Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Kahi]

I understand what you're both saying (and as much as it annoys me when new fans of LEGO aren't "in the know" so to speak) but you've got to remember that everyone makes mistakes. And the only way to move past a mistake is to learn from it and move on. There were errors in the Tahu build as well, and LEGO employees HELPED them on that. So just keep in mind, mistakes are bound to happen even if they had an official copy.

I just wanted to say: to everyone that's come to our defense, thanks. Yeah, people do make mistakes, and we sure have made quite a lot of them in our time. But the flipside to that is that it's just our personal responsibility to own up to these mistakes. We don't make them willingly, and that's why we need people to point them out to us. Seriously, the sooner you let us know about this stuff, the better, because we're able to address it that much more quickly. That's why I honestly do appreciate what Aanchir's said here: we've made a mistake and he let us know directly, on our channel, so we can correct it as soon as possible.

Forgive my earlier rudeness, but the YouTube-ization of the Bionicle community has not, from my perspective, been a positive force. More and more I find myself having to clear up misconceptions STARTED by TTV which are then circulated by fans who take their word as gospel.

From what I remember, there's two big things that have come under contention with us recently: the BZPower video, and the soft reboot thing.

The soft reboot conversation went something like this:

Me: "A lot of people have been debating if it's a continuation or a reboot. Can you tell us a bit more about this?"

Jordan Paxton: "Well...I don't want to exactly call it a reboot".

Me: "Is it more like a 'soft reboot' with a connection to old story, like the new Star Trek movies?"

Jordan Paxton: "The new Star Trek movies are a really good comparison to what we're trying to do, yes."

Now, my words were probably misconstrued; from what I hear, the "Star Trek" comparison was heard by a lot of people who also talked to staff, and I think it was the go-to comparison for what 2015 was going to be like. So it is extremely probable that because I name-dropped "Star Trek", he agreed to that and thought what I meant by "connection to old story" it was referencing old stuff like the Toa Mata, Makuta and the Vahi. And of course, the time-travel answer he gave to us when we asked if the Toa were the same didn't help but to reinforce that. I want to be clear that we did not try to lead him into saying that it was a soft reboot (I thought it was and wanted a hard reboot up until this), it was only his answer that he didn't want to "exactly" call it a reboot that led us to ask that question. And when we brought it up later by asking about if the Toa were the same, he didn't deny that, he just gave us a sidestepping answer about the Vahi being "half a mask" that really sounded like it was hinting towards some time-travel connection (which, also coincidentally, is the part of the plot of the new Star Trek movies, which we took as father confirmation).

When BZPower said that that wasn't correct later on, I pointed to them as the correct source and directed people over to their videos (we didn't get any of those interviews on video, so they're a much more reliable source for that). And also to be fair I had said that "soft reboot" was the exact words, but I was wrong in implying that it was LEGO's exact words, not mine that were agreed with. That was an honest mistake, and one that I should have been clear on before making that tweet. I've tried to rectify by posting clarification tweets and posts since then, but yeah. Honestly, while I'm more than happy to correct that information since others have claimed it was wrong, I don't exactly see what happened there as my fault persay; outside of the wrongly worded tweet, that was what was said to me and we just happened to miscommunicate in all of the wrong ways.

Don't get me wrong. I admire TTV for their role in bringing information to a very large part of the fan community. I just think they should hold themselves more accountable for the accuracy of their reporting. I'm frankly getting fed up with having to correct misinformation that originates with them.

I'm really sorry you've had to deal with this, and we take full responsibility for this. Honestly, if you can just give us a list of instances when you've had to correct people, we will definitely go on record and make clarification/apology videos/annotations/etc. so that it doesn't go any further. It's a first step towards getting to where we want to be.

EDIT: I'm so sorry, VBBN; I've been writing this post for a while and did not see your post there. That's my bad. If you guys want to contact us on our PM or on our channel or anything with that list, we're still open to following through.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Kahi

[Shakar]

Yup, Tahu is pretty tall, I'm pretty sure he's the tallest one actually. Not sure if I like that, ideally I see all 6 Mata around the same height but if I had to choose who is the tallest one it'd probably be Kopaka.

Anyway, I think Tahu and Kopaka are only slightly shorter than a Inika. Gali and Lewa are slightly taller than a Toa Metru (they're as tall as mid size 2012 HF sets, ie Splitface), while Onua and Pohatu are between a Nuva and a Metru.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Shakar

[IllustriousVar]

Yup, Tahu is pretty tall, I'm pretty sure he's the tallest one actually. Not sure if I like that, ideally I see all 6 Mata around the same height but if I had to choose who is the tallest one it'd probably be Kopaka.

Anyway, I think Tahu and Kopaka are only slightly shorter than a Inika. Gali and Lewa are slightly taller than a Toa Metru, while Onua and Pohatu are between a Nuva and a Metru.

His arms are rather short considering how long his legs are. Very odd proportions, but I don't mind too much. It does seem a little weird that he's the tallest of them all though.

And you're right on the money as far as those size comparisons go.

[Kalhiki]

I kinda like the choices they made with the sizes. Lewa is the agile type, so a smaller size fits. Pohatu's always been the speed guy (even if his Mask Power isn't speed anymore) so making him small and fast makes sense. Gali's a girl, and on average most females are shorter than males.

Tahu and Kopaka always were the leader-type characters (don't know the direction for the story, so it may not hold true in this case), so a taller, more powerful body makes sense for the leaders. And Onua's the strongman. So he gets to be super buff.

[Sir Walter Maugham]

Wow, only slightly taller than a Toa Metru huh? Very interesting. I wasn't expecting the midsized Toa to be so short.

I've never bought any Hero Factory sets, so I don't even have the basic parts to create any sort of mock up. Thanks.

[Mandate]

Anyone have an idea as to how the PoE's staff... blaster... thing works? I can't figure out how to fire it short of turning the cannon itself...

edit: wait, no. Figured it out. The rotating staff is actually connected down the center, it's an optical illusion (intentional or not) that gives the impression the staff's rod is in both hands

Edited October 20, 2014 by JayWalker

[Nekchir]

I'm alright with the sizes; more room in my display case.

[Still Raindrop]

Same here. I wasn't a fan of how big the later sets got, and I was glad when Hero Factory made the figures smaller. I was worried that Bio2015 would make them too big again--glad this is not the case.

[Aanchir]

I was going to respond to Aanchir's post, but I will respect the forum rules of putting on horse blinders and ignoring a discussion's natural progression.

...

There, they are on now.

So while watching that review, when Lewa was compared to his Toa Nuva counterpart, I noticed that he was not as tall as I thought he would be. How tall are these sets? I assume Tahu and Kopaka are a bit taller than Pohatu, Gali and Lewa but are they taller than a Toa Inika?

Pohatu and Onua are roughly 23 modules tall (slightly shorter than a Toa Metru, and close to the same height as most of the original Toa Nuva). They are the shortest two members of the team, in accordance with the 2001 and 2002 sets.

Gali and Lewa are both roughly 25 modules tall (taller than most of the Toa Metru, shorter than Nokama and Nuju).

Kopaka is 26 modules tall (roughly the height of Toa Metru Nokama and Nuju, or Toa Mahri Hahli).

Tahu is 27 modules tall (roughly the height of Toa Iruini, slightly shorter than a Toa Inika).

The average height is only slightly taller than the average height of the Toa Metru, and if Tahu were one module shorter they'd have exactly the same average height.

[Mandate]

I just noticed LEGO had gotten into the habit of "CGI-ing" the sets. That might sound late, but I'm not talking about the fact they're rendered in CGI. Take a look at Gali's right hand and her weapon connection. Here's the thing: It's off center. Lewa and PoE have the same issues, Lewa on the right hand and PoE on the left. It's not a gigantic issue (nor is it from the sides of the boxes) but it's an alarming one for me. I'm going to be very annoyed if this becomes common place.

[Nekchir]

You mean making the sets better than they actually are in real life?

[GK733]

I just noticed LEGO had gotten into the habit of "CGI-ing" the sets. That might sound late, but I'm not talking about the fact they're rendered in CGI. Take a look at Gali's right hand and her weapon connection. Here's the thing: It's off center. Lewa and PoE have the same issues, Lewa on the right hand and PoE on the left. It's not a gigantic issue (nor is it from the sides of the boxes) but it's an alarming one for me. I'm going to be very annoyed if this becomes common place.

I don't know about you but everytime I take a look at Jetbug's boxart it almost looks like a painting. http://c1.yoyo.com/images/products/p/lg/lg-218_1z.jpg

[Mandate]

Anyone recommend purchasing the NYCC Posters? I know they're small, but are they worth it?

[CabooseBM]

Worst of all, they complained at length about the gears rubbing up against his neck, which is NOT a real problem because there should not be ANY small gears behind his neck! That's the entire reason he has the small gears in his shoulders — ones behind his neck would INEVITABLY collide with the neck joint, so they were moved. The same applies to Kopaka, whose gearbox is also raised (albeit not as high as Lewa's).

That is hilarious! Quality reporting there, TTV!

Edited October 20, 2014 by CabooseBM

[Mandate]

That is hilarious! Quality reporting there, TTV!

Yet removing the gears doesn't really change articulation much anyway.

(not singling you out here Caboose) Comments like these are why I don't want to start uploading videos to my Youtube channel. Make one blunder and everyone will laugh at you for eternity, and I have emotional issues and self-hatred enough as it is.

MOVING ON... I don't get why everyone is complaining about Okoto. I hated it myself until I saw the concepts for it, but while natural transitions is a problem (not entirely true, the ice and water areas aren't completely separated...) I don't get the hate for it. It looks ridiculously colorful in the cartoon, I'll give them that.

[Kingslayer]

Yup, Tahu is pretty tall, I'm pretty sure he's the tallest one actually. Not sure if I like that, ideally I see all 6 Mata around the same height but if I had to choose who is the tallest one it'd probably be Kopaka.

Anyway, I think Tahu and Kopaka are only slightly shorter than a Inika. Gali and Lewa are slightly taller than a Toa Metru (they're as tall as mid size 2012 HF sets, ie Splitface), while Onua and Pohatu are between a Nuva and a Metru.

I was at first a little taken back by the height differences but I dont mind it so much now. It makes each Toa more different and unique which is a really important thing. Also I think if I HAD to make three Toa a larger size I would have chosen the same three that were chosen. Couldnt imagine the smaller Toa as larger sets. Although it does beg the question of what we will see in 2016. If the same Toa return will their sizes be kept the same? I actually theories that they will all be medium size sets so that they can then include canister villains too. I would almost bet my house keys we will see canister villains in 2016, possibly even the winter wave which would be GREAT.

What do you guys think?

That is hilarious! Quality reporting there, TTV!

Also, if I didn't know any better I would say that was pretty passive aggressive behavior right there.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Kingslayer

[Mandate]

I doubt we will see similar heights again. Canister Villains contributed a fair bit to BIONICLE's downfall; less focus on cool and innovative designs and more of a focus on heroes and villains fighting one another. It's one area I think LOSS has failed in, an attempt to recreate what made the Rahi special but ultimately failing because it missed the very point of the Rahi for the most part. It's with LOSS that I've come to realize exactly why we don't see Technic and CCBS used together; it's because they're fundamentally incompatible. CCBS is about bones and shells, Technic about beams, pins and gears, CCBS is about simplicity and standardization while in the meantime Technic is about complexity and innovation with what you've already got. They're completely different aesthetically too.

The IRL pics we've gotten of LOSS, and the posters that show the underside, indicate that my hopes were in vain for LOSS. It's not a walking function like Pewku, it's not a special design I was hoping for. It's a grab function. Arguably understandable and in-line with the Skull Spiders being head huggers/Headcrabs, but for me LOSS doesn't cut it as a replacement for the Rahi. I never bought any of the original BIONICLE sets, save Tahu Nuva and some other all of which I only bought in these last few weeks, but just from the reviews I can see that the Rahi were so much more than LOSS is and will be. Real shame too. Would have loved to have seen a special, unexpected design with him.

[CabooseBM]

I dunno man, The Lord of Skull Spiders seems like a fair equivalent to the similarly priced Nui-Rama.

[Agent Fusion]

I'm really liking LOSS's design. The state of this forum, not so much.

[Aanchir]

I just noticed LEGO had gotten into the habit of "CGI-ing" the sets. That might sound late, but I'm not talking about the fact they're rendered in CGI. Take a look at Gali's right hand and her weapon connection. Here's the thing: It's off center. Lewa and PoE have the same issues, Lewa on the right hand and PoE on the left. It's not a gigantic issue (nor is it from the sides of the boxes) but it's an alarming one for me. I'm going to be very annoyed if this becomes common place.

This isn't necessarily all that new, and it's definitely rarer than it used to be. The Toa Mata and Toa Nuva back in 2001 and 2002 often had articulation on the package art that the actual sets lacked, such as articulated knees, elbows, hips, waists, and necks. Obviously this kind of creative license is OK in animations, and I'd even argue it's sometimes OK on a product's package — but not necessarily as the main image.

Anyone recommend purchasing the NYCC Posters? I know they're small, but are they worth it?

They're great posters! I only have the Gali and Onua ones. They're not that small... 17 inches tall by 11 inches wide is not huge as far as posters are concerned, but it's bigger than the "posters" that came with the Toa Mata sets back in 2001, and depending on how many you get, they could take up quite a bit of space on your wall (there were seven or eight posters total).

It's up to you if you think you want them. Not sure what kind of price they go for online.

I was at first a little taken back by the height differences but I dont mind it so much now. It makes each Toa more different and unique which is a really important thing. Also I think if I HAD to make three Toa a larger size I would have chosen the same three that were chosen. Couldnt imagine the smaller Toa as larger sets. Although it does beg the question of what we will see in 2016. If the same Toa return will their sizes be kept the same? I actually theories that they will all be medium size sets so that they can then include canister villains too. I would almost bet my house keys we will see canister villains in 2016, possibly even the winter wave which would be GREAT.

What do you guys think?

To be honest, that was one of my big questions when I discovered that the sets would be different sizes and price points. But to be honest, I think the LEGO Group should be able to give the characters similar relative sizes without necessarily keeping them all at the same price points they're at now. I mean, as far as proportions are concerned, Tahu and Kopaka are not THAT much taller than Gali or Lewa. Changing their armor could allow you to raise or lower their price point.

Onua's a slightly trickier case, but it's not like there's never been a $15 set with similar proportions. CHI Gorzan had a longer torso and shorter legs, but his chest and shoulders were around the same width as Onua's. He lacked a complex gearbox, so did the other $15 Legends of Chima constraction sets, but that didn't stop the 87-piece Gali from having roughly the same price and proportions as the 55-piece CHI Laval.

Also, on the subject of the Legends of Chima constraction sets, I think those do a good job showing that the LEGO Group can "upgrade" a character in a meaningful way without raising their complexity or price point. The 2014 versions of CHI Laval and CHI Cragger feel like a definite upgrade from the 2013 versions, despite slightly lower piece counts (mostly due to Laval's simplified claws and Cragger's simplified weapon), slightly reduced height, and the CHI Laval set already having elegant gold armor in the 2013 version.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Aanchir

[Chro]

I do wonder how the implications of the new contest will affect the story.

I severely doubt that an upcoming villain's appearance will be decided by a contest among fans, but I would not be surprised if the winning entry ended up as a shapeshifted body for the MOUP, or something to that effect.

[arc]

I'm really liking LOSS's design. The state of this forum, not so much.

as am I. I guess I can see why some wouldn't like it though. Speaking of LoSS, does anyone know how the shells attach to his legs?

[Kalhiki]

as am I. I guess I can see why some wouldn't like it though. Speaking of LoSS, does anyone know how the shells attach to his legs?

I'd imagine this piece:

http://brickset.com/parts/6001085

[Chro]

Probably those - or, if not, just balljoints and pins.

[Nekchir]

You know what really sucks? The only way you could ever get those solid gold masks we seen at the NYCC, is to be a pro MOCist.

Oh well. At least I have my clear Hau.