Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Gatanui]

As I said, the sets in the second image were in order, so I'm positive the small sets are the Defenders. I find it highly unlikely that they are Element Lords considering in-story they are transformed Glatorian and large.

Kopaka and Tahu and even Lewa hint at the Mata designs, so I'm thinking this is a reboot unless LEGO somehow changed the golden armor story in 2010 so that they were all changed back by the Ignika. Kopaka face looks to me like the 01 Akaku.

As well, I do think there may be small spiders in each Toa set, you can see them in the corners of the box.

BUT as I stated the left most set in the middle of the 1st image (beside Lewa) is NOT Gali despite the leaker stating it was blue. So I think we may have more Villain sets in the 7079x range.

Interesting. Story-wise, it would actually make some sense for the Ignika to revert all the Toa Nuva back to their original forms so the first Toa who'd have the chance the wear the Golden Armor could do so and not just Tahu.

-Gata

[Kingslayer]

I hope the Toa won't be drastically different sizes, although it does look like it.

[King of Nynrah]

If it is a reboot, I wonder if Akamai and Wairuha will also return. They could look slightly less awkward with the new building system, and it would be another incentive to buy multiple sets...

[toatali]

I hope the Toa won't be drastically different sizes, although it does look like it.

Yeah, with Hero Factory they had the excuse of 'XL' robots, but it will be weird for Kopaka to be so much larger than Gali...

[CabooseBM]

Unless it's a reboot and they decide to swap genders around.

I mean, that's what I'd do if I were in charge.

[Kingslayer]

Yeah, with Hero Factory they had the excuse of 'XL' robots, but it will be weird for Kopaka to be so much larger than Gali...

At least XL only had one big. This is half the team.

[Aanchir]

I mean, that's what I'd do if I were in charge.

It doesn't even have to be a true reboot for them to do that, necessarily. I've always thought it'd be cool if a revived BIONICLE did like the Legend of Zelda so often does, so have the same continuity as existing games but having brand-new incarnations of the characters. So you'd have a Tahu, a Gali, a Lewa, but they might not be the SAME Tahu, Gali, and Lewa as the original BIONICLE. I think it'd be a bit liberating, yet it wouldn't leave people who enjoyed the original series feeling like the new story was taking the place of the original. Names in BIONICLE were never gender-specific, so there's no reason a new Tahu or Kopaka would have to be the same gender as the original Tahu and Kopaka. Elements were gender-specific, for the most part, but I'm sure the writers could find away around that if they wanted to, especially if calling Lewa "Master of Jungle" does describe an actual change in his element (though I don't really want that — as unintuitive as it is for green to represent air, I wouldn't want air to stop being one of the main elements).

Sadly, I don't think it's all that likely for the LEGO Group to change the genders of the characters appearing in these sets. The story-driven themes since BIONICLE ended haven't really been any better with gender diversity than BIONICLE was, after all. Chima has fairly diverse female characters, but there are still only eight female characters out of the 59 characters appearing as minifigures — less than one female character for every six male characters. So expecting better gender ratios in the sets might be more than we can hope for, at least at the start.

Still, what's more important to me than the gender ratios in the sets is the way gender ratios were codified in the story. I strongly dislike the way gender was tied strictly to element. It's a stupid rule to impose on a whole species, especially in a LEGO franchise where you want to encourage fans to be creative. Shouldn't fans be able to give their original Toa and Matoran characters whatever sort of appearance and powers they want regardless of gender? Chima, Hero Factory, and Ninjago offer fans at least that much creative freedom — there are no arbitrary rules of "this tribe is all male" or "this is a female power". So if the official story does away with that rule, that alone will be an improvement in my book, even if the sets themselves still only have one female character for every five male characters.

[Shakar]

I hope the Toa won't be drastically different sizes, although it does look like it.

I don't mind it that much really. More "Titans" mean more designs to draw inspiration from. Plus Onua is likely going to be a nice parts pack for black shells.

And, thanks to the CCBS, rebuilding them into mid size figures shouldn't be hard.

And I forgot about the small spiders featured in each set- if those are the Skull Spiders and the full size one is the "Lord"..that's pretty underwhelming. There's that unknown blue set, but since she doesn't seem to fit into anything I'm going to guess she's a prototype Gali.

[Aanchir]

I don't want the Toa to be drastically different sizes, and I wouldn't want any of the Toa to be the size of a $20 set, but I wouldn't complain about getting $5 "Matoran" and a mix of $10 and $15 "Toa". Just look at the Hero Factory sets from Brain Attack. The $10 heroes were only one module (8mm) shorter than the $13 heroes, despite the sets having different piece counts. That's a smaller difference than with the Toa Metru, who were all at the SAME price point but differed in height by up to two modules. I think you could easily do the same thing with Toa — some could be slightly taller, more muscular, and have more elaborate tools/weapons to justify a higher price, but the overall height would not need to be much different.

[Kingslayer]

I don't mind it that much really. More "Titans" mean more designs to draw inspiration from. Plus Onua is likely going to be a nice parts pack for black shells.

And, thanks to the CCBS, rebuilding them into mid size figures shouldn't be hard.

And I forgot about the small spiders featured in each set- if those are the Skull Spiders and the full size one is the "Lord"..that's pretty underwhelming. There's that unknown blue set, but since she doesn't seem to fit into anything I'm going to guess she's a prototype Gali.

True. Let's hope masks aren't to big to be used but they don't look it. Oh well. Should be interesting non the less.

[Kalhiki]

As for the possibility of Mata forms returning, don't they still have their Adaptive Armor? If this is a continuation, perhaps their armor altered into new forms that look like their original designs.

Though, didn't someone say Lewa had gold on him? And if Kopaka was mistaken for Takanuve due to the presence of gold, perhaps they have all new Golden Armor.

And I hope the Toa aren't too big. The size of a normal HF Hero would be good. Even slightly taller would be fine. But I don't want to pay $20/$25 for half the team. If that is the case, I hope the parts are used to bulk up the sets rather than make them taller.

Hopeful thinking, maybe. Luckily CCBS is easy to modify.

[Aanchir]

As for the possibility of Mata forms returning, don't they still have their Adaptive Armor? If this is a continuation, perhaps their armor altered into new forms that look like their original designs.

Though, didn't someone say Lewa had gold on him? And if Kopaka was mistaken for Takanuve due to the presence of gold, perhaps they have all new Golden Armor.

And I hope the Toa aren't too big. The size of a normal HF Hero would be good. Even slightly taller would be fine. But I don't want to pay $20/$25 for half the team. If that is the case, I hope the parts are used to bulk up the sets rather than make them taller.

Hopeful thinking, maybe. Luckily CCBS is easy to modify.

I just think setting up titan-sized Toa as the default versions of certain characters would be kind of pointless, even detrimental. Not only would they be more expensive, but it'd be next to impossible to release a lot of larger villains to oppose them without the prices rising dramatically. Even BIONICLE pretty much never had sets more expensive than $30 except for certain Rahi and vehicles, and most titans were just $20. I agree that figures similar in size to a typical Hero Factory hero (around seven inches or eighteen centimeters) would be ideal.

[the last chronicler]

I'm hoping the large sets are more expensive due to having more parts and detail, and less so because they are taller. On the other hand maybe lego thinks the Toa will sell better as large sets as they are 'classic'.

What Lego took too long to figure out was to have the same Hero's every year. It saves them money on names and they can use the same masks. Maybe Lego intends to do this Bionicle, meaning will get titans of the other 3 Toa later.

If this is a sequel that could be another excuse to use the adaptive armor: have all the characters change based on the years theme but keep the same name (and possible the same masks) for the six Toa.

[davidr]

Interesting. Story-wise, it would actually make some sense for the Ignika to revert all the Toa Nuva back to their original forms so the first Toa who'd have the chance the wear the Golden Armor could do so and not just Tahu.

-Gata

Well, Mata Nui in Ignika removed all mutations and Toa Nuva are kinda mutated, but then EP is different from most of the MU as it's the original substance... Lets just say it would be nice

[Lord-Vorahk]

Still, what's more important to me than the gender ratios in the sets is the way gender ratios were codified in the story. I strongly dislike the way gender was tied strictly to element. It's a stupid rule to impose on a whole species, especially in a LEGO franchise where you want to encourage fans to be creative. Shouldn't fans be able to give their original Toa and Matoran characters whatever sort of appearance and powers they want regardless of gender? Chima, Hero Factory, and Ninjago offer fans at least that much creative freedom — there are no arbitrary rules of "this tribe is all male" or "this is a female power". So if the official story does away with that rule, that alone will be an improvement in my book, even if the sets themselves still only have one female character for every five male characters.

This. All of the this.

It always bothered me when one of the tribes got slapped with a set gender. IIRC, the Av- and Kra-Matoran were the only ones with both genders within them. And what really didn't help was that all of the female exclusive elements got a blue colour scheme, limiting people even further. Want to make a female Toa? Well, she has to be blue. And because of that, you're likely to make her with a Faxon, because the noble Komau has silver on it, which might clash, and the other dark blue masks are all rather manly, or belong to Makuta. Males and females of all elements, please.

Then again, if we can headcanon/fanon that Hewkii and Macku are still a thing (Probably Jaller and Hahli too), then we can headcanon/fanon gender diversity in tribes, right?

[Kalhiki]

Well, there's always Glatorian and Agori which have both genders regardless of tribes.

[Bob C]

Although titans are great, I personally wouldn't enjoy differently sized toa. The first few waves had all sets almost EXACTLY the same, which would be boring with a theme like HF, but since Bionicle had a bunch of auxiliary characters the sameness wasn't detrimental. I think they'd lose their "team" image if they were random sizes.

I wonder who LEGO is trying to attract with the reboot. Would it be more profitable to get new fans or to catch the old fans who are loyal to the series? I would buy a new set regardless of how good it is, just because the whole thing is so nostalgic...

[Loki]

I wonder who LEGO is trying to attract with the reboot. Would it be more profitable to get new fans or to catch the old fans who are loyal to the series? I would buy a new set regardless of how good it is, just because the whole thing is so nostalgic...

I would imagine new fans, since the line likely has a target age group and a lot of the older fans of the previous series likely grew out of that target group (like, I don't see them really trying to keep close ties to the extremely convoluted previous story, nor do I see them trying to make the series nitty/gritty/dark 'n edgy again [i think they pulled out of that near the end of the old series? I didn't pay much attention past 2007 tbh] just to appeal to a sorta... side demographic [older fans of the series]). I could see them doing like, little homages and references and stuff, but for the bulk of things I'm imagining they would rather have new fans and would want to appeal to their target age demographic first.

[Transparency for Effect]

This. All of the this.

It always bothered me when one of the tribes got slapped with a set gender. IIRC, the Av- and Kra-Matoran were the only ones with both genders within them. And what really didn't help was that all of the female exclusive elements got a blue colour scheme, limiting people even further. Want to make a female Toa? Well, she has to be blue. And because of that, you're likely to make her with a Faxon, because the noble Komau has silver on it, which might clash, and the other dark blue masks are all rather manly, or belong to Makuta. Males and females of all elements, please.

Then again, if we can headcanon/fanon that Hewkii and Macku are still a thing (Probably Jaller and Hahli too), then we can headcanon/fanon gender diversity in tribes, right?

Yeah, if they can say those Matoran go either way gender-wise, and recton the romance, they can pretty much recton the whole one gendered tribe thing. In fact I think someone pointed out that Matorans not quite questioning Vezok being a male Toa of Water and they seeing that as normal counts as male (or trans, if you want to go the Tumblr route XD) Toas of Water existing.

Just a crazy idea, but does anyone think it might be a little good that females were less feminised because it doesn't make them sexualized or objectified in that manner, or does that cancel out?

Since when are there rules on head canon or not? If we want, we could headcanon that Emmet is an alternative universe variant of Vezon because they both get hunted for things accidentally attached to them.

If there truly is new Bionicles, I hope they still make awesome Titans like they used to (like Gadunka, Maxilos & Spinax and Jetrax T6). If they can manage to make the Hero Factory system do that, then that'd be really great.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Transparency for Effect

[TheGreatSpirit]

Uh you guys are forgetting something: Bionicle's target audience are boys. There is NO REASON for there to be an equal amount of boys and girls if the mast majority of buyers are boys. Why do you guys care so much about the female/male difference in a toy line about robots fighting other robots?

EDIT: 101st post, woot!

Edited July 15, 2014 by TheGreatSpirit

[Lord-Vorahk]

Yeah, if they can say those Matoran go either way gender-wise, and recton the romance, they can pretty much recton the whole one gendered tribe thing. In fact I think someone pointed out that Matorans not quite questioning Vezok being a male Toa of Water and they seeing that as normal counts as male (or trans, if you want to go the Tumblr route XD) Toas of Water existing.

Just a crazy idea, but does anyone think it might be a little good that females were less feminised because it doesn't make them sexualized or objectified in that manner, or does that cancel out?

Since when are there rules on head canon or not? If we want, we could headcanon that Emmet is an alternative universe variant of Vezon because they both get hunted for things accidentally attached to them.

If there truly is new Bionicles, I hope they still make awesome Titans like they used to (like Gadunka, Maxilos & Spinax and Jetrax T6). If they can manage to make the Hero Factory system do that, then that'd be really great.

You can't really make the female characters less feminine than they already are. Seriously, they all look like men. How many of you thought Gali was a guy before you read some of the story material? Because I did. And Gali Mata is one of the most feminine-looking female characters in the whole line.

[Loki]

Uh you guys are forgetting something: Bionicle's target audience are boys. There is NO REASON for there to be an equal amount of boys and girls if the mast majority of buyers are boys. Why do you guys care so much about the female/male difference in a toy line about robots fighting other robots?

Despite what gender it was specifically marketed towards (honestly, there are so many female fans of Bionicle I feel like this point really shouldn't be relevant), but yeah there is a reason -- For fans who are not boys to identify with characters, so that other boys can see female characters as just as worthy of praise and respect as male characters, so that there's some more balance to the incredibly uneven casts. Like, I'll say again that there are non-male fans of Bionicle and they're just as important as the male fans. (In the end, I don't see how, at all, it would be a negative thing in the least to add some dimensional, interesting and respectable and original female characters -- let alone just removing monogender tribes.)

Edited July 15, 2014 by Loki

[King of Nynrah]

Despite what gender it was specifically marketed towards (honestly, there are so many female fans of Bionicle I feel like this point really shouldn't be relevant), but yeah there is a reason -- For fans who are not boys to identify with characters, so that other boys can see female characters as just as worthy of praise and respect as male characters, so that there's some more balance to the incredibly uneven casts. Like, I'll say again that there are non-male fans of Bionicle and they're just as important as the male fans. (In the end, I don't see how, at all, it would be a negative thing in the least to add some dimensional, interesting and respectable and original female characters -- let alone just removing monogender tribes.)

What monogender tribes? Glatorian and Agori are canonically capable of biological reproduction, and each tribe has both male and female members (although we've only ever seen one female in story for some reason).

As for your point about female fans... what? I've been a hardcore Bionicle fan since 2007, and never once met a female fan online. I think maybe there were one or two on BZP back in the day who were artists, but that's about it.

It's not just Bionicle that has a seriously smaller amount of female characters, it's virtually every LEGO theme ever created with the exception of deliberately "girly" themes such as Friends. That's why they exist - LEGO believe that girls are more likely to buy stereotypically girly products than themes like Bionicle that are about warring alien creatures. It's not sexist, it's a sound business strategy that has proven itself time and time again (okay, maybe it is a little bit sexist, but that doesn't stop the money coming in).

Edited July 15, 2014 by King of Nynrah

[TheGreatSpirit]

Loki, Bionicle is aimed at young boys. The VERY few girls who are fans of it are NOT the target audience. Why do some of you feel the need to bring tumblr-like SJW stuff into a discussion about a toy line from out childhood returning?

Edited July 15, 2014 by TheGreatSpirit

[Loki]

What monogender tribes? Glatorian and Agori are canonically capable of biological reproduction, and each tribe has both male and female members (although we've only ever seen one female in story for some reason).

As for your point about female fans... what? I've been a hardcore Bionicle fan since 2007, and never once met a female fan online. I think maybe there were one or two on BZP back in the day who were artists, but that's about it.

It's not just Bionicle that has a seriously smaller amount of female characters, it's virtually every LEGO theme ever created with the exception of deliberately "girly" themes such as Friends. That's why they exist - LEGO believe that girls are more likely to buy stereotypically girly products than themes like Bionicle that are about warring alien creatures. It's not sexist, it's a sound business strategy that has proven itself time and time again (okay, maybe it is a little bit sexist, but that doesn't stop the money coming in).

Monogender tribes being every single tribe pre-Bara Magna (barring like... two? Light and one other, but those tribes were never featured prominently and no actual characters came from them, really).

You are also objectively incorrect on the BZPower front. Like, I know at least 13 non-male fans of Bionicle from there out a pool of maybe 20 or so people I know total and there are tons more than that over there -- probably even over here, too. (Official Girls Corner was also a thing)

Either way, just because something is a "boys" line doesn't mean female characters can't exist in it (or will sell poorly), it might even bring in more female fans since they'll have actual characters they can identify with in the series, opening up the series to a wider audience.

EDIT:

@GreatSpirit: I'm not bringing in whatever tumblr thing you're on about, I just mentioned a preference for having a larger female presence in a series I enjoy as the series was lacking in a lot of female characters to identify with. (Which doesn't really matter whether something's aimed at boys or not? It's not like the majority of the fans of the previous series followed the story as much as the people on BZP, who were definitely not the majority of fans).

Edited July 15, 2014 by Loki