Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Aethersprite]

I'd love it if they did away with the "rule of 6", personally, but then again it didn't work out too well for Hero Factory... as long as the characters wouldn't fall by the wayside, it'd be good.

I mean, to the common consumer at this point BIONiCLE is a pretty unknown quantity; throw out the rulebook, I say, write a new one.

'Rule of 6' - that's a good one! I chuckled quite a bit reading that. Anyway, I don't see what's wrong with it - I think it's a pretty good number, actually. It's worked for both Bionicle and HF (up till 2011, at least) - not too large a number but still keeping the team compact. Plus, it's a nice number to have a team on display on a shelf! I've never bought an entire wave of sets before, if Bionicle is returning, I might find myself buying the entire first wave.

[Transparency for Effect]

Six of one! But I don't know, there should be a thick line between helpful rewriting and alienating older fans by removing certain traditions. Honestly, for the rule of six thing unless it's something like the Matoran, if it's not broken don't fix it.

[Dorek]

It's not broken, per se, I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that HF couldn't quite manage their team numbers by the end of it (then again, they were working with 9, so it's not too surprising). Just that it gets a bit unwieldy in the story when having to deal with that many; it worked in the earlier years, where each individual had something to do, but some of the later stories suffered by not having enough time to devote to everyone (I'm looking at you, 2009).

[Lord-Vorahk]

09 had the issue that it had too many large groups. Three of the canister sets were army builders, one of the small sets was, one of the "titans" was, and one of the serials had to be devoted to the actual main characters struggling to get by in the Makutaverse. The fact that Bara Magna itself wasn't a particularly interesting or immersive location didn't help, and in the end, was following up the Battle of Karda Nui, Mata Nui rising, and Teridax's "I am the ground you walk on" speech with "Forget that, here are some random powerless guys with exploding spudguns in a desert, enjoy" ever going to be a good story idea? Hell, Biosector01's icon for 09 is the Mask of Shadows, not a Thornax or anything BM-related.

Yeah, if something like Reign of Shadows happens in Bionicle 2.0, let's hope the story stays focused on that.

[MakutaDreadscythe]

09 had the issue that it had too many large groups. Three of the canister sets were army builders, one of the small sets was, one of the "titans" was, and one of the serials had to be devoted to the actual main characters struggling to get by in the Makutaverse. The fact that Bara Magna itself wasn't a particularly interesting or immersive location didn't help, and in the end, was following up the Battle of Karda Nui, Mata Nui rising, and Teridax's "I am the ground you walk on" speech with "Forget that, here are some random powerless guys with exploding spudguns in a desert, enjoy" ever going to be a good story idea? Hell, Biosector01's icon for 09 is the Mask of Shadows, not a Thornax or anything BM-related.

Yeah, if something like Reign of Shadows happens in Bionicle 2.0, let's hope the story stays focused on that.

It's not that they had too many large groups really, more that they didn't do a very good job of making Bara Magna an interesting place. Mata Nui was interesting because it was an island setting. It was somewhat relatable and had a lot of interesting locales. Each element had their own setting and it helped differentiate everything. Bara Magna was a desert, and not a very interesting one at that. I mean, yeah, there were snowy mountains and volcanoes, but we didn't really see that, just lots of arenas and sand. I almost expect that one guy from the SW prequels to give us an essay on why he doesn't like sand.

[TwistLaw]

I almost expect that one guy from the SW prequels to give us an essay on why he doesn't like sand.

Pleb detected.

[Master_Data]

The fact that Bara Magna itself wasn't a particularly interesting or immersive location didn't help, and in the end, was following up the Battle of Karda Nui, Mata Nui rising, and Teridax's "I am the ground you walk on" speech with "Forget that, here are some random powerless guys with exploding spudguns in a desert, enjoy" ever going to be a good story idea? Hell, Biosector01's icon for 09 is the Mask of Shadows, not a Thornax or anything BM-related.

Sort of related...Does anyone know how well HF is selling? I recently walked into a store and found they were still selling HF wave one...from Brain Attack!

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Pleb detected.

Now now, I know you can't understand the joke, but try and keep it clean. Especially towards me. Cos you know, I don't really appreciate being called a pleb.

[Aanchir]

Sort of related...Does anyone know how well HF is selling? I recently walked into a store and found they were still selling HF wave one...from Brain Attack!

Hard to judge just from anecdotal evidence. At some of my local stores it seems to be selling quite well — some of them can't even keep all of this year's sets on the shelves. Though that could just mean they understocked them. I imagine the hype surrounding the LEGO Movie has probably had a big impact on all LEGO sales, not just the sales of sets and themes featured in the movie itself.

None of us has sales figures for the whole theme. The people most qualified to answer are people who work in retail, and even they can only really speak to the sales at their particular store.

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Hard to judge just from anecdotal evidence. At some of my local stores it seems to be selling quite well — some of them can't even keep all of this year's sets on the shelves. Though that could just mean they understocked them. I imagine the hype surrounding the LEGO Movie has probably had a big impact on all LEGO sales, not just the sales of sets and themes featured in the movie itself.

None of us has sales figures for the whole theme. The people most qualified to answer are people who work in retail, and even they can only really speak to the sales at their particular store.

How peculiar. I did walk into a toy store about a month back and they still had a few Voltix sets left. I guess his fabulous colour scheme didn't appeal to everyone.

[Gatanui]

It's not that they had too many large groups really, more that they didn't do a very good job of making Bara Magna an interesting place. Mata Nui was interesting because it was an island setting. It was somewhat relatable and had a lot of interesting locales. Each element had their own setting and it helped differentiate everything. Bara Magna was a desert, and not a very interesting one at that. I mean, yeah, there were snowy mountains and volcanoes, but we didn't really see that, just lots of arenas and sand. I almost expect that one guy from the SW prequels to give us an essay on why he doesn't like sand.

I suppose we would have seen more if the theme had lasted longer. Though it's true Mata Nui featured many more and much more interesting settings from the beginning.

-Gata

[Lord-Vorahk]

The two supermarkets and single toy shop in my town don't have any HF at all. I've never seen a 2014 set in the flesh (Plastic?). Then again, that toy store did have Classics Mirage (from 2006), Movie Fracture (2007) and Universe Starscream (2008) among the Transformers on offer, alongside the standard shelfwarming Beast Hunters Arcee and Screamer, so they evidently don't get much in the way of new stuff. I'd need to get myself to the nearest city to scope out whether IFB is shelfwarming over there.

HF seems to have made a similar faux pas to BIONICLE in 09. Both of them had an event occur that was a real game changer, and then decided to ignore it and do something else for at least two years. With BIONICLE, it was the Makutaverse twist, with HF, it was the Breakout. All these villains escape, and yes, the escapees who already had sets are all dealt with, but Nebula escapes and is putting together a "villain factory". Sounds interesting, we can get dark copies of the heroes, we can have something of an overarcing plot, Vonnie can get elbows... and then... "Hey guys, have some mind controlled animals and hero sets that look like downgrades, not to mention here's all that silver that you loved so much in BIONICLE's waning days!" ANd after that? Pacific Rim... with robots! Er, smaller robots. Smaller smaller robots. Robots in robots. Added that the Mechs look like a step down from what we got with Exo-Force, more like Baby's First Battlesuit than something that could actually kill a kaiju.... Hello? Von Nebula? Villain Factory? The plot? Any of those still kicking?

Plus the budget evidently slipping away from HF... Put it this way, when I found out that the Stars were Bionicle's end, there was no larger wave to finish the story properly, no set forms for the MU Robot and the prototype, that was just it, I was shocked. If they announced that this was HF's last year, or they were going to do a sendoff wave next year, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

[TwistLaw]

Now now, I know you can't understand the joke, but try and keep it clean. Especially towards me. Cos you know, I don't really appreciate being called a pleb.

I perfectly got the reference, and mentioning that way Anakin didn't sound all that funny IMHO, but really like someone who remembers vaguely what he's talking about.

But c'mon, chill out, the pleb/patrician thing is one of the oldest concepts of the internet, no weird offence behind that really, a cup of tea won't hurt some people in here (beginning from myself, finals are killing me :wacko: )

Edited July 16, 2014 by TwistLaw

[Transparency for Effect]

The two supermarkets and single toy shop in my town don't have any HF at all. I've never seen a 2014 set in the flesh (Plastic?). Then again, that toy store did have Classics Mirage (from 2006), Movie Fracture (2007) and Universe Starscream (2008) among the Transformers on offer, alongside the standard shelfwarming Beast Hunters Arcee and Screamer, so they evidently don't get much in the way of new stuff. I'd need to get myself to the nearest city to scope out whether IFB is shelfwarming over there.

HF seems to have made a similar faux pas to BIONICLE in 09. Both of them had an event occur that was a real game changer, and then decided to ignore it and do something else for at least two years. With BIONICLE, it was the Makutaverse twist, with HF, it was the Breakout. All these villains escape, and yes, the escapees who already had sets are all dealt with, but Nebula escapes and is putting together a "villain factory". Sounds interesting, we can get dark copies of the heroes, we can have something of an overarcing plot, Vonnie can get elbows... and then... "Hey guys, have some mind controlled animals and hero sets that look like downgrades, not to mention here's all that silver that you loved so much in BIONICLE's waning days!" ANd after that? Pacific Rim... with robots! Er, smaller robots. Smaller smaller robots. Robots in robots. Added that the Mechs look like a step down from what we got with Exo-Force, more like Baby's First Battlesuit than something that could actually kill a kaiju.... Hello? Von Nebula? Villain Factory? The plot? Any of those still kicking?

Plus the budget evidently slipping away from HF... Put it this way, when I found out that the Stars were Bionicle's end, there was no larger wave to finish the story properly, no set forms for the MU Robot and the prototype, that was just it, I was shocked. If they announced that this was HF's last year, or they were going to do a sendoff wave next year, I wouldn't be surprised at all.

Unless you count altered Titan Toa Mata Nui:

http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Eman477/TitanMataNui/headchange.jpg

[davidr]

I'd love it if they did away with the "rule of 6", personally, but then again it didn't work out too well for Hero Factory... as long as the characters wouldn't fall by the wayside, it'd be good.

I mean, to the common consumer at this point BIONiCLE is a pretty unknown quantity; throw out the rulebook, I say, write a new one.

Intentional Star Wars book reference? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Bane:_Rule_of_Two

Anyway, HF has no story, that's a fact now, it's only an episode on TV once a year with no connection to the previous ones. I can only say I won't cry if they won't produce it anymore.

[Vinyl Scratch]

Anyway, HF has no story, that's a fact now, it's only an episode on TV once a year with no connection to the previous ones. I can only say I won't cry if they won't produce it anymore.

Thaaaat was kind of the point. Since day one LEGO has said that Hero Factory wasn't meant to have a continuous story, it was meant to be various themes that weren't related to each other. But they reaaaaally messed up with the cliffhangers, I really hate that they added them and that we'll never see their conclusion.

[Leewan]

Since day one LEGO has said that Hero Factory wasn't meant to have a continuous story, it was meant to be various themes that weren't related to each other.

Which is a good idea, IMO, and a good way to differentiate from Bionicle. The best part about this is that a kid who discovers Hero Factory in 2014 won't need to know what happened the previous years, and don't need it to enjoy his toy. It's not that easy with Bionicle. I wasn't aware of the whole storyline when I was a kid, and when I saw in 2005 that the Toa Hordika were "Half Beast - Half Toa", I was confused, because I had no idea it was possible to mutate a Toa. And the next year, I learned that Jaller&co had been transformed into Toa by the Red Star. Wait, which Red Star ? And don't Matoran need a Toa Stone to become a Toa ? So... I like the choice they made. BTW, it can be used as a way to run HF and Bionicle at the same time : a deeper and longer storyline for Bionicle, and the same annual and individual story arcs for HF.

[Still Raindrop]

Oh, man, I'm way more excited about this than I should be. I was Bionicle-obsessed from 2001-2003 (I followed 2004 a bit, and picked back up in 2009), and something about those early years always felt magical to me, and continues to influence my fiction writing to this day (though I can't say I'm a fan of lots of the later story stuff). If it is returning, I'm excited enough that I'll buy some of the sets. Especially if it's a reboot, which could be done very well (especially since Lego now knows what some of the problems were with later years, and can rectify that from the beginning).

Back in the day, I was always a bit disappointed that there weren't that many Matoran sets, and what you could get was limited to a few main characters. If they release Matoran sets, there's a great way to make it easier for people to make a whole village: release Kanohi packs, as in 2001, but have one mask be color-coded for Matoran. Not only would this increase collectibility without having to make too many near-identical sets, but it could be a practical way to include more female characters. If the monogender tribe deal isn't in this canon (and I was a bit disappointed when it was placed into canon, since I liked to imagine that there were male Ga-Matoran and females of other tribes), then you have the possibility of introducing lots more female characters without switching the gender of the six Toa.

Whatever happens, I'm excited. I haven't bought any Lego action figures for years, but if this rumor is true (and it seems to be), then I'll definitely buy some. Heck, I may end up buying all six and keeping them on my desk at work. I had no idea I would be this excited!

Edited July 17, 2014 by Mariko

[Kalhiki]

So. As part of my Bionicle-is-Back Media Marathon, I just finished up the MNOG. And there's something I noticed that I hope they do next year:

In MNOG, there was a massive amount of foreshadowing. I mean, they basically flat out tell you that Mata Nui is asleep under the island. And hint at Takua becoming a Toa. If Bionicle has as much of an immersive story as it did back in the day, I really hope we get some good foreshadowing.

[the last chronicler]

I just want to say that the Bionicle story is a double-edged sword. While its complexity made it hard for new customers to join in, I wouldn't be surprised if more customers stayed around because of it-- even into the dark ages. Maybe Hero Factory is declining more quickly then Bionicle, and LEGO realizes they need to find a way to maintain customers over a long time (and across various ages) that is a balance of maintaining story but keeping it straight forward enough for anyone to join in. My hope is part of them achieving this is through focusing on the Toa Mata for the lines run (or for at least more than three years).

[Timeline15]

I never liked how HF suck with the same team for the entire run. It's not like they used that time to develop their characters, as they didn't have any. preferred Bionicle's way, changing toa teams every few years. Thy were all characters that were present in the first year anyway. The HF story never felt wide enough. " oh yeah, there are hundreds of heroes, but you'll only see these 9". I was getting sick of the alpha team by the end. I don't want to get sick of the Mata too.

[MakutaDreadscythe]

Guys, not that LEGO would do this, but I think I have thought of a brilliant idea to improve the CCBS.

Expanding upon my idea of putting minifig bars on the sides of the shells. This motif would be spread for various sizes of shell, most notably 5 long and torso shells. This has multiple purposes.

1. For Bionicle this means the return of the piston aesthetic that defined it.
   
2. Allowing further integration with LEGO system, something that LEGO action figures struggle with somewhat.
   
3. Another new piece could be introduced. A flat version of said shell piece with no ball connection and two minifig clips on each side corresponding to the bars on the shell. This would mean back coverage would no longer be an issue and due to the generic nature of the piece could be used in system sets as well, for example the bonnet of a sci fi car or as plating for a more system-oriented mech.
   

One could argue that this would devalue the original shell, but the old shells still have the advantage of a clean look and can be used where the new shells would be redundant or to save costs, for example upper arms/legs or on the back of a creature build, like say a dragon or turtle.

[TwistLaw]

How peculiar. I did walk into a toy store about a month back and they still had a few Voltix sets left. I guess his fabulous colour scheme didn't appeal to everyone.

I think Voltix single handed took the title of worst colour scheme of any LEGO constraction figure.

Including Galidnngghh.

[TheOneVeyronian]

How peculiar. I did walk into a toy store about a month back and they still had a few Voltix sets left. I guess his fabulous colour scheme didn't appeal to everyone.

Even now I can go online and buy a Voltix set for 40% off it's original RRP. There was just too much going on in that set, I could literally hear the colours having a mass argument with each other But, at least it provided me with some more purple parts for me to make a purple version of my usual sigfig

Guys, not that LEGO would do this, but I think I have thought of a brilliant idea to improve the CCBS.

Expanding upon my idea of putting minifig bars on the sides of the shells. This motif would be spread for various sizes of shell, most notably 5 long and torso shells. This has multiple purposes.

1. For Bionicle this means the return of the piston aesthetic that defined it.
   
2. Allowing further integration with LEGO system, something that LEGO action figures struggle with somewhat.
   
3. Another new piece could be introduced. A flat version of said shell piece with no ball connection and two minifig clips on each side corresponding to the bars on the shell. This would mean back coverage would no longer be an issue and due to the generic nature of the piece could be used in system sets as well, for example the bonnet of a sci fi car or as plating for a more system-oriented mech.
   

One could argue that this would devalue the original shell, but the old shells still have the advantage of a clean look and can be used where the new shells would be redundant or to save costs, for example upper arms/legs or on the back of a creature build, like say a dragon or turtle.

It took me a while to get my head around this, but I quite like this idea. Fully closed shells? Yes please. More connection points like bars and clips on existing shells? Oh yes, I dare say that a couple of such pieces may even have improved the mechs we got this year with HF. We saw it a little with Brain Attack torsos, but even then the new connection points were quite hard to use.

[Kingslayer]

It's not broken, per se, I guess I'm just a bit disappointed that HF couldn't quite manage their team numbers by the end of it (then again, they were working with 9, so it's not too surprising). Just that it gets a bit unwieldy in the story when having to deal with that many; it worked in the earlier years, where each individual had something to do, but some of the later stories suffered by not having enough time to devote to everyone (I'm looking at you, 2009).

I think it just shows that teams should be kept small. Around six or seven. At least to start with. If LEGO do decide to keep just one team(Which I hope they dont) they can always add more characters along the way.

Edited July 17, 2014 by Kingslayer