Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I prefer the attention to detail in G1 (even if it's more of a sure why not) because it makes everything so much larger, but I can understand that it gets confusing. I'll be looking forward to the reboot, but I'm still gonna pay attention to what details get canonized for G1.

[Tazakk]

Apparently a lot of stuff in the MNOG was non-canon ;)

Which is completely bogus because why can't it be canon?

Excellent question!

The confusion with 2001 canon that still flares up occasionally today has its basis in a few things. Most critically, it is important to keep in mind that the core story team didn't look at BIONICLE in a literalistic, "this is exactly what happened in detail and anything said otherwise is not storyline accurate," manner. That was all Greg, as it was his job to fill in the details of the story. The story team as a whole just worked in broad strokes. In 2001, the primary story engine was to be the PC game. It utilized the concepts developed by the story team and adapted them into a fleshed-out story, just as Greg would do through the books in later years.

But then it was cancelled. So the BIONICLE team put their faith in Templar, who had already created the wildly successful online game, to integrate the details of the story's conclusion into their game's finale. Templar, who had from the beginning been very careful to adhere to the story as laid out in the story bible and expanded on in other story sources, especially the PC game, created an ending that was true to the game it was based on. So fans got to see the end of the story and all was well.

Then 2003 happened. In the lead-up to the premiere of Mask of Light, LEGO would have wanted an easily accessible way for consumers to catch up on the story so far. Enter the BIONICLE Chronicles books, written by C. A. Hapka. But somebody goofed, and failed to give Hapka any of the primary resources from 2001 to work off of - the story we got from her seems to have been written solely off of Greg's comics and a truncated summary of what 2001 was about. The resulting book is full of contradictions with the original material. But the story team approved it - why not? It followed all of the broad strokes they had laid out back in 2001, as far as they remembered two years down the road on something that was not their passion, but their job.

Greg didn't really help things. He wasn't there when the story was developed for 2001, so while he knew more about it than Hapka he knew less than he probably should have. He kind of kicked MNOG to the gutter on the basis of 'it wasn't approved by the story team,' despite the fact that it stayed much more true to the original 2001 core story, from the PC game, than Hapka's book. He also just would randomly say that stuff from it wasn't canon, presumably when he didn't like it for whatever reason. In the 2003 Style Guide story summary he changes Tahu's encounter with Jala in the charred forest, saying Tahu saw Jala (without anyone else), scared him, and then walked along to find Ta-Koro. He said that Puku wasn't a taxi crab, and that taxi crabs didn't exist, because apparently that's just absurd, why would the Onu-Koronans need efficient transportation between their city and the rest of the island?

So basically, the original 2001 story was buried under a preoccupation with going back and defining what "really happened," in exact detail. Canon has always seemed silly to me. People are going to interpret a story in a different ways, according to how it speaks to them - why go through and say what is right and what is wrong? Worse yet, why go and change something that people liked in the first place, for no apparent reason other than to have the "offical" version of the whole story lined up neatly?

Edited October 19, 2014 by Tazakk

[Still Raindrop]

Excellent points, Tazakk. I feel that the 2015 story will probably be much better about this. As fun as it was back in the day to have Greg answer questions, I hope that there won't be something similar with a story team member in 2015. That could make it a lot less convoluted.

[Agent Fusion]

I wonder what they plan to do with the Vahi and Temple of Time. I just hope it doesn't overcomplicate things.

[Dorek]

Some of the confusion also has to do with the direct sequel (MNOG2) having a whole bunch of unapproved characters and names. So basically, your average villager is hard to consider "canon" and is just a background fill.

But for all intents and purposes, it's canon.

I wouldn't mind a dedicated story member to ask questions to, but only if it's in a regulated manner, like Ask Greg was on the BIONICLE websites back in the day. Or if they worked with fans (like BS01 hint hint wink wink nudge nudge) to make sure all their ducks are in a row.

[Mandate]

I tried to play MNOG 2 but it looked so incredibly dated in comparison to MNOG 1, which is dreadfully ironic. MNOG 2 was harder to navigate for me, not because I got lost but because of how large the environments were. If they make an OOG, I don't want it to some stupid 3D Unity game like Speedorz or the Invasion From Below game. And I most certainly wouldn't want to see it be an MMO. That would just kill it for me because Chima Online is STILL in Beta (not to mention it feels like it's the "wave goodbye" wave now) and it adds a whole layer of complexity that doesn't need to be there.

[TheDesuComplex]

TTv has published a

of Lewa! I say 'review' because it's more of a preview, but ah well. Thank you for making these guys, and I'm looking forward to the rest of them.

Lewa is confirmed for Apple Green! I thought he was gonna be Mata green this entire time. What constraction parts have we gotten in Apple Green and Flame Orange so far?

[Agent Fusion]

TTV has uploaded a review of Lewa, though I haven't watched it yet, I will update once I have.

Edit: Drat ninja'd.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Agent Fusion

[Mandate]

Many Ninjas here. Ninjas belong on the Action Forums, shoo! Shoo!

[Shakar]

TTv has published a

of Lewa! I say 'review' because it's more of a preview, but ah well. Thank you for making these guys, and I'm looking forward to the rest of them.

Lewa is confirmed for Apple Green! I thought he was gonna be Mata green this entire time. What constraction parts have we gotten in Apple Green and Flame Orange so far?

We got a few Apple Green (Bright Green officially) pieces in 2012, mostly from Green Lantern (2.0 feet, Superhero chest piece wtih the GL logo printed on it, Savage Planet trapezoid paw shells and shoulder armour pentagonal shells) but from Joker too (the Breakout torso, a piece Lego seems to have forgotten..). I already knew the Jungle sets were bright green since I had asked Aanchir after NYCC, I'm really happy they went down that route because we already ahve a handful of CCBS pieces in that colour, while we have nothing in Mata Green.

Flame Orange is simply Keetorange, so we have a lot of pieces. In CCBS, though, all we got were the pieces from Jetbug and Stringer 3.0, plus 8M shells in Lavertus's Outpost from Chima. Jungle Protector introduces the second shortest lower limb bones in Keetorange too.

Will edit with my thoughts on Lewa here or in another post I was writing before the video came out.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Shakar

[Mandate]

Ugh, after seeing the back of his arms I've noticed that all they need to do to fix the whole back armor issue is put some pins in and a 1x3 technic beam in the color of your choosing.

edit: clarification: his arms look fine, I'm referring to his back legs being uncovered.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JayWalker

[Toa of Gallifrey]

I really liked Lewa, but I found it ironic how he glides like Lewa Nuva yet can't move his head up. Also I wish they used Dragon Bolt's wing piece, which I think looks like an actual katana, in place of silver Tahu swords since they look nicer with the axe piece and because that'd be a reference to Lewa Nuva's Air Katana.

[Aanchir]

TTv has published a

of Lewa! I say 'review' because it's more of a preview, but ah well. Thank you for making these guys, and I'm looking forward to the rest of them.

I really dislike all the errors... I know they acknowledge that possibility at the beginning, but it still feels a bit disingenuous treating this as a "set review" when there are both minor and major inaccuracies to the actual set.

Specific flaws: the small gears are the wrong design and color. The way they have his back armor/tail attached should use this piece, not a perpendicular connector and friction pin/axle like they used. The Dark Stone Grey 2M Technic beams in this picture should instead be the new 1M circle pin bushings also seen in Medium Stone Grey in one of the Ultra Agents sets next year. And consequently, the connectors should be this new 3M pin from this year rather than regular 2M pins and axles.

Worst of all, they complained at length about the gears rubbing up against his neck, which is NOT a real problem because there should not be ANY small gears behind his neck! That's the entire reason he has the small gears in his shoulders — ones behind his neck would INEVITABLY collide with the neck joint, so they were moved. The same applies to Kopaka, whose gearbox is also raised (albeit not as high as Lewa's).

Lewa is confirmed for Apple Green! I thought he was gonna be Mata green this entire time. What constraction parts have we gotten in Apple Green and Flame Orange so far?

All the other Bright Green constraction parts can be seen in the inventories for Green Lantern and The Joker.

Flame Yellowish Orange has been in more sets, but not a lot of constraction parts overall. 8x5 torso shells, 6M shells, 8M shells, and Savage Planet "paw pieces" are the main shell designs to exist in this color prior to 2015. Other Flame Yellowish Orange pre-2015 CCBS parts include 7M beams from Jetbug and the 2.0 Hero head, 3M spike details, and curved claws from Stringer 3.0. I think that's everything...

Edited October 19, 2014 by Aanchir

[Mandate]

@Toa of Gallifrey That part was in use long before Dragon Bolt. It was first used in 2012 sets, in the Winter Wave. And I disagree, as much as I prefer that part it doesn't fit the whole axe style.

Edited October 19, 2014 by JayWalker

[Toa of Gallifrey]

My bad, I didn't know. Eh, I prefer the aforementioned swords but the ones that are there look pretty nice nonetheless.

[Timeline15]

Welp, predictably enough, Lewa looks a lot better irl than in cgi. The dual function is cool, I might just keep him in adrenaline mode (still a stupid name XD) Also the first time I've seen green lantern green next to mata green on screen. It appears to be brighter or paler. I just wish they had kept his secondary colour as lime. Meh, easy enough to swap out.

[Kalhiki]

Lewa doesn't look half bad. Pretty good, actually.

Color scheme has grown on me considerably. With it being autumn, some of the trees are turning yellow while others are still green. Every time I look outside I see Lewa.

[Lyichir]

Lewa doesn't look half bad. Pretty good, actually.

Color scheme has grown on me considerably. With it being autumn, some of the trees are turning yellow while others are still green. Every time I look outside I see Lewa.

He'll look even better when he's built correctly. TTV could've easily Bricklinked some of the missing parts, since they have almost all of the new ones (and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look). But no, gotta jump the gun if you want those views and the sweet, sweet ad revenue that comes with them.

[Mandate]

They could have just bought two lots of Cloud Cuckoo land for the gears

But yeah, a lot of these look far better IRL rather than CGI, the CGI looked (and still does) horrible to me. It's even worse with the stupid color filter they've put on top of most sets.

[IllustriousVar]

He'll look even better when he's built correctly. TTV could've easily Bricklinked some of the missing parts, since they have almost all of the new ones (and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look). But no, gotta jump the gun if you want those views and the sweet, sweet ad revenue that comes with them.

Apologies for sticking with our schedule while the bricklink orders ship.

Not like we made it clear it was a build rather then a retail set or anything.

Edited October 19, 2014 by IllustriousVar

[Mesonak]

I really dislike all the errors... I know they acknowledge that possibility at the beginning, but it still feels a bit disingenuous treating this as a "set review" when there are both minor and major inaccuracies to the actual set.

Specific flaws: the small gears are the wrong design and color. The way they have his back armor/tail attached should use this piece, not a perpendicular connector and friction pin/axle like they used. The Dark Stone Grey 2M Technic beams in this picture should instead be the new 1M circle pin bushings also seen in Medium Stone Grey in one of the Ultra Agents sets next year. And consequently, the connectors should be this new 3M pin from this year rather than regular 2M pins and axles.

Worst of all, they complained at length about the gears rubbing up against his neck, which is NOT a real problem because there should not be ANY small gears behind his neck! That's the entire reason he has the small gears in his shoulders — ones behind his neck would INEVITABLY collide with the neck joint, so they were moved. The same applies to Kopaka, whose gearbox is also raised (albeit not as high as Lewa's).

Very fair points! I'm glad you acknowledge the beginning disclaimer because, along with the one in the description, it's there for a reason. :P

All of the issues except for the neck-gears are comparatively minor and don't really affect the set either in functionality OR appearance. The neck-gear flub, though, is pretty serious and warrants an annotation/description update. I'll get on that ASAP; thanks for the correction!

He'll look even better when he's built correctly.

(and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look).

ok

Edited October 19, 2014 by Mesonak

[AyliffeMakit]

Every time I look outside I see Lewa.

#StalkerLewa2015

[Shakar]

Finally watched the Lewa review and my, he looks beautiful. I love Lewa Phantoka, he and Lewa Mata have been standing on my desk for about a month now, but this one is pretty much 01 Lewa, my favourite Toa set of all time, so I'll let you guess how much I like this set. Really can't wait to get him, I want to make some mods here and there but the set is awesome already (and as I said before, modding a set is a sign of love for me!). Oh, and I do really like this and the other chest designs, it's a bit odd that they're assymetrical but I like how they looks like war paint, as if they were elite warriors from an ancient mysterious tribe. And the Miru Mask of Jungle aw forget it, it's still the Miru for me- looks gorgeous, I mean wow.

And here's the post I was writing before, I'll put it in spoiler tags because it's too disjointed from the rest of the post:

Sorry to butt in now, I know some of you replied to my points but I don't have time to directly quote them now. But before too much time passes, I'll reply to what I remember:

-Yeah, I know Laval wears blue. That's another colour they've been pushing for main heroes. Still, he's tan and his Ultrabuilds are gold.

-I agree, Takanuva could look good with gold as his main colour- lots of gold, kinda like Brutaka for example. Warm gold, even when used in large quantities, doesn't look tacky IMO, and with the CCBS colour layering is easy to manage.

And, I thought of two neat things I'd love to see in future sets (just some wishful thinking/speculation):

-The big proto Tahu in the middle. Not sure about the yellow..stuff, but holy crap that mask looks cool, so do those wing/spikes. I wouldn't mind if they reused this design (or some of its elements) for the inevitable powered up Tahu we're getting in 2016.

-Someone mentioned they would be perfect for a LoMN Teridax MOC, either way Smaug's wings are awesome (and they can be closed!). I wonder if there's any chance we could see them in BIONICLE. Sadly I fear Lego is not allowed to reuse in another theme pieces specifically designed for licensed sets, is there someone here who knows how these things work? I'd sure love to be proven wrong.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Shakar

[Toa Eljay]

He'll look even better when he's built correctly. TTV could've easily Bricklinked some of the missing parts, since they have almost all of the new ones (and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look). But no, gotta jump the gun if you want those views and the sweet, sweet ad revenue that comes with them.

Someone's never heard of a Recap Review.

But hey hey! I'm here now! Time to lurk and post when appropriate.

(And when they let me out of the cage)

So far, I'm really enjoying how these sets look. I'm quite excited for Lewa, despite his interesting new colors, especially the Keetorange (Do people still call it that?). Tahu looks pretty cool, and I like that they've changed all the Toa's heights and overall looks. Gives them quite a bit more character than I think they've ever had before. Eager as always to get my hands on them.

-Eljay

[Kalhiki]

He'll look even better when he's built correctly. TTV could've easily Bricklinked some of the missing parts, since they have almost all of the new ones (and the ones they're missing don't really affect the look). But no, gotta jump the gun if you want those views and the sweet, sweet ad revenue that comes with them.

Meh. I don't blame 'em for putting up pseudo-reviews for the sets. Yeah, they're not accurate, but it gives a good look at the final sets' appearances... More or less.

Complaining about things like the gears getting in the way of the neck should definitely have been avoided, though. But it looks like they'll mention that in an annotation according to Mesonak.