Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Dorek]

Nah, it was pretty big in Europe too, and the Asian market as well. Not sure how well they stack up against one another, but those are the best performing ones.

[Ikkad555]

Doi, I thought for a moment there that those Chima chibis were actual sets. Had to take a close look at the 'Lego' logo there.

Does anyone else think we might get a new regular hand piece next year? Tahu's finger's look too thick to be a representation of the CCBS hand, and looks more proportionate than any of the hands we've gotten, really. I don't recall seeing any Hero Factory promotional material with open hands though, excluding the TV episodes and a few select images on the website, and definitely not on endcaps like this. Could this mean that not only are we getting a new hand, but also have it be proportional and articulated?

Alternately, it could be our first indication that yes, BIONICLE 2015 is getting a CGI movie or series, because the only time I do recall there being open hands in constraction imagery was in 2009, when the hand piece was first introduced.

[Bob C]

He doesn't have to say "allegedly". Whether he's right or wrong, everyone can tell he's alleging it. :P

Anyway, here's a Matoran MOC I designed! It's 21 pieces and stands 10 centimeters tall, so should be fairly well-proportioned next to a 7 inch/18 centimeter Toa. I think he'd be a good $5 set once you add tools/weapons:

Haha...a matoran built with the modern system looks...weird.

[Aethersprite]

Doi, I thought for a moment there that those Chima chibis were actual sets. Had to take a close look at the 'Lego' logo there.

Does anyone else think we might get a new regular hand piece next year? Tahu's finger's look too thick to be a representation of the CCBS hand, and looks more proportionate than any of the hands we've gotten, really. I don't recall seeing any Hero Factory promotional material with open hands though, excluding the TV episodes and a few select images on the website, and definitely not on endcaps like this. Could this mean that not only are we getting a new hand, but also have it be proportional and articulated?

Alternately, it could be our first indication that yes, BIONICLE 2015 is getting a CGI movie or series, because the only time I do recall there being open hands in constraction imagery was in 2009, when the hand piece was first introduced.

I think a new dedicated hand piece with articulated fingers has been due for a long, long time. Sure, there are many brickbuilt alternatives, but I'm sure it's something fans (non-MOCists like me, especially) have been clamouring for for a long while.

[Kalhiki]

There was absolutely nothing in the early years making BIONICLE markedly more mature than Ninjago. Have you forgotten Taipu's stupidity, or Hafu's absurd ego, or Tamaru's fear of heights, or Pewku's job as a "Taxi Crab", or the time Pohatu got a bunch of goats magnetized to him, or the various other gags that filled the Mata Nui Online Game and Bohrok/Bohrok-Kal Online Animations? How about the little "who's on first?" routine that the guards of every village did in the "Tales of the Tohunga/Quest for the Toa" game for Game Boy Advance? Clearly, not only does lighthearted humor work for BIONICLE, but I dare say in some cases it actually improves it.

This. THIS! We need more this.

Period. End of story.

And more stuff like the whole Huki x Maku relationship. I think it was later said that it was non-canon, but I don't care. I loved it, and it was cute.

[Mr. Gundam]

For the hand piece: I just thought it was "artistic license" on the current hand mold. But chima did open that door, one of the Eurobrick members made a topic about the chima hand holding its tools more accurately. It was really clever design. TLG could make something similar but wouldn't it add more unnecessary pieces??

[Chro]

I'm not trying to be a jerk here or anything, but the leaker did leak that right? Doesn't that mean he already took the risk into account and wants it out there anyway?

Edit: dat filter

Complicated situation - he showed the images first to a close group of friends, allowed the display image to go around a bit, then someone who wasn't supposed to see the other image did, and spread that one around too - the other image is more dangerous for the leaker because it could be used by his employers to link him to the leak, in theory

Overlord, by quoting the post you have linked to it, please remove that

[TheGreatSpirit]

Complicated situation - he showed the images first to a close group of friends, allowed the display image to go around a bit, then someone who wasn't supposed to see the other image did, and spread that one around too - the other image is more dangerous for the leaker because it could be used by his employers to link him to the leak, in theory

Overlord, by quoting the post you have linked to it, please remove that

Just a bit of curiousity, what on the second image could get her/him fired? I saw somewhere saying it was something about the numbers on it, but TBH it was so blurry I couldn't make out anything other than colors

EDIT:

Nah, it was pretty big in Europe too, and the Asian market as well. Not sure how well they stack up against one another, but those are the best performing ones.

Well, in Asia it was pretty big... at least, the bootlegs were. Even now I see more Hero Factory knockoffs at large departmant stores than legit Hero Factory sets.

Edited July 11, 2014 by TheGreatSpirit

[Voxovan]

I think the actual hands are ok, but it wish they made a new ones, something like the ones from those Ninjago Ultrabuild knock-offs posted here some time ago,which allowed you to put an axle through the entire hand, or something like that (it's really hard to explain it with my english :P) Anyways I think those pieces would be VERY useful, I don't really know why LEGO hasn't already made something like that.

[TheOneVeyronian]

Count me in for someone that wants new hand pieces with articulate fingers and axle holes too. The current CCBS hands only really look good when they're holding stuff in my opinion, and I've recently switched to using brick built hands on my sigfig and other MOC's because, more often than not, many of my MOC's never hold weapons. The problem then is that it's extremely hard for them to hold anything without having to resort to blue tack or something like that. So I'm all in favour of getting a new hand piece that offers the best of both worlds. Something a bit like in this concept sketch I did would be great.

But thinking about it, LEGO has given us 2 types of feet (in case anyone's not familiar with them, which I doubt, it's this one and this one) with the capability of having articulated toes this year, so I'm willing to bet that there's a new articulate hand in the pipeline too

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Count me in for someone that wants new hand pieces with articulate fingers and axle holes too. The current CCBS hands only really look good when they're holding stuff in my opinion, and I've recently switched to using brick built hands on my sigfig and other MOC's because, more often than not, many of my MOC's never hold weapons. The problem then is that it's extremely hard for them to hold anything without having to resort to blue tack or something like that. So I'm all in favour of getting a new hand piece that offers the best of both worlds. Something a bit like in this concept sketch I did would be great.

But thinking about it, LEGO has given us 2 types of feet (in case anyone's not familiar with them, which I doubt, it's this one and this one) with the capability of having articulated toes this year, so I'm willing to bet that there's a new articulate hand in the pipeline too

Oh please yes. I would totally be down for a hand like that.

[Shakar]

I wouldn't call them CCBS hands since they've been around since the Glatorian (HF just perfected them) but yeah, I agree. I wrote something about that in the HF topic. The clunky hands on the Summer Beasts just confirm that we need new hands with poseable fingers. Really, fingers and waist articulation are the last two major steps dividing the constraction sets from perfection.

[Aanchir]

For the hand piece: I just thought it was "artistic license" on the current hand mold. But chima did open that door, one of the Eurobrick members made a topic about the chima hand holding its tools more accurately. It was really clever design. TLG could make something similar but wouldn't it add more unnecessary pieces??

Not really; no more than the locking clamps on the Brain Attack heroes. Honestly it could be kind of cool! But I'm not going to get my hopes up too much. If we do get articulated hands, awesome. If not, I'm perfectly fine with the fist pieces we have currently. They're pretty nicely proportioned.

[TheOneVeyronian]

Really, fingers and waist articulation are the last two major steps dividing the constraction sets from perfection.

Just out of interest, what were you thinking in terms of waist articulation? In theory, both Evo XL Machine and the Queen Beast have a rudimentary form of waist articulation (though the XL Machine's one is more articulate I dare say). I guess you mean full waist articulation (left to right and up to down), like a massive ball joint maybe? That would definitely be interesting to see though

[Aanchir]

Just out of interest, what were you thinking in terms of waist articulation? In theory, both Evo XL Machine and the Queen Beast have a rudimentary form of waist articulation (though the XL Machine's one is more articulate I dare say). I guess you mean full waist articulation (left to right and up to down), like a massive ball joint maybe? That would definitely be interesting to see though

Full waist articulation can be tricky, even in MOCs. I've tried to come up with designs for CCBS parts with waist articulation. This is the best I could come up with, and then Front explained to me why the center piece wouldn't work.

Even though some people feel the current Hero Factory torso beams are rather large and awkward, frankly there aren't a whole lot of alternatives that don't cut down on the number of usable connection points, or result in two awkwardly-shaped beams instead of one. I honestly don't know how much chance there is of us ever seeing waist articulation become standard on smaller models.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Aanchir

[TheOneVeyronian]

Full waist articulation can be tricky, even in MOCs. I've tried to come up with designs for CCBS parts with waist articulation. This is the best I could come up with, and then Front explained to me why the center piece wouldn't work.

Interesting concept even if it wouldn't work (probably due to part strength, a lot of connections in a small part), and I agree that waist articulation is a tricky business while still maintaining good connection points. The only time I've ever made something with something close to full waist articulation (and was capable of replicating most of the human articulation points) was this (and that was by accident, which is why I didn't show it off in that topic), but that uses two XT4 torsos and two short cup-cup beams. It makes it a very tall and skinny torso which would require extra parts to bulk out, so yes, we're not going to see compact solutions from LEGO anytime soon. We'll see fully articulate hands way before fully articulate waists.

I did think of a solution using the 3x3 turret joints and new torso pieces that could accept axles or the turret joint (like a torso with this moulded onto it?), but again, it's probably too cumbersome and fragile to work. I haven't sketched it, but I might do if one needs help visualising what I'm on about

But anyway, back to the topic at hand... I'm still interested to see what a rebooted or revamped Bionicle in CCBS could give us in terms of new and recoloured parts - that's probably the bit I get most excited about with constraction

[Mr. Gundam]

Not to be a downer, but i would shoot down the waist articulation too. Most of the humanoid sets are top heavy. It reminds me of the complain that all the toa look too uniform and thought it work great that way (easier to make your own version). TheOneVeyronian, i like the concept hand you drew. I was thinking put an cross axle hole through the palm of hand but im not sure how you add fingers.

[TheOneVeyronian]

Not to be a downer, but i would shoot down the waist articulation too. Most of the humanoid sets are top heavy. It reminds me of the complain that all the toa look too uniform and thought it work great that way (easier to make your own version). TheOneVeyronian, i like the concept hand you drew. I was thinking put an cross axle hole through the palm of hand but im not sure how you add fingers.

You're not being a downer at all, it all falls down to the laws of physics and part engineering. Full waist articulation in any way probably wouldn't stand up to constant play and any ball joint holding up a large load would eventually sag and droop, even the high friction joint extenders (as I'm finding while trying to work on the Titan in my signature). The 3x3 turret solution is probably the worst for this, the connection loses friction pretty quickly.

And my concept hand, that is based on inspiration for a hybrid of the current fisted hand and my favourite brick built hand solution such as the one used here. Basically, I imagined how the fisted hand part would look like with the fingers "un-fisted" as it were, and added bars where the robot arms so commonly used as fingers could attach (in place of the static moulded fingers). I only added ports for 3 fingers and a thumb as I thought 4 fingers made the concept hand look a bit "fat" (based on how my brick built solution looks with 4 fingers). You could add an axle hole to my concept instead of the part that looks reminiscent of this Technic connector, but if it were a real part, it would either have to be lengthened out of proportion or the axle hole would compromise the structural and probably functional integrity of the part around the ball cup.

[Aanchir]

A while back I started building some of the Hero Factory combi models from 2012 on LDD, and I just decided on a whim to resume that project. Some of them are some really beautiful designs, but they do bring to mind one other thing I hope for in a revived BIONICLE. I'd LOVE if all the combi models had names and story roles, like the classic BIONICLE ones did (most of them, anyway — strangely, the alternate models for the large sets of 2002 didn't really have names of their own).

[Ikkad555]

The problem then is that it's extremely hard for them to hold anything without having to resort to blue tack or something like that. So I'm all in favour of getting a new hand piece that offers the best of both worlds. Something a bit like in this concept sketch I did would be great.

But thinking about it, LEGO has given us 2 types of feet (in case anyone's not familiar with them, which I doubt, it's this one and this one) with the capability of having articulated toes this year, so I'm willing to bet that there's a new articulate hand in the pipeline too

That sketch of yours was on my mind when I took notice of the Tahu image. It's a real nice idea, but I don't think we'd see any articulated hand piece looking quite like that. Judging by the designs of both of the Beast feet pieces, and even the Brain Attack head, it appears that the only way a palm with bars would work is if the divisions between the bars were thicker. That's just judging by the pieces that also have thick ball cups, though. Despite there being plenty of pieces with horizontal bar connections both in and out of CCBS, none of them really have as much pressure put on them as the ones with thick ball cups.

Of course, it's possible that such a design would still be sound despite that, and a similar palm piece would have to be employed in order to give Tahu the kind of hand he has in the image.

A while back I started building some of the Hero Factory combi models from 2012 on LDD, and I just decided on a whim to resume that project. Some of them are some really beautiful designs, but they do bring to mind one other thing I hope for in a revived BIONICLE. I'd LOVE if all the combi models had names and story roles, like the classic BIONICLE ones did (most of them, anyway — strangely, the alternate models for the large sets of 2002 didn't really have names of their own).

The combi models were always impressive to me. Whenever I saw those images, and the broken-up instructions at the ends of the booklets I'm amazed at how the BIONICLE pieces -- most of which I hadn't considered using creatively -- that made up the canister sets could become these creatures that still looked really good. My favorites will always be the Kranua, formed by Nuurakh, Vorzakh and Rorzakh whose appearance was imposing; and every single small box combo.

I was utterly horrified when I saw what they had made out of the 2010 Heroes..

[Lord-Vorahk]

So I basically joined the site just to post in this topic after lurking since the leak.

Yes, I've experimented with ball-jointed waists, and they do eventually lose friction in heavier models, at least, the ones using these do. My Self-MOC (which I'll upload once I can get a good camera), however, uses these two parts and has remained sturdy since late 2009. Maybe the solution to this in a more practical sense would be some kind of ratcheting joint? TLG has used them before, the closest example being, I think, Exo-Force. Using these would allow them to pose at the waist while still maintaining stability.

However, something worth noting is that CCBS sets, at least of the standard HF size, look a lot better without waist articulation than later-year canister-scale Bionicle sets, and the same is true of the Avotoran builds. I look at my Tanma set (When his limbs haven't all fallen apart, that is), and he's just fine without a waist joint. I look at, say, Ackar, and he looks kinda awkward.

I'm already loving the hand sketch idea, looks awesome and functional. And it could be pretty universal: 'Villains' add the Viking horns, Toa leave them blank or use opaque Barraki eyes. Or you could use the HF claws that came on Core Hunter as a substitute for some sets.

My only beef with decreasing the size is that a lot of the older masks like the Olmak, Kraakhan, and Ignika are going to look really oversized on new sets. You could argue that it's okay, because they fit best on larger-scale characters, but for MOCing and playability's sake, it's bothering me a bit.

Also, got to agree with plot-relevant combiners. Yes, Stars gave us Gaardus, but that was a competition thing and his entrance and exit were so abrupt that the only surprise is that Greg didn't find some way to kill him off. Hell, I'm not even sure what size he's supposed to be. Is he to scale with his parts? Is he to scale with the 2006-2009 sets? Is he still Matoran-sized? Hell, screw just plot-relevant combiners, I want actual Kaita.

As for other things I want: No Glatorian and Agori. They were just less interesting than Toa and Matoran, with the whole "No powers unless Mata Nui headbutts your weapons" thing. and the fact that they're meant to be organic with cyborg implants isn't represented well by constraction sets. Looking at the various Ultrabuilds, from both Chima and Superheroes, they just look like robots with weirdly organic heads.

Some variation in Toa Teams: Fire, Air, Ice, Water, Stone, and Earth are great. However, Earth and Stone have a lot of overlap, especially after plant control got turned into its own element, whereas it's often the realm of Earth users. Added that we've got plenty of elements with no plastic representations yet... Remove either Earth or Stone, and replace with something else that hasn't had a set like Iron, or my personal favourite, Plasma.

A tone similar to the DCAU: Being my favourite animated series, I tend to take a little inspiration from Justice League, and I think it sort of fits.

[TheGreatSpirit]

I highly doubt that Lego would make an articulated hand the size of a regular one; Im almost 100% certain that Tahus hand reaching the mask, in photo 1, is just CGI and a bit of artistic liberties, like the Mata "bending" their arms and legs on the canister art.

[Lord-Vorahk]

I highly doubt that Lego would make an articulated hand the size of a regular one; Im almost 100% certain that Tahus hand reaching the mask, in photo 1, is just CGI and a bit of artistic liberties, like the Mata "bending" their arms and legs on the canister art.

That's true, but we can dream, right?

[Shakar]

I meant full waist articulation, yes.

The main problem seems like it'd be the upper torso falling down (which is what many people complained getting on Pridak, though I personally never got that issue), yes. That would require a completely new upper torso and waist pieces, one of them ending in a ball joint and the other incorporating a high friction socket joint into them (basically like the friction joint extenders 2012 introduced). That's what I'd do.

Nice Matoran, Aanchir! The arms seem a bit too stiff to me though. Maybe you should add the shortest bone between those and the shoulders? Also, I'd remove the robot arms on his feet- the toes on the foot piece (Jaw Beast's feet are spot on BTW) are enough IMO.

[Dorek]

Pridak was pretty top-heavy, and was deliberately required to pose hunched over anyway because of the way the fin blade was incorporated, so it's not surprising he ended up the way he did.

Honestly, I'd be perfectly okay if we started with just 180 degree waist movement before trying for a whole sphere of articulation.