Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[TheBrickPal]

#ToaFactory

Tahu and Furno are different in every way imaginable. Kopaka and Stormer, however...

[Mesonak]

That picture brought back HF nostalgia.

Hero Factory whyyy ;__;

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Y'all are obviously missing what the Vahi is truly hinting at: Nick Bluetooth!

*is shot*

On a different subject, can someone tell me what color the Protector of Jungle's sensory tails are? (ie. Bright Green, Dark Green or Earth Green) I don't have access to the picture atm.

[Mesonak]

On a different subject, can someone tell me what color the Protector of Jungle's sensory tails are? (ie. Bright Green, Dark Green or Earth Green) I don't have access to the picture atm.

None of the above; his tails are lime green.

[Kalhiki]

Speaking of the Protectors, is anyone kinda bummed at how little publicity they seem to be getting? I mean, I understand that the Toa should get most of the character development, but the Protectors have little to nothing, and that makes me kinda sad.

Hopefully, with the next animation being "Protectors fight back" they'll get some more spotlight.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Thanks Mesonak!

Yeah, I also wish the Protectors were getting more publicity.

[TheDesuComplex]

I am hoping that the Protectors do receive some development. Even if they do not become fully fleshed out characters, I at least would like to see something like the Toa's quirks. Perhaps they can be walking along and the Ice Protector hits a tree limb because he has bad eyesight. The part in Episode 3 showing the Stone Protector tired and worn is another example of what I am talking about.

[Aanchir]

I'm just going to say one thing. Time COULD mean time travel. It could ALSO mean as lot of other things. Could mean the new timeline diverged from the old as a result of some event in this continuity. Could mean some temporal catastrophe in the old timeline rewrote all of history, and we're seeing the new rewritten history. Could mean the Toa ARE time travelers, but from another point in this NEW continuity rather than any point in the old continuity. But everybody seems to assume time equals time travel and that time travel in turn means the Toa must be temporal immigrants from the OLD continuity.

As for the "half a mask" thing, maybe it WILL be established that the old Vahi was unfinished and that's where this timeline diverged. But it does not at all imply that there are two halves that are supposed to go together.

If I wrote half a book and we learned that there would one day be a finished book, that wouldn't mean that somewhere in the world is another half-written book that fits together with mine like a pair of puzzle pieces.

And that's what bugs me — not the idea that the old Vahi MIGHT not have been complete (because it would certainly explain its utter stupidity from a practical standpoint), but the idea that the only way for a complete Mask of Time to exist is putting an incomplete one together with another equally incomplete one that also exists. Why can't the complete Mask of Time have been CREATED whole in the first place?

I guess this was more than one thing.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Aanchir

[dviddy]

I certainly think the current evidence is loose still, but I think people are taking Darth Vader and Bzpowers authority as a source of fact, over and above the facts themselves

If anything everything factual points it not to be a new continuity, something which you want everyone to ignore for some odd reason...

Do yourself a favour and watch the

. You only need to pay attention to the first two minutes. One minute and fiffy-five seconds in, the design director says "it's a reboot, so, all the talks and all the speculations, put them aside, it's a reboot."

This is as close to Word of God as you can get on the subject. And it's on video, here for anyone and all to see.

You know what's not on video, or recorded by anyone, anywhere? What we have no proof besides hearsay evidence of? Jordan Paxton saying the "Star Trek" comparison. The "we'll have the whole mask" comment. (I was there for the mask comment, standing right behind the TTV guys, they definitely asked the question, he definitely responded with "remember in the original line we had a guy in the movie make the mask of time, but it was different from the other masks, it was only half of a mask? In this line we will have a whole mask"). That they happened we take for granted (because, again, they did happen), but if you want to say people are taking me at too much authority (by the way, in this photo of the NYCC panel, that's me with the orange sunglasses and beard in the front row, in front of the camera, because I was there.)

The facts themselves are that LEGO has said (repeatedly, if you watch the panel video) that the new line is a reboot. Everything else either of you two is arguing is the ridiculous part. LEGO, the owners, operators, and creators of the line, have already spoken.

So when you're ready to talk facts please do so.

[Phoenix_Flare]

That picture brought back HF nostalgia.

Hero Factory whyyy ;__;

I'm going to miss it too Meso...

BTW did anyone notice that in the Bionicle catalogue(the one w/ the "Skull Mask") that the Okoto map's compass is made up of CCBS and Gurahk staffs. Someone has to build a replica! Also I want LEGO to release that map of Okoto without the Toa and Protector overlays. It looks amazing!

[mysteriouspi]

Some very interesting developments recently. I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said, though I'll throw in my opinion that the mask on the back of the Bionicle pamphlet is probably not the Mask of Ultimate Power.

Probably...

[IllustriousVar]

The Vahi theory simply lacks the evidence for any supportive arguments to be definitive. When we as TTV reported on this information we were tired, excited, and our minds were all over the place at once and its highly possible we misheard something. I personally still believe that our interpretation of what Jordan Paxton said was accurate, but that's all it is. An interpretation. I'd be lying if I said anything we've heard/seen thus far is concrete evidence to support this theory so any attempt to argue otherwise would be trivial.

At this point in time we simply don't know. So the logical thing to do is to simply follow what is actually being presented to us and treat the franchise as a full reboot unless proven otherwise.

However, I do also feel there is no definitive answer either way, and to write off the theory as completely impossible is pretty silly. But for now it should be treated as just a theory and nothing more.

Some very interesting developments recently. I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said, though I'll throw in my opinion that the mask on the back of the Bionicle pamphlet is probably not the Mask of Ultimate Power.

Yeah I doubt they'd reveal the MoUP so early on. Specially since we haven't even seen the Mask of Creation in set form yet.

Edited December 29, 2014 by IllustriousVar

[Mecheon]

The original series is over, finished.

They'll put homages from it into this. The Vahi will undoubtably show up. Heck, old characters from the original might even show up (C'mon Barraki pirates or Malum just showing up for no reason)

But a continuation? Unlikely. We know from what Lego's done previously that they want to stay away from those continuity nightmares. So they'll throw homages in, but they're not going back to do anything else with the original series

[Mandate]

(C'mon Inika build or Vezon just showing up for no reason)

Fixed that for you.

[the last chronicler]

Do yourself a favour and watch the

. You only need to pay attention to the first two minutes. One minute and fiffy-five seconds in, the design director says "it's a reboot, so, all the talks and all the speculations, put them aside, it's a reboot."

This is as close to Word of God as you can get on the subject. And it's on video, here for anyone and all to see.

You know what's not on video, or recorded by anyone, anywhere? What we have no proof besides hearsay evidence of? Jordan Paxton saying the "Star Trek" comparison. The "we'll have the whole mask" comment. (I was there for the mask comment, standing right behind the TTV guys, they definitely asked the question, he definitely responded with "remember in the original line we had a guy in the movie make the mask of time, but it was different from the other masks, it was only half of a mask? In this line we will have a whole mask"). That they happened we take for granted (because, again, they did happen), but if you want to say people are taking me at too much authority (by the way, in this photo of the NYCC panel, that's me with the orange sunglasses and beard in the front row, in front of the camera, because I was there.)

The facts themselves are that LEGO has said (repeatedly, if you watch the panel video) that the new line is a reboot. Everything else either of you two is arguing is the ridiculous part. LEGO, the owners, operators, and creators of the line, have already spoken.

So when you're ready to talk facts please do so.

Wikipedia:

Reboots remove any non-essential elements associated with a franchise by starting the franchise's continuity over and distilling it down to the core elements and concepts. For consumers, reboots allow easier entry for newcomers unfamiliar with earlier titles in a series.

You may certainly be right Darth Vader, and I must admit I forgot about this particular announcement at the beginning of the panel, but I think definition of reboot is nebulous, especially in the context of this being the first official Gen 2 Bionicle announcement. LEGO is stating whether the story continues where we left off or if it is a whole new story, which at the time was the total of fan speculation.

Now we have all these hints, by definition even if including the original Toa memory-wiped or the original Mask of Time the story would be a reboot of BIONICLE because all old plotlines are discarded. As Mesonak said--now I can see why he did based on the context of the panel--this lends more towards LEGO hinting at a connection to Gen 1 but mostly leaving it for fans to piece it together or speculate whether they are the Mata or not.

The pattern of artistic choices in Gen 2 is hinting at the Vahi more and more, and I think to ignore it is ridiculous when LEGO could have used anything else to hint at the concepts of time and space in this new reboot.

Edited December 29, 2014 by the last chronicler

[Mecheon]

Fixed that for you.

You can't fix what was perfect

Malum, man. Still love that design. Still love the lava-claws and the build. Have him and some of the Glatorians show up as an anti-Toa crew. Malum as the bruiser, younger Tuma as the leader, Strakk as the lanky axe wielding fellow, and... Whoever for the other three

it'd work.

[Mandate]

You can't fix what was perfect

Malum, man. Still love that design. Still love the lava-claws and the build. Have him and some of the Glatorians show up as an anti-Toa crew. Malum as the bruiser, younger Tuma as the leader, Strakk as the lanky axe wielding fellow, and... Whoever for the other three

it'd work.

Wow... talk about missing the point

[MakutaOfWar]

If anybody thinks about it, the new mask could be the MoUP, but not on a Makuta set but fallen into the hands of a skull creature most likely Skull Grinder. Similar to how LoSS has that gold skull spider mask.

[GK733]

If anybody thinks about it, the new mask could be the MoUP, but not on a Makuta set but fallen into the hands of a skull creature most likely Skull Grinder. Similar to how LoSS has that gold skull spider mask.

I wasn't sure about it being the MoUP before but now I'm pretty sure.

http://img4.wikia.no...s/a/af/MOUP.jpg

Look at those energy lines coming towards the mask. One is blue and one is red. The mask was crafted from all six elements. Why would a random skullmask of less evil guy have other powers as well? Especially when you can see there are six cracks for six different elements with only two seen and weak lights for the rest.

Edited December 29, 2014 by GK733

[CabooseBM]

Maybe Skull Grinder's Mask is why the sacred law of never using more than one element in a mask was put into place? Just throwing that out there.

[Voxovan]

I wasn't sure about it being the MoUP before but now I'm pretty sure.

http://img4.wikia.no...s/a/af/MOUP.jpg

Look at those energy lines coming towards the mask. One is blue and one is red. The mask was crafted from all six elements. Why would a random skullmask of less evil guy have other powers as well? Especially when you can see there are six cracks for six different elements with only two seen and weak lights for the rest.

But it doesn't have those spikes sticking out of it. It looks nothing like in the animations.

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Sorry to be off-topic and repeating a post.

Any sets spotted in the UK?

[GK733]

But it doesn't have those spikes sticking out of it. It looks nothing like in the animations.

And it is the most obscured thing of a mask ever and possibly was in at conceptual state back then. There are like ten things pointing towards it being the MoUP and and only those spikes saying it isn't. Remeber how they toyed around with the look of Ignika?

I strongly believe that it will go like this:

MoUP has a mind of it's own. after Makuta's defeat it transformed into a spider (that's why the top of the mask actually looks like a skull spider) With the power of the mask LOSS made armies of skull spiders in order to find the masks of power and gain enough elemental power to resurrect Makuta. In summer wave. one way or another LOSS has brought Makuta back to life and transformed back into a mask. Makuta takes the MoUP and becomes a gigantic and powerfull Skull Grinder as seen in the legend animation. The toa have ressurected Ekimu and now these two mask makers battle in the same set. Makuta as transformed into a giant Skull grinder and Ekimu as just the "mask maker" the other skullguys are just some random things either affected by spiders or summoned by Makuta.

And due to this Mask Maker vs Skull Grinder could be the best Bionicle set ever. Featuring two or even more legendary masks (MoUP, MoCr and quite possibly MoCo) , titan Makuta and Ekimu

[Scarilian]

....What does that possibly suggest about a continuity? That's like saying this is similar to how the Toa were posed in Bionicle G1, so they must be future versions of the Toa. It's a nod to the past if anything, or even a reuse of a previous set of vectors. I doubt this is part of a highly elaborate decade-breaking plot.

Similar imagery is intentionally used in that case to sell Hero Factory to fans of Bionicle

In this case, it could be the same, however its more that simply standing in a pose. The type of villains, the cocoons and the green webbing all give a very 'Web Of Shadows' style theme along with the basic idea of all the Skull Spiders/Visorak being controlled by once central villain who has ties to Makuta...

Do yourself a favour and watch the

. You only need to pay attention to the first two minutes. One minute and fiffy-five seconds in, the design director says "it's a reboot, so, all the talks and all the speculations, put them aside, it's a reboot."

This is as close to Word of God as you can get on the subject. And it's on video, here for anyone and all to see.

You know what's not on video, or recorded by anyone, anywhere? What we have no proof besides hearsay evidence of? Jordan Paxton saying the "Star Trek" comparison. The "we'll have the whole mask" comment. (I was there for the mask comment, standing right behind the TTV guys, they definitely asked the question, he definitely responded with "remember in the original line we had a guy in the movie make the mask of time, but it was different from the other masks, it was only half of a mask? In this line we will have a whole mask"). That they happened we take for granted (because, again, they did happen), but if you want to say people are taking me at too much authority (by the way, in this photo of the NYCC panel, that's me with the orange sunglasses and beard in the front row, in front of the camera, because I was there.)

The facts themselves are that LEGO has said (repeatedly, if you watch the panel video) that the new line is a reboot. Everything else either of you two is arguing is the ridiculous part. LEGO, the owners, operators, and creators of the line, have already spoken.

So when you're ready to talk facts please do so.

Its worth noting that several questions during the end of that interview were intentionally warped by the Lego staff to avoid giving a straight answer. Most noteably is at 31:22 when asked the question about potentially having other character from the past such as Takanuva return they responded they didnt have plans to re-release old sets, which was not the question asked. As such the legitimacy of the answers must be taken into question, how much can you trust a company who have lied in the past to cover-up events in the original Bionicle series?

If you were Lego and wanted to cover-up a potential GSR event, surely you would state that its a reboot. Then you could go back on your word in future claiming that it was a different kind of reboot or simply state that its a reboot that can be viewed as a sequel to the previous generation. Mentioning its a reboot doesnt necessarily remove the possibility of it being in-canon from the previous storyline as per Terminator Genisys compared to the other Terminator films.

In recent years their have been tons of examples of 'Reboots' that have kept the previous generation in canon; Terminator Genisys, X-Men Days Of Future Past, Resident Evil; Begins, Evil Dead (2013), G.I.Joe Retaliation, Star Trek, etc...

If we are indeed getting the whole mask of time then showing the Vahi would be ridiculous as it not only links it to the old universe, but it also emphasises the idea that the universes may be connected. If its also a different version of that mask then once again, showing the 'half a mask' version from G1 is silly. Even as an Easter Egg that would be unbeneficial to new fans and would give false hopes for a continuation to fans of the G1 Era.

Then you have to factor in the whole mention of Time Travel... why would the Toa be summoned via Time Travel using the Mask Of Time in the Temple Of Time if the idea of Time isnt important to the story? Granted Time Travel will likely be used in 2016 so they can travel back to the ancient city when it wasnt ancient, yet whats the point of having them come from a different Time at the start of the story? If this was indeed a reboot as Lego keep trying to get us to believe then why would they intentionally write so much to do with Time Travel into the origin.The intentional memory loss of the Toa for instance, memory loss being a plot device used many times so that the information can be revealed at a later stage.

A lot of what has been written recently via Lego seems to imply that the story is a continuation. The only thing we have against it is their word, which isnt entirely trustworthy. I understand a lot of people are just going to accept what Lego state officially as fact, however being someone who grew up with the original generation and knowing what Lego has done in the past to keep thing a secret, i personally dont trust the official word. Especially when the official word complicates the story even more than just acknowledging it as a continuation, it doesnt make sense if we view this series as a reboot, too much similar hints towards it being a continuation (as i've spoken about prior)

Remember these are the same people who told us Bionicle wasnt coming back for several years despite its return being worked on since 2012...

And due to this Mask Maker vs Skull Grinder could be the best Bionicle set ever. Featuring two or even more legendary masks (MoUP, MoCr and quite possibly MoCo) , titan Makuta and Ekimu

From a writing standpoint that would be rather silly of Lego, writing in the possibility of three masks and then giving two or three away in the first year in a single set;

If anything it seems like the intention is to simply have; Ekimu Vs Skull Grinder. This summer mask either being the Skull Grinder's or another one of the Summer Villain sets. The main mask of the set likely being the Mask Of Creation given its overall focus in this years adverts.

Then 2016 would be the Mask Of Creation with Makuta with 2017 being the Mask Of Ultimate Power. Then if the line was popular enough to warrant future years they'd venture more into the Mask Of Time and have that as a set in 2018.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Scarilian

[TheBrickPal]

Can we please stop talking about the Vahi/time theories for now? It's annoying and just causing fights.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Puffle Pal26