Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Dorek]

The heck are you even talking about now? Did we suddenly swap bodies?

"and if they don't show an uncorrupted version"

Wait, what? They've never shown a corrupted version in the first place, which is what I've been arguing the entire time. There is no evidence, whatsoever, to support the idea that we will ever get a corrupted version of the Mask of Control. That's the long and the short of it at this point in time. Makuta was not wearing the Mask of Control when he put on the Mask of Ultimate Power, it was not corrupted. Even at the end of the trailer, it is shown in the condition we saw it throughout the trailer. They only used the effect on the MoUP to make it look scary and freaky, like the Overlord Walker in NINJAGO. I have said this before, and I will say it again: The Mask of Ultimate Power is the only known mask to fit the description of the shadowy mask in the background of the promos we've seen. This is a common tactic used to clearly show the villain, we understand that the MoUP is the face of villainy and thus the only one to logically show unless a new mask is revealed.

Also, in a court room, if there is no evidence to convict someone of murder, the person will not be jailed or fined. This is the same situation (except no one died). There is no evidence to support the idea that the mask in the promos is a corrupted MoCo, and there IS evidence to support that it's the MoUP.

TL;DR: There is no evidence to support the idea that the MoCo was corrupted with Makuta.

Anyway, I like that BZP is doing an unboxing, but they probably should have done a mini-review of the box too.

edit: good grief how did I miss them looking over it?

Right, but by that logic, we're going to get a maskless Makuta as a set; at the very end of The Legend Animation we have Makuta and Ekimu wearing no masks. If we're going by purely what we've seen and with no interpretation or speculation, we have a disembodied mask as the main villain. That doesn't sound particularly exciting to me.

I'm not saying it WON'T be Makuta wearing the Mask of ultimate power; that obviously has so come into play somehow, although how it works is likely the summer story. But to deny any other interpretations just because they don't fit the most obvious viewpoint isn't thinking critically about anything. Theories are supported by facts, not the other way around.

Maybe the Makuta set will include both a black and gold Mask of Control, a la the current scheme with the Master sets. That way it would be possible to MOC a version of Makuta pre-corruption.

Oooh, I like the sound of that. I still like my idea of an uncorrupted version, but that's perhaps less feasible. Would be smart to include both versions in one set...

[gedren_y]

This video is supremely popular. It took me four tries before it would even play. A little anti-climactic for me.

Given the contraction style, Makuta could come with the shells and masks to make both versions. Then Ekimu could come with the forge, or a number of masks he has made.

[Logan McOwen]

Best. MOC. Ever. This needs to become a set.

Here's what Ekimu could look like with a gearbox :

Fantastic design! Exactly what I envisioned!

Also, those boxes <3

Edited November 4, 2014 by LewiMOC

[Aanchir]

The boxes are cool designs, but the one I received to review for The New Elementary left me somewhat disappointed. It was shipped in a padded envelope rather than a cardboard box, so the package inside the envelope arrived with some considerable damage. Thanks to a tear and various creases it doesn't actually like to stand upright or hold its shape.

The parts and instructions were in fine condition, and so my review should be able to take place as planned. And to be honest, I would normally just blame this on carelessness during shipping and not on faults with the package design itself. But then I remember that the Hero Factory and Legends of Chima sets I've won from BZPower and Eurobricks all arrived in padded envelopes, and in pristine condition at that, and I realize it will now be harder than ever for the new packages to actually live up to the flexible foil pouches in my eyes.

Like the pouches, the new boxes are a distinctive shape, with beautiful graphics on every surface and the ability to collapse flat (though since mine was damaged to begin with, I can't really attest to how well they can be reused as storage afterward). Also, like the pouches, producing them presumably requires a low carbon footprint. Those features alone definitely set them above classic canisters in my eyes. But they already seem weaker than the foil pouches in one significant capacity, and I can't help but be a bit disappointed.

EDIT: I've unfolded the box and left it under some heavy books in hopes of flattening out some of the creases. Hopefully in a few hours I will be able to fold it back into shape and it might actually be able to stand upright like it's supposed to.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Aanchir

[arc]

I was worried about something like that happening, but I'm likely to buy most in store, so hopefully it isn't an issue. Might I ask what set they sent you?

[Nekchir]

I could care less if they're boxes or pouches, actually. I usually just throw the packaging out anyways, despite them having 'good' art or not.

They take up too much space and make my room look trashy.

Edited November 4, 2014 by MonkeyChud

[GK733]

Oh damn. I love those carboard boxes.

I was worried about them being too large but they are actually pretty thin.

[Leewan]

Fantastic design! Exactly what I envisioned!

Thanks, glad you like it !

But then I remember that the Hero Factory and Legends of Chima sets I've won from BZPower and Eurobricks all arrived in padded envelopes, and in pristine condition at that, and I realize it will now be harder than ever for the new packages to actually live up to the flexible foil pouches in my eyes.

It's no surprise that a cardboard box is more likely to be damaged than a flexible pouch when shipped in a padded envelope, and I think it has nothing to do with the packaging itself, but rather the shipment method. Plus, it's not specific to BIONICLE boxes.

[Kalhiki]

I agree with Leewan. It's definitely a shipping issue. Sorry to hear about your bad luck though, Aanch.

Luckily, retail shipments are in a big cardboard box, so there should be no problems with bad packaging once the sets hit stores.

[DuckBricks]

The boxes are cool designs, but the one I received to review for The New Elementary left me somewhat disappointed. It was shipped in a padded envelope rather than a cardboard box, so the package inside the envelope arrived with some considerable damage. Thanks to a tear and various creases it doesn't actually like to stand upright or hold its shape.

The parts and instructions were in fine condition, and so my review should be able to take place as planned. And to be honest, I would normally just blame this on carelessness during shipping and not on faults with the package design itself. But then I remember that the Hero Factory and Legends of Chima sets I've won from BZPower and Eurobricks all arrived in padded envelopes, and in pristine condition at that, and I realize it will now be harder than ever for the new packages to actually live up to the flexible foil pouches in my eyes.

Like the pouches, the new boxes are a distinctive shape, with beautiful graphics on every surface and the ability to collapse flat (though since mine was damaged to begin with, I can't really attest to how well they can be reused as storage afterward). Also, like the pouches, producing them presumably requires a low carbon footprint. Those features alone definitely set them above classic canisters in my eyes. But they already seem weaker than the foil pouches in one significant capacity, and I can't help but be a bit disappointed.

EDIT: I've unfolded the box and left it under some heavy books in hopes of flattening out some of the creases. Hopefully in a few hours I will be able to fold it back into shape and it might actually be able to stand upright like it's supposed to.

Any other story hints in the manuals?

[Aanchir]

Any other story hints in the manuals?

Nothing besides a very slightly extended version of the comic from the back of the box (with an additional panel at the beginning and an additional panel at the end).

[Mandate]

The shadowy face in the background here certainly supports the idea. It matches what we saw of the Mask of Control in the animation, and is clearly black in an image comprised of renders of official products. I really want the Makuta set to be gold and purple, but I don't find it particularly likely thanks to this. All things considered, LEGO very likely would be remiss to make a purple and gold main villain that isn't very clearly 'evil' in his appearance.

No it isn't. And no it doesn't. The MoCo is gold, not black. Why show it in black? The ridges on the black mask do not match up with the ridges on the MoCo, even allowing for artistic license. And I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Your last statement relevant to the MoCo is entirely dependent on the idea that your theory is right.

Also, we had a gold and black villain (who heavily used purple CGI effects) this year in NINJAGO.

Right, but by that logic, we're going to get a maskless Makuta as a set; at the very end of The Legend Animation we have Makuta and Ekimu wearing no masks. If we're going by purely what we've seen and with no interpretation or speculation, we have a disembodied mask as the main villain. That doesn't sound particularly exciting to me.

I'm not saying it WON'T be Makuta wearing the Mask of ultimate power; that obviously has so come into play somehow, although how it works is likely the summer story. But to deny any other interpretations just because they don't fit the most obvious viewpoint isn't thinking critically about anything. Theories are supported by facts, not the other way around.

We're not going to get a maskless Makuta, I never stated that. LEGO doesn't release the sets without masks, it would be pointless. What I WAS arguing, was that when we get a Makuta set, if we get a Makuta set, it will have the Mask of Ultimate Power. This mask is the one most associated with Makuta, it is the "ultimate" weapon. Hence why we would see Makuta wearing a MoUP, and hence why we would see a shady MoUP in promotional stuff. It's like how we will likely see Ekimu with the Mask of Control.

Also, the "disembodied mask as the main villain" requires speculation. It requires you to have speculated on the hierarchy of villains and adapt accordingly, even though the idea that the MoUP is the main villain goes contrary to what we know. In an article (on Brickjournal, I believe? Internet is slow, sorry.) it states that Makuta is rematerializing. So yes, that requires speculation and no full analysis of what we do know. (just minor nitpicking, sorry)

I am basing all of what I have said on fact. I am basing all of what I have said on what we have seen. I have used these facts to construct a theory. My theory does not contradict what we have seen. Yours however, does. We have not seen a corrupted/black MoCo. We have not seen any evidence that the MoCo will be corrupted. And if you are correct, and the Mask of Control is the one in the background is the Mask of Control (which is circular reasoning, might I add. It's the Mask of Control, so therefore it's the Mask of Control) and it is indeed corrupted, why isn't the Mask of Creation corrupted too?

There is no basis, no fact, no idea or anything to support that we will get a corrupted Mask of Control. That is the long and the short of it. We may get one eventually, but there is no evidence, whatsoever, to support the idea behind a corrupted Mask of Control. Everything we have seen does not match up with this idea. The Mask of Control is not black, the Mask of Ultimate Power is. And storywise theories (though they are not fact) and tropes indicate that Makuta would go after the Mask of Ultimate Power first. The Mask of Ultimate Power is the one most associated with villainy, and therefore the one to most associate the villain with.

Look, I'm tired of arguing the same points over and over with you. When we see the second wave of BIONICLE, we'll know who's right.

EDIT: Aanchir, when can we expect this review? Any chance you could describe what the instruction manual background looks like?

Edited November 4, 2014 by JayWalker

[InfurnallDragon]

I'd like to request that anyone doing a review with the official sets please show all the parts out of their plastic bags, and maybe arranged neatly so we can see each one. I really like when reviewers do this because it allows us to see every component in the set, rather than just the highlights. Its really helpful for parts hunting for MoCs and such.

[DuckBricks]

Nothing besides a very slightly extended version of the comic from the back of the box (with an additional panel at the beginning and an additional panel at the end).

Oh, darn. That's ok... Could you post images of the back of the manuals? I would very much like to see the comics and perhaps combiners and website ads...

[Dorek]

No it isn't. And no it doesn't. The MoCo is gold, not black. Why show it in black? The ridges on the black mask do not match up with the ridges on the MoCo, even allowing for artistic license. And I'm sorry, what are you talking about? Your last statement relevant to the MoCo is entirely dependent on the idea that your theory is right.

Also, we had a gold and black villain (who heavily used purple CGI effects) this year in NINJAGO.

We're not going to get a maskless Makuta, I never stated that. LEGO doesn't release the sets without masks, it would be pointless. What I WAS arguing, was that when we get a Makuta set, if we get a Makuta set, it will have the Mask of Ultimate Power. This mask is the one most associated with Makuta, it is the "ultimate" weapon. Hence why we would see Makuta wearing a MoUP, and hence why we would see a shady MoUP in promotional stuff. It's like how we will likely see Ekimu with the Mask of Control.

Also, the "disembodied mask as the main villain" requires speculation. It requires you to have speculated on the hierarchy of villains and adapt accordingly, even though the idea that the MoUP is the main villain goes contrary to what we know. In an article (on Brickjournal, I believe? Internet is slow, sorry.) it states that Makuta is rematerializing. So yes, that requires speculation and no full analysis of what we do know. (just minor nitpicking, sorry)

I am basing all of what I have said on fact. I am basing all of what I have said on what we have seen. I have used these facts to construct a theory. My theory does not contradict what we have seen. Yours however, does. We have not seen a corrupted/black MoCo. We have not seen any evidence that the MoCo will be corrupted. And if you are correct, and the Mask of Control is the one in the background is the Mask of Control (which is circular reasoning, might I add. It's the Mask of Control, so therefore it's the Mask of Control) and it is indeed corrupted, why isn't the Mask of Creation corrupted too?

There is no basis, no fact, no idea or anything to support that we will get a corrupted Mask of Control. That is the long and the short of it. We may get one eventually, but there is no evidence, whatsoever, to support the idea behind a corrupted Mask of Control. Everything we have seen does not match up with this idea. The Mask of Control is not black, the Mask of Ultimate Power is. And storywise theories (though they are not fact) and tropes indicate that Makuta would go after the Mask of Ultimate Power first. The Mask of Ultimate Power is the one most associated with villainy, and therefore the one to most associate the villain with.

Look, I'm tired of arguing the same points over and over with you. When we see the second wave of BIONICLE, we'll know who's right.

EDIT: Aanchir, when can we expect this review? Any chance you could describe what the instruction manual background looks like?

Technically the MoUP is reddish in color; again, any theory could very easily be right. But you're denying other possibilities simply because you seem to like your own interpretation the best. Other people also think the mask also could resemble the MoCo, so the only real "argument" is that you don't seem to think so.

It's not a matter of seeing who's right or who's wrong; we're just trying to have fun thinking of different ways the story will go. Very likely it will be in a way nobody expected.

I'd like to request that anyone doing a review with the official sets please show all the parts out of their plastic bags, and maybe arranged neatly so we can see each one. I really like when reviewers do this because it allows us to see every component in the set, rather than just the highlights. Its really helpful for parts hunting for MoCs and such.

BZP usually does, but I don't know how early we'll be seeing their reviews this/next year.

(would be nice, though!)

[dviddy]

I never take that photo because I think it's a waste of time. Sorry, when I do my review for BZP it probably won't have that shot. It'll have a "new and interesting parts" photo, though!

[Nekchir]

B6 said he just has to send the sets to the reviewers and they'll get reviewed right away. So I assume within a week or so we should see the review on BZP.

[Kalhiki]

Technically the MoUP is reddish in color

Actually, we don't know for certain what color the MoUP is. Throughout the animation, it's blacked out in shadow with reddish flames, but whether or not those red flames are indicative of the mask's color remains to be seen.

But that's getting ridiculously technical...

While on the subject, I actually think it'd be cool if the flames were actually part of the mask. Having something like the Protectors' masks with a trans and opaque blend would be sweet. Black mask blended with trans red flames? <3

(also, I find it neat that it has six spikes coming off it. Made from six elements: has six spikes. May be a coincidence, but I think it's cool)

[TheDesuComplex]

Everytime I see the MoUP power I can only think of one thing: Vultraz's mask with an anime-esque evil flame.

[Nekchir]

It's here!

[TheGreatSpirit]

It's here!

Looks like the app is confirmed! And oh my, Kopaka is glorious...

[Mandate]

Technically the MoUP is reddish in color; again, any theory could very easily be right. But you're denying other possibilities simply because you seem to like your own interpretation the best. Other people also think the mask also could resemble the MoCo, so the only real "argument" is that you don't seem to think so.

First of all, no it isn't. Second of all, no they couldn't. I'm denying other possibilities because they are so far out-flung from the truth. We have not seen any confirmation, whatsoever, not even a hint that we will see the idea of a corrupted MoCo come to fruition. Maybe at some point in the future, but there is no evidence whatsoever. Also, for the idea that the black mask in the promo artwork is the MoCo, I've done some outlines on the Masks.

Not my finest work, and the top-left hand image of the MoCo is rather inaccurate, mainly due to not noticing certain things and MS Paint being hard to work with, just ignore most of that one. The contours on it are way too far out on it as well. The MoCr image is just to provide a reference for how accurate the animations are to their counterparts. The animations aren't super-duper accurate, but they're accurate enough to tell that the black mask and the MoCo are two very different masks.

Anyway, glad to see that BZP's review is up. Hoping they'll scan the Instruction pages so that we can better see the artwork, the sort-of-poster with all 6 Toa, the combiner, etc.

EDIT: Gah, sorry, didn't notice the MoCr image is low quality, I accidentally saved it as .jpeg and didn't notice until now. I was running out of time to make it at the time, so there's a few errors as well (part of the circle outline is now black, and I forgot to outline the eye holes on the animated version)

Edited November 5, 2014 by JayWalker

[Chimaninja454]

Looks like the app is confirmed! And oh my, Kopaka is glorious...

You're right....

[arc]

At the last page of the instructions, it has a green ninja on the "win" page. I think this is finally the end of that screaming kid on the back of the instructions!

[Chro]

At the last page of the instructions, it has a green ninja on the "win" page. I think this is finally the end of that screaming kid on the back of the instructions!