feeling that if the new BIONICLE really takes off, you'll see a LOT more MOCs using CCBS as their foundation.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Aanchir

[Mandate]

Even if it does take off as a MOCing system it won't take off or remain as the old system (we REALLY need a better name for it than "old system" ) did with MOCing. While CCBS is standardized, it's specialized in its own way. The standardization limits potential greatly when it comes to armor attachments. It's both harder and easy to build with at the same time. Easier because of its style, harder because it's not very friendly to parts outside of the CCBS system.

edit: Maybe when we see the new Combiners it might help.

Edited October 17, 2014 by JayWalker

[DuckBricks]

Even if it does take off as a MOCing system it won't take off or remain as the old system (we REALLY need a better name for it than "old system" ) did with MOCing. While CCBS is standardized, it's specialized in its own way. The standardization limits potential greatly when it comes to armor attachments. It's both harder and easy to build with at the same time. Easier because of its style, harder because it's not very friendly to parts outside of the CCBS system.

edit: Maybe when we see the new Combiners it might help.

I hope that when we see the combiners they aren't just the substandard Karda Nui Matoran-on-backs combiners...

EDIT: They've modified the website. I think they changed the font, and they've separated the powers list. Not as good as I think many would want, but it's got full stops in-between powers now

Really? Just checked the site, powers still clumped...

[Mandate]

I hope that when we see the combiners they aren't just the substandard Karda Nui Matoran-on-backs combiners...

I liked that concept, but those weren't really combiners. They combined two sets together, but they weren't mixing the two sets together to make something new.

[DuckBricks]

Even if it does take off as a MOCing system it won't take off or remain as the old system (we REALLY need a better name for it than "old system" ) did with MOCing. While CCBS is standardized, it's specialized in its own way. The standardization limits potential greatly when it comes to armor attachments. It's both harder and easy to build with at the same time. Easier because of its style, harder because it's not very friendly to parts outside of the CCBS system.

edit: Maybe when we see the new Combiners it might help.

How about BBS? BionicleBuildingSystem?

[Aanchir]

Even if it does take off as a MOCing system it won't take off or remain as the old system (we REALLY need a better name for it than "old system" ) did with MOCing. While CCBS is standardized, it's specialized in its own way. The standardization limits potential greatly when it comes to armor attachments. It's both harder and easy to build with at the same time. Easier because of its style, harder because it's not very friendly to parts outside of the CCBS system.

I guess your milage may vary. I don't really find it much more unfriendly to Technic and System parts than pre-CCBS building systems were. It doesn't work all that well with certain older BIONICLE parts, but I find that to be as much of a limitation of the old system as of the new one. If I can't use a Toa Metru thigh or shoulder shell with a CCBS beam (not that I'd necessarily want to, given their more specialized textures), that's as much the fault of the shell as it is the fault of the beam. And it's not just CCBS parts where you run into the limitations of older parts like that. Using a thigh shell like that with a Toa Nuva leg beam or a Toa Metru lower arm beam wouldn't be much easier. The parts just weren't designed to go together in that way.

I hope that when we see the combiners they aren't just the substandard Karda Nui Matoran-on-backs combiners...

Well, not quite. The Toa+Protector combining function is just the weapons of the Protector being attached to the Toa in the examples we've seen. It does not involve actually sticking the two sets together, nor does it involve really taking either of the sets apart.

But at the same time, that doesn't rule out the possibility of other combi models that don't appear on the packages. The two Hero Factory combi models for the second half of 2014 weren't advertised anywhere on the packages, but they do involve a lot of rebuilding and creative part use.

How about BBS? BionicleBuildingSystem?

Won't really work now that BIONICLE is using the CCBS. And in fact, it's a lot harder to think of older BIONICLE sets as all sharing a unified building system. Putting together a Toa Mata is practically an entirely different building experience than putting together a Toa Inika, which is in turn a different building experience than putting together a 2001 Rahi. The only think they have in common are the types of connection points they use, and most of those are also used in both non-constraction Technic sets and the CCBS.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Aanchir

[DuckBricks]

I liked that concept, but those weren't really combiners. They combined two sets together, but they weren't mixing the two sets together to make something new.

Yeah, I guess... Although the Makuta ones had them mounted at a very strange angle...

[arc]

I hope that when we see the combiners they aren't just the substandard Karda Nui Matoran-on-backs combiners...

I think we saw a glimpse of them at comic con. IIRC it's just the toa getting weapon upgrades from the protectors.

And yeah, those 08 "combiners" were pretty bad. it's probably just my dirty mind, but the little guys jumping on the back and riding the bigger ones just seems wrong to me.

I just got ninja'd by 4 posts. I must type slow.

Edited October 17, 2014 by arc

[Kalhiki]

However combiners go down, if they don't give us official Kaita, I'm sure making them.

Edited October 17, 2014 by Kalhiki

[Mandate]

Wasn't it confirmed by a leaker we were getting Kaita?

edit: yeah, by some guy on a French forum

edit: wait, no. It was just "combiners"

Edited October 17, 2014 by JayWalker

[Dorek]

The Protectors combine with the Toa (I guess Brain Attack sets are the best analogy?), from what we can tell.

I'm sure we'll get a story-based combiner in the magazine, and maybe online. Kaita would be nice, though the website arrangement of the Toa in their Kaita combinations is enough for me, even if it was unintentional =P.

[Sir Walter Maugham]

As cool as it was to have different eye colors for each tribe, I'm more than happy for eye colors to be more limited seeing as there are now so many fewer fluorescent colors to choose from. Though I can't say I understand the blue eyes in the new sets being Tr. Light Blue rather than Tr. Fluore. Blue. They DO match more CCBS parts this way, but I hope it's not a sign Tr. Fluore. Blue is leaving the color palette in the near future...

Why do you prefer the fluorescent colors over the normal transparent colors? Do they not "light up" as well? (when in front of a light source)

The colors that I remember lighting up the best were the light blue, orange and lime Metru eye pieces. Were those fluorescent? The other three (dark blue red and green) hardly lit up at all.

All the Bohork eyes looked find to me though. I never had a problem with those.

[Mandate]

The whole "combination" thing with the Protectors is why I'm buying two of them each so I can have one that still retains his/her weaponry.